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PrintableBlaqueKnight said: 8. And finally, the music industry itself has embraced the opportunities of digital media, at last letting consumers buy *single* tracks at a time rather than forcing entire albums full of ‘fillers’ on them. Looking at the RIAA’s own sales figures for the past 10 years, there is a *direct* correlation between the break-off in album sales and the introduction and increase in single track digital sales. Looking at the actual numbers, it is abundantly clear that the vast majority of consumers never wanted to buy full albums in the first place, but were merely forced to by the lack of affordable single-track media. Now that the digital revolution has arrived, countless millions of 16-track album sales are being turned into 1- or 2-track sales, *decimating* the former revenues on music. THIS is the real reason why the music industry is hurting.
I have heard this as the main reason people don't buy albums, even if they reaally really like the single. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Blah, blah, blah Chucci. Nobody said anything about killing "music". We are all lovers of music here. The author of the article obviously was going for sensationalism with the title with regards to the mainstream industry. We know that the business isn't going away completely but its definitely changing. I myself, continue to find good music on the web all of the time but I beg to differ that the chart topping music hasn't had a sharp decline in quality and its "horribly ignorant" to ignore the facts. The lack of usage of recent back catalog proves it. A great song is a great song no matter when it is written but we are not talking about the exceptions, here.
"Peer to peer networks, alone, are not responsible for the music industry's woes. The head honchos from those five super labels will promote facts and figures that will make the uninformed believe the hype, but that's all that it is - hype." That's exactly what was said in the article. The author made some good points. Maybe you should re-read it. [Edited 3/6/09 6:05am] Don't get your panties all up in a bunch, BK! I read the article. And being an owner, I know what's going on in the business that I'm in - if I wasn't striving to be informed, I'd be a shitty business person. My post was directed towards the reactionary responses in this thread - that music sucks today, file sharing is entirely to blame for the music industry getting it's arse whupped, and that good albums are dead. All of that is "OMG!" retardo rhetoric which stems from the old familiar business model consumers/fans are used to changing drastically over night. By the way, anybody who thinks music from yesteryear is better than what's on the Hot 100 Billboard charts today has their head up their ass! Go check out this list at Billboard and look the top five Hot 100 songs from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Alot of it is cheesy one hit wonder pop sensations who wrote poppy, formulaic pop for the pop masses of America's pop culture. http://www.billboard.com/..._index.jsp Hell, I'll list some for you: 1960 - Percy Faith - Theme From A Summer Place 1961 - Bobby Lewis - Tossin' & Turnin' 1962 - Mr.Acker Bilt - Stranger on The Shore 1963 - Jimmy Gilmer - Sugar Shack 1964 - The Beatles - I Want To Hold Your Hand 1965 - Sam The Sham - Wooly Bully 1966 - Barry Sadler - The Ballad of The Green Berets 1967 - Lulu - To Sir With Love 1968 - The Beatles - Hey Jude 1969 - Archies - Sugar, Sugar 1970 - Simon/Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water 1971 - Three Dog Night - Joy To The World 1972 - Roberta Flack - The First Time I Ever Saw Your Face 1973 - Tony Orlando - Tie A Yellow Ribbon 1974 - Barbra Streisand - The Way We Were 1975 - Captain & Tennille - Love Will Keep Us Together 1976 - Wings - Silly Love Songs 1977 - Rod Stewart - Tonight's The Night 1978 - Andy Gibb - Shadow Dancing 1979 - The Knack - My Sharona Ack! EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...rplay_hits As the people in Phylkollans say, "Sussudio!" [Edited 3/6/09 9:16am] | |
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Empress said: BlaqueKnight said: I don't want to see it saved. Call me a musical anarchist. I want to see it destroyed. Its far too corrupt at this point to be saved. The internet is its instrument of destruction. I have to agree with BK. If it is destroyed, maybe we will start to hear more music from real musicians that actually have talent instead of all these hip/hop/pop wannabees that are making millions as we speak. I can't even listen to the radio these days. If I have to listen, I always pick a classic rock or soul station simply because the music is so much more superior.  Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
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chuckaducci said: Sigh...this shit again?!?!?!?
