Graycap23 said:

[Edited 4/19/09 14:50pm]

1950's--Chuck Berry, Elvis, Little Richard
1960's--Motown, the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix
1970s'--Stevie Wonder, Queen, Elton John
1980's--Prince, MJ, Madonna
1990's--Nirvana, Mariah Carey, Tupac
2000's--Shitney Spears, Eminem, Beyonce

Personally, I think the term 'Icon' is used waaay to loosely nowadays. For me, there are two types of icons: 'Pop Icons' and 'Real Icons'. For an artist/entertainer to get either of these titles, they would have to be in the public eye and/or biz for at least 10 years...yes, I have "Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame" qualifications before I start handing out titles.

'Pop Icons' are the ones who have little to no real hardcore talents, yet are known throughout the world based largely on their images. 'Real Icons' are the...well, real icons, meaning they are also known throughout the world, but actually have the talent to back their images. In the future, if an artist/entertainer is still able to make great music and/or sing their asses off without having to rely on excessive cosmetic surgery to keep the image fresh and all the theatrics (ie dancing, when they really can't do it anymore, and that shock value shit), than I consider that to be a 'Real Icon'.

Talent first; image second. It's like a birthday present. The talent is the actual gift and the image is the wrapping paper. Personally, I want what's in the box; fuck the fancy wrapping paper. If there's a good gift inside, you can wrap it in newspaper and it wouldn't matter none to me.

Sadly, 98% of the artists that are being called 'Icons' nowadays are just weak copies of original icons anyways, and many of these originals are still very much alive and can still out-perform most of these peons without breaking a hardcore sweat....Tina Turner outshining Beyonce at last years Grammys comes to mind here and she's over 50 years older than Bey. Don't even get me started on how Madonna could wipe the floor with Britney while wearing a blindfold and with one arm tied behind her back...back in the day, she would have buried Ms. Spears, but nowadays, she's taken on being nice to her little biters...aww, so sweet.

If I had to name some 'Pop Icons' off the top of my head, they would be:

Paris Hilton, who does have an album and is supposedly working on her follow-up now. She is also a big deal in Japan and has been for years now....for some oddball reason. She's made being famous for nothing a staple in the entertainment biz and is the reason for all these equally talentless morons who seem to be popping up everywhere nowadays...she should be slapped repeatedly just for doing this,

Jennifer Lopez, who changed husbands like people change their underwear, yet brought curves back to a stick-thin worshipping Hollywood. She is one of the first female entertainers to actually take endorsments to the next level by turning herself into a fully-functioning brand. She's an actress, singer, dancer, restauranteur, fashion designer (with 2 clothing labels under her belt), and has her own fragrance lines...something that she was doing before Britney and Beyonce jumped on the 'let me put my name on everything and get paid' bandwagon. She's a pop icon...as much as that hurts me to admit, because I still don't like J. No; her hiatus has helped in softening my distaste for her. Here's to hoping that she remains on hiatus permanently ,

Lindsay Lohan, who was a huge child star and had a few albums that did very well. She needs to just have that public meltdown so she can start on her comeback. She can use that "I was a child star and had a fucked up family" excuse and the masses will feel sorry for her and support her, just like they did with Britney ,

Diddy or whatever he calls himself today, he'll sell anything. Dude, would probably try to sell you your own soul if you gave him that open window of opportunity just long enough. He's a smart business man; nothing more, nothing less.

Jessica Simpson, who used to sing quite nicely before she started screaming on the majority of her songs. Her reality show made her a household name and helped her album sales. She also helped spawn her sister's musical career, which, oddly enough, ended up netting her 3 hit albums and a new nose,

And of course,

Britney Spears, who has been a glorified puppet since her first song dropped IMO. She still should be thanking TLC for rejecting the song, because that was originally who it was written for. The only reason I will call her a 'Pop Icon' is because she managed to last for 10 years based mostly on an over-sexed image and outstanding songwriters, producers, choreographers, stylists, and the guy who pushes the 'Play' button before all her 'Live' shows. These people are the ones who really do the majority of the real hardwork that she gets to slap her name on...lucky girl. She's an 'Image with a really good soundtrack', always was and probably always will be...still waiting for her to prove me wrong.

