...so apparently critics were stunned and confused by this release being Stevie's follow up to "Songs in the Key of Life"..

i've known/had the album for some time, but truly heard it for what it is just yesterday.


what are your thoughts on the album? and do you think it was a worthy successor to Songs in the Key or do you think Stevie muted his progress?

It's fantastic! Following up SITKOL was a virtually impossible task, so I appreciate the weirdness. It's a little too long, but there are some real gems. "Power Flower," "Come Back As a Flower," "Ecclesiastes," "Outside My Window," and "Black Orchid" are among my favorites.

A symphonic, suitelike, orchestral masterpiece.

If it was a step forward, I don't know where he landed. In the Land Of La-La probably.

His future albums certainly were lacking the genius of his 70s albums. Even HAJ has many average songs.

I first heard this CD as a child and as expected, it went over my head. I took a listen to it recently and amazed by it,( of course the I was smoking at the time, REALLY helped me grasped the meaning of what those other non-smokable plants were talking about...

I love this album and studied the compositions. I find "Finale" for instance so well put together, really complex. A step forward and he took a risk because people were expecting a "I Wish" or "Sir Duke". One should really listen to "Tree" on quality speakers, and put it up loud! A great piece. I love the vocals in "Black Orchid". Recently I was watching the full documentary it's slighty different from the record. Stevie singing the title track moves the heart when you see him without his glasses, vulnerable to some but totally embracing Creation. Ecclesiates is based on a part in the Bible, it's interesting to read.

graecophilos said:

Granted, but Stevie's 80s/90s/00s output is better than anybody else's string of consecutive releases. I got a playlist with fave selections from Hotter Than July, In Square Circle, Characters, Jungle Fever, Conversation Peace and A Time to Love and it's totally kick-ass!

I like this album, but I would say it was a step backward because part of why his mid 70s catalog was so powerful was its pop appeal, and that's where this project was lacking.

Was it a step forward because he was shedding the need to appeal to a mass audience? I doubt that was Stevie's intention.

AlexdeParis said:

Forward, without question. Even the "missteps" contain gems that surpass most of his contemporaries' output then (if only for sheer ingenuity and concepts) and the successes on it have turned into hits/fan favorites.

ThreadBare said:

Co-sign.

AlexdeParis said:

Thanks, man. I often think that, without SLOP there would be no "Condition of the Heart." That intro is straight-up "...Plants."

ThreadBare said:

There are a lot of similarities between the release of this album and ATWIAD as a follow-up to the massive success of SITKOL and PR.

What do people mean with "a step forward". That the album is a step better than SITKOL, or that the album helped making Stevie an even better songwriter/singer?
I'm not being provocative, I just wanna know because I'm with Cinnie.

Pfunkjazz, great you're SW fan but it's really fanatic to say Stevie's 80s/90s/00s output is better than anybody else's string of consecutive releases.

I think the 90s were his low point, and Conversation Peace is really a lame album, compared to anyone.
His 80s album are not satisfying, and I think on the long run people like Paul McCartney (who started in the music scene with Stevie!), had his low points in the 80s too, but in the 90s his music became quite good and the 00s were fascinatingly amazing.

I agree that TFL is a great album, I like it more than HAJ, there are some unneccesary fillers anyway.

graecophilos said:

I believe it was a step forward, all the same. It represents growth and depth. That Stevie was willing to go there as an artist while maintaining his commitment to artistry and community is the bomb to me. I love it.

graecophilos said:

Since the context is in relation to his creative peak it's certanly makes sense to a fantic like me. So, assume the challenge: who else had a similar level of output?

You might actually have a point with Macca's solo records, but I never cared for his Wings period.
[Edited 3/8/09 8:54am]

graecophilos said:

It's another step forward as a songwriter. Journey... contains some of his most challenging and interesting compositions. He branched out and tried a number of different ideas, but they still contain that Wonder magic. As a singer, he was still in excellent voice. As an album, it's his weakest of the decade after Signed, Sealed, and Delivered, but that doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile and fantastic in its own right.