Music released from 1950-1999 is not superior to music released today. That argument is horribly ignorant. Again, go back and look at 40 years of Billboard charting and you'll see the likes of mediocre, awful, here today gone tomorrow types of bands. Yes, technology has made it so that any fucken retard with Garageband and some cool loops can slap together a "hit" but well written and expertly executed songs will NEVER die. Peer to peer networks, alone, are not responsible for the music industry's woes. The head honchos from those five super labels will promote facts and figures that will make the uninformed believe the hype, but that's all that it is - hype. Musicians will find a way to play - and they are. Live music is where it's at these days. Fame and fortune are secondary. I'm a musician. I MUST play. I'm a record label owner as well. I could not be any more excited! Even the very proposition of "killing the music industry" is flawed - you cannot kill music. There will always be music - in films, with adverts, in symphony halls, on radio, marching bands, with opera, in elevators, on planes, trains and automobiles, in malls, on buses, in high school jazz bands, annoyingly in doctor's offices, in playhouses, in jails, in brothels, on stage, and live and in your face. You cannot kill the music industry. Look, I'll assauge your music industry pain - my album's coming out at the end of the summer. I'll make you believe again!!!! Put some funk on it and we'll be a believer. 
You can't seriously be insinuating that today's music is better than the classic 60's, 70's, or 80's period and if you are please give us an example of this fine music of today you speak of. [Edited 3/6/09 9:31am] Don't laugh at my funk
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meow85 said: I can break it down to two words: Crap music.
They can try to blame filesharing, new media, excess of radio stations, distractions, or competition however much they want but at the end of the day the thing that's driving audiences away is this inundation of deeply shitty music. Poor quality sounds from artists who coast by on their image or their looks or their tabloid gossip. Don't get me wrong -I know that there have always been plastic stars whose image is more important than their sound, but they didn't use to dominate the scene. Now they do. And the sounds coming out of these acts? Much of it is lacking a decent melody, repetitive and simplistic, and the vocals are autotuned all to hell. The instruments, if they're actually there at all and not just made with a computer, get lost in the mix of poor production. Word to the music industry: Get rid of these dumb shit "artists" and their dumb shit "music" and spend your time and energy investing in and promoting people with talent, skill, and ambition and you WILL have audiences coming back. Make the effort to find creative, innovative musicians and performers with true magnetism and charisma, and work on developing a loyal fanbase that will sustain you for years instead of going for the quick buck with some unlistenable piece of shit you dredged off of American Idol or had Disney breed for you. Here we go... BINGO!! Let's cut, past and frame it. ^^^ I didn't walk away from radio, radio walked away from me. Slowly but surely they slice, diced and reduced their playlist to such a narrow demographic, I stopped listening to public radio 16 years ago. Anyone who wants to pretend the current music being produced isn't woefully inferior, far to often it's manure that rises to the top..forsaking the cream, or folks are on some type of nostalgia trip, so be it. They're those who see things as they truly are and they're those who view things as they wish to see them. Business 101, when you're profits are in decline and you're losing market-share, it's your product stupid.  [Edited 3/6/09 12:07pm] | |
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phunkdaddy said: chuckaducci said: Sigh...this shit again?!?!?!?
Music released from 1950-1999 is not superior to music released today. That argument is horribly ignorant. Again, go back and look at 40 years of Billboard charting and you'll see the likes of mediocre, awful, here today gone tomorrow types of bands. Yes, technology has made it so that any fucken retard with Garageband and some cool loops can slap together a "hit" but well written and expertly executed songs will NEVER die. Peer to peer networks, alone, are not responsible for the music industry's woes. The head honchos from those five super labels will promote facts and figures that will make the uninformed believe the hype, but that's all that it is - hype. Musicians will find a way to play - and they are. Live music is where it's at these days. Fame and fortune are secondary. I'm a musician. I MUST play. I'm a record label owner as well. I could not be any more excited! Even the very proposition of "killing the music industry" is flawed - you cannot kill music. There will always be music - in films, with adverts, in symphony halls, on radio, marching bands, with opera, in elevators, on planes, trains and automobiles, in malls, on buses, in high school jazz bands, annoyingly in doctor's offices, in playhouses, in jails, in brothels, on stage, and live and in your face. You cannot kill the music industry. Look, I'll assauge your music industry pain - my album's coming out at the end of the summer. I'll make you believe again!!!! Put some funk on it and we'll be a believer.
You can't seriously be insinuating that today's music is better than the classic 60's, 70's, or 80's period and if you are please give us an example of this fine music of today you speak of. [Edited 3/6/09 9:31am] Sure I am! Did you look over my posts that included links to Billboard's Hot 100? Check 'em out. What makes "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go" a better song than "Unbreakable"? What makes "Foolish Beat" a better piece of art than say, "Right Round"? The top of the pop charts have ALWAYS been mostly suspect. The only reason why folks are complaining is because they view music today and yesterday anachronistically. Y'all are hollerin' and kneejerkin' about being musical anarchists and wanting the industry destroyed because the industry has now been swamped with shitty music - like shitty music just materialized out of thin air! Yeah, right. SHITTY MUSIC HAS BEEN TOPPING THE POP TART CHARTS SINCE DAY ONE! The internet has levelled the playing field. Like I said, any doofus oofus can write a hit song, but the basement geniuses (ahem, cough, me, ahem, cough) who may have been ignored in 1970, have a chance at releasing interesting music because of the advent of technology and the net. Yes, similarly minded musicians like myself may not chart; probably won't go diamond and may have to secure another part time gig to feed our families but there are musicians like me, who are in the game for the sake of the art - and not fame and fortune. The music that is suffering today comes from those labels pushing wannabe stars. The music that is thriving today stems from true hearted artists. | |
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TD3 said: I didn't walk away from radio, radio walked away from me. Slowly but surely they slice, diced and reduced their playlist to such a narrow demographic, I stopped listening to public radio 16 years ago. Anyone who wants to pretend the current music being produced isn't woefully inferior,that far to often the manure is rising up and forsaking the cream, or folks are on some type of nostalgia trip, so be it. They're those who see things as they truly are and they're those who view things as the wish to see them. Business 101, when you're profits are in decline and you're losing market-share, it's your product stupid.
[Edited 3/6/09 9:55am] Hmmm...I would love for us to one day take every hit song from the 80's or 90's, compare and contrast them to hits from today and see what we come up with. I'm willing to bet that most of youse will be shocked! I want all the "Get Outta My Dreams (Get Into My Car)" fans who think this song is intrinsically better than what's being released today to holler at me. All the "All 4 Love" and "Rush, Rush" proponents need to get at me. Hey you, the big fan of Kriss Kross' "Jump", yeah YOU, "Rock Me Amadeus" fan - let's talk! Egads. | |
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EDIT: this is from wiki:
1984 October 27 "I Just Called to Say I Love You" Stevie Wonder November 3 "I Just Called to Say I Love You" Stevie Wonder November 10 "I Just Called to Say I Love You" Stevie Wonder November 17 "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go" Wham! November 24 "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go" Wham! December 1 "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go" Wham! December 8 "Out of Touch" Daryl Hall and John Oates December 15 "Out of Touch" Daryl Hall and John Oates December 22 "Out of Touch" Daryl Hall and John Oates December 29 "Like a Virgin" Madonna 1985 January 5 "Like a Virgin" Madonna January 12 "Like a Virgin" Madonna January 19 "Like a Virgin" Madonna January 26 "Like a Virgin" Madonna February 2 "You're the Inspiration" Chicago February 9 "I Want to Know What Love Is" Foreigner February 16 "I Want to Know What Love Is" Foreigner February 23 "Careless Whisper" Wham! featuring George Michael March 2 "Careless Whisper" Wham! featuring George Michael March 9 "Careless Whisper" Wham! featuring George Michael March 16 "Can't Fight This Feeling" REO Speedwagon March 23 "Can't Fight This Feeling" REO Speedwagon March 30 "Can't Fight This Feeling" REO Speedwagon April 6 "One More Night" Phil Collins April 13 "One More Night" Phil Collins April 20 "We Are the World" USA For Africa April 27 "We Are the World" USA