As for some current 'Real Icons', I'd have to say:

Justin Timberlake, who is still growing as a producer and is one of the few artists to have success after leaving a very successful group...not exactly an easy feat. Even though the majority of the .org doesn't like him, dude is working hard at bettering himself instead of relying on others to do the majority of the hardwork for him. He has an active hand in all of his endeavors...I respect that.

P!nk, who refused to continue to be a puppet after her first album and re-invented herself because she wanted to do it even after her managers and label disagreed with her. She may have lost a large amount of her fanbase in the process, but she grew as an artist and even had Britney Spears asking her to write songs for her. If the 'great' B. Spears, asks you to write songs for her, than you must have some talent,

Eminem, who can make fun of almost anybody and still go platinum. He re-invented the white rapper because when he first came out everyone was saying the same thing...next Vanilla Ice. Millions of albums, several Grammys, and an Oscar later, he's still here and about to drop a new album...man, did he prove the doubters wrong,

Christina Aguilera, who has re-invented herself, image and sound, on every single album since her debut. Like P!nk, she went against her managers and label and changed her image and sound to what she wanted to do. Regardless of how many people insist on calling her a biter (who isn't nowadays), girl can sing her ass off. She's always been the real deal where it really matters and that's all I have to say about that,

Spice Girls, Girl Power was massive and they sold out a tour after being disbanded for years. They really helped in beginning the pop music phenomenon in the late 90s,

Backstreet Boys, who are currently in the studio making their next album. They are the last actual boy band still standing (no, I can't count NKOTB, sorry) and are still huge in pretty much every country outside of the US. They broke records by using real vocal talents that just so happened to be attached to nice images,

Kanye West, as much as I want to smack him at times, he's a very talented artist who delivers the goods. As much as his multiple public temper tantrums have come into play, it's hard to ignore that he's got that 'IT' factor that can carry him into the next decade,

And, yes,

Beyonce, another artist who managed to come from a successful group and become a successful solo artist. She can sing and dance her ass off. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about the acting, but she's a singer first and formost. I'm not a fan, but I will say she's the real deal when it comes to current female artists. She is over-exposed at the moment, but she's making sure her name stays out there, which is what alot of artists seem to be doing nowadays..can't say that it's a dumb thing to do,

Really, there's a fine line between being a real icon and just a pop icon, just like there's a fine line between being famous and infamous. At the end of the day, integrity seems to be the major difference between the two. Just my

Everyones an icon nowadays


On serious note- It depends on how you define an icon. For example: The Statue of Liberty is an icon. When people see it, they think of America, opportunity. IMO- MJ, Janet, Prince, Madonna, Nirvana, etc. are icons.

renfield said:

Exactly...I dont know HOW many young singers said they were influenced by Mary J, or rappers saying Tupac Jay or Biggie.

VoicesCarry said:

I agree. Janet hit hard in the 80's, but she peaked with the janet. album in terms of being an icon.

estelle81 said:

This list surprises me.

That's right. Someone like Scary J. Blige would have never been successful in the early 1980s. It definately took someone like Shitney to come out in the late 1980s and open the doors for the dull asses to follow.

That's right, I hated her very first song "Real Love" which was kinda uptempo because it had a shit hop feel to it.

[quote]

TonyVanDam said:

Oh, I do. Shitney killed funk in the 80s and he came along and buried it in the 90s. And what's a trip, is this is the same man that was wearing makeup and throwing down hard in The World Class Wrecking Crew in the late 1980s. He went from a cool ass glam look and throwing down, to low class thug trash that thinks he's hard but makes music as slow as a dorky Waldo sissy of the 1930s.

vainandy said:

Actually "You Remind Me" was her first song and she sampled Patrice Rushen.

Just goes to show how much I was listening to the radio back then. I was into the underground gay house music club scene where they knew how to throw down and didn't have much time for the radio, especially since it had become so dull. Actually, we used to laugh at how dull the mainstream straight world had become. It's when the shit hop took over the gay clubs and made them just as dull as the radio, that I started really bitching and raising hell.
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[Edited 4/20/09 15:46pm]

2PAC
EMINEM
KURT COBAIN
DR. DRE
SNOOP DOGGY DOGG


[Edited 4/21/09 10:20am]
[Edited 4/21/09 10:22am]

vainandy said:

^^^SEE what I means ladies & gentlemen!