Conversation Peace is his only post-'60s album that I don't really enjoy. The rest ranges from very good (A Time to Love, Jungle Fever, In Square Circle, SS&D) to great (Characters), to mind-blowingly fantastic (everything else).

Right, and I'm saying:

One small step backward for Stevie

One giant backflip for mankind

Cinnie said:

I just don't get how it can be considered a step backward. Because it's not as good? Because it's not as successful? He grew as an artist -- how can that be backward? If anything, it's the biggest step forward he took in the '70s. Was Let's Get It On a step backward from What's Going On? Most people prefer Innervisions over FFF; does that mean the latter was a step backward even though it's clearly influenced by his car accident?

AlexdeParis said:

It's just my opinion. I think it is clearly documented that SITKOL is his "peak" so anything less would have to be a step backward. Secret Life Of Plants is a "valley".
Just because someone is experimenting doesn't mean the output is good or that his songwriting is getting better (although I admire the challenge).

Do I need that song where Stevie is performing the voice of a bee? No.

I tried to be gentle, AlexDeParis, but you just kept asking!

Cinnie said:

I like the bee song.

In fact I like the album. But Stevie was always a pretty commercial artist. Was there another black artist in the 70s who merged soul/funk/jazz with pop?
Anyway, he failed to reach most people's hearts with that album.

But the ones who enjoy it seem to LOVE it.

graecophilos said:

cute



well I just don't see it as a step forward

Cinnie said:

That's not even close to a consensus opinion. Innervisions gets lots of votes as well.


You don't have to be gentle with me. I'm a big boy. Anyway, I'm not saying the album is flawless by any stretch ("Race Babbling" alone is waaaaay too long). But the vast majority is overwhelmingly good (and some of the individual songs are better than some songs on SITKOL). I couldn't consider it a "valley" anyway, because I like it a little better than Hotter Than July.
[Edited 3/8/09 11:20am]

AlexdeParis said:

Word???

It sounds like I am bashing this album or don't enjoy it. I like it, but it's much like a later Prince album, which can be appreciated with a level of fam-ness, and not so much "a step foward in songwriting".

Cinnie said:

Yep. I mean, I love Hotter Than July and all, but I like JTTSLOP a little better. Here's how I see it:

1A. Songs in the Key of Life
1B. Innervisions
1C. Fulfillingness' First Finale
4. Talking Book
5. Music of My Mind
6. Where I'm Coming From
7. Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants
8. Hotter Than July
9. Characters
10. Signed, Sealed, and Delivered

The top 3 can all rotate depending on my mood. 5 and 6 flip sometimes, too.

AlexdeParis said:

I know, Innervisions is actually my favorite

Neither a step forward or backward... more like a step to the side.

It's my favourite album by him. Although I do have to admit that if I have people at my place when I play it they're usually just commenting weirdly. I guess most people just aren't used to hearing experimentation in the soul music context. It's Stevie being allowed to freely toy with his collection of synthesizers and really exploring their possibilities.

novabrkr said:

I think you're side stepping the question.

I gave the HTJ album several chances but it doesn't work for me. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Lately. Rocket Love is a good song, well Happy Birthday is catchy, but I never listen to it. All I Do is a great tune.
the rest to me is boring. I was disapointed he started his shows with 5 of these songs, not exactly his most spectacular songs and not good openers...

Well, I added all the new songs from Musical Aquarium on my HTJ version. It adds quality to the album.

Interstingly in 1980 he gave a way some great tunes he must have written around the same time as the other HTJ songs. Don't make Me Wait Too Long, You Are My Heaven, let's Get Serious, Whatcha Gonna Do With It are great tracks, Stevie should have used them!!!

It's got one of my favourite Stevie songs ("Send One Your Love") so that's good enough for me!