For Africa May 4 "We Are the World" USA For Africa May 11 "We Are the World" USA For Africa May 18 "Crazy for You" Madonna May 25 "Don't You (Forget About Me)" Simple Minds June 1 "Everything She Wants" Wham! June 8 "Everything She Wants" Wham! June 15 "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" Tears for Fears June 22 "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" Tears for Fears June 29 "Sussudio" Phil Collins July 6 "Sussudio" Phil Collins July 13 "Sussudio" Phil Collins July 20 "Sussudio" Phil Collins July 27 "Raspberry Beret" Prince August 3 "Everytime You Go Away" Paul Young August 10 "Shout" Tears for Fears August 17 "Shout" Tears for Fears August 24 "Shout" Tears for Fears August 31 "The Power of Love" Huey Lewis and the News September 7 "The Power of Love" Huey Lewis and the News September 14 "The Power of Love" Huey Lewis and the News September 21 "St. Elmo's Fire (Man in Motion)" John Parr September 28 "Money for Nothing" Dire Straits October 5 "Money for Nothing" Dire Straits October 12 "Money for Nothing" Dire Straits October 19 "Take on Me" a-ha October 26 "Take on Me" a-ha November 2 "Part-Time Lover" Stevie Wonder November 9 "Part-Time Lover" Stevie Wonder November 16 "Part-Time Lover" Stevie Wonder November 23 "We Built This City" Starship November 30 "We Built This City" Starship December 7 "Separate Lives" Phil Collins and Marilyn Martin December 14 "Separate Lives" Phil Collins and Marilyn Martin December 21 "Broken Wings" Mr. Mister December 28 "Say You, Say Me" Lionel Richie 1986 January 4 "Say You, Say Me" Lionel Richie January 11 "Say You, Say Me" Lionel Richie January 18 "Say You, Say Me" Lionel Richie January 25 "Say You, Say Me" Lionel Richie February 1 "That's What Friends Are For" Dionne and Friends February 8 "That's What Friends Are For" Dionne and Friends February 15 "That's What Friends Are For" Dionne and Friends February 22 "How Will I Know" Whitney Houston March 1 "How Will I Know" Whitney Houston March 8 "Kyrie" Mr. Mister March 15 "Kyrie" Mr. Mister March 22 "Sara" Starship March 29 "These Dreams" Heart April 5 "Rock Me Amadeus" Falco April 12 "Rock Me Amadeus" Falco April 19 "Rock Me Amadeus" Falco April 26 "Kiss" Prince May 3 "Kiss" Prince May 10 "West End Girls" Pet Shop Boys May 17 "West End Girls" Pet Shop Boys May 24 "Greatest Love of All" Whitney Houston May 31 "Greatest Love of All" Whitney Houston June 7 "Live to Tell" Madonna June 14 "Live to Tell" Madonna June 21 "Live to Tell" Madonna June 28 "On My Own" Patti Labelle and Michael McDonald July 5 "On My Own" Patti Labelle and Michael McDonald July 12 "There'll Be Sad Songs (To Make You Cry)" Billy Ocean July 19 "Invisible Touch" Genesis July 26 "Invisible Touch" Genesis August 2 "Invisible Touch" Genesis August 9 "Glory of Love" Peter Cetera August 16 "Glory of Love" Peter Cetera August 23 "Papa Don't Preach" Madonna August 30 "Papa Don't Preach" Madonna September 6 "Higher Love" Steve Winwood September 13 "Higher Love" Steve Winwood September 20 "Dancing on the Ceiling" Lionel Richie September 27 "Stuck with You" Huey Lewis & The News October 4 "Stuck with You" Huey Lewis & The News October 11 "Stuck with You" Huey Lewis & The News October 18 "When I Think of You" Janet Jackson October 25 "When I Think of You" Janet Jackson November 1 "True Colors" Cyndi Lauper November 8 "True Colors" Cyndi Lauper November 15 "Amanda" Boston November 22 "Amanda" Boston November 29 "Amanda" Boston December 6 "Human" The Human League December 13 "The Way It Is" Bruce Hornsby and the Range December 20 "The Way It Is" Bruce Hornsby and the Range December 27 "Walk Like an Egyptian" The Bangles 1987 January 3 "Walk Like an Egyptian" The Bangles January 10 "Walk Like an Egyptian" The Bangles January 17 "Walk Like an Egyptian" The Bangles January 24 "Shake You Down" Gregory Abbott January 31 "At This Moment" Billy Vera and the Beaters February 7 "Open Your Heart" Madonna February 14 "Open Your Heart" Madonna February 21 "Livin' on a Prayer" Bon Jovi February 28 "Livin' on a Prayer" Bon Jovi March 7 "Livin' on a Prayer" Bon Jovi March 14 "Livin' on a Prayer" Bon Jovi March 21 "Jacob's Ladder" Huey Lewis and the News March 28 "Lean on Me" Club Nouveau April 4 "Lean on Me" Club Nouveau April 11 "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" Starship April