TonyVanDam said:

vainandy said:

[Edited 4/21/09 13:44pm]

Dictionary.com defines the word Icon as:

An important and enduring symbol...
and---
One who is the object of great attention and devotion; an idol...

After reading thru this topic, I have decided there are 3 types of icons. There are:

ICONS: These are the very influential people who have made their mark in history and have helped shape or define a generation. These people's work leaves a lasting legacy and has cultivated many copycats and/or others behind them who say they were influenced or inspired by this person. Examples of these kind of icons are Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, Elvis, the Beatles, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, Motown, Jimi Hendrix, etc...


Then there are

Icons: These people helped pave the way for the current generation of pop stars that we have now. Their mark in history is not as bold as the ICONS, and they didnt do anything groundbreaking or trailblazing, but they have some level of influence on others and they do have their share of followers. I put Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Alanis Morrisette, Mary J. Blige, Garth Brooks, Shania Twain, TLC, Nirvana, Tupac, Biggie and others in this group.


And then you have

icons: These are the people who are iconographic are at the moment---they are instantly recognizable and are seen everywhere...but they probably wont leave any kind of mark in history like the ICONS and definitely havent broke any new ground or--they're music is good for the moment but 10 years from now will people still be talking about them? I put Britney Spears, Beyonce, Justin Timberlake, Rihanna, Miley Cyrus, Jonas Brothers, NSync, Backstreet Boys, J-Lo, 50 Cent, Eminem, and etc. in this group, because allthough they are super-hot and super huge right now, it remains to be seen if their music will still be talked about, raved over, copied, sampled and played some 10-20-30 years from now. People are still raving over Thriller and Off the Wall, Purple Rain and some others music and its been 20+ years now.

Of course this is all my opinion and I'm sure some will disagree which is fine. But seeing as how the word "Icon" is now used so carelessly for the past decade or so, this makes it easier for me to separate the icons from the true ICONS.

It'll be better whenever you list Motown that you put the label's important artists in parentheses (Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross, Martha Reeves, Mary Wells, Tammi Terrell, The Temptations, The Supremes, The Jackson 5, etc.). Mainly the Motown superstars of the '60s and early '70s, lol.

Graycap23 said:

Just curious, but why does it surprise you? For me, the term 'Pop music' just means 'popular music', which is what it was intially intended to mean when it was coined decades ago (still don't understand why people define it as an actual musical style, because that's not really what it was intended to be when it was originally penned ). When an artist's music makes it on the pop charts, that just means that they are popular amongst a large majority of the general public; and popularity has never been based on being just talented. Most of the 'Pop Icons' that I listed aren't really all that talented, but there are people in third world countries with no TVs and probably only a single radio who know who these people are based largely on word of mouth and the constant media coverage; and because of this, many of these mediocre/talentless individuals will be remembered unfortunately; moreso because of scandals and public acts of stupidity than for the actual quality of their works.

Honestly, I believe that there haven't really been any legit icons since the mid-90s because most artists nowadays are carbon copies of past artists, which is why the music industry is at a standstill nowadays. There really isn't any musical style that hasn't been covered and re-covered already IMO. The future 'Real Icons' are the ones who will either still be performing years from now or behind the scenes in writing or producing areas, like Justin, P!nk, Kanye, and Eminem for example. Do I actually believe any of these people are better than the original icons? Hells No; and they never will be. Copies are never better than the original.

I think this generation is really confusing the word "Icon" with "Trendsetter", which is really what 95% of artists are nowadays. They either set the trends or they follow them, and since trends don't seem to ever really die (the current re-birth of anything 80s being one example), most of these individuals may have a chance at remaining relevant in the future if they find a nitch that works and stick with it, only changing (or as it's called nowadays, 're-inventing' ) that nitch ever so slightly as to not lose that element that initially drew people to them. The majority of artist nowadays are really just pop icons...very much like Marilyn Monroe and Elvis, not extremely talented, but able to mesmerize the majority of the general population by other means, thus ensuring that their names will be placed in books about the history of the entertainment industry. Just my

estelle81 said:

I would NOT consider a single person on that list an "Icon".

Marilyn Manson was the last big international rockstar. After that you had Eminem and a few others, but the focus had shifted to an entirely different thing by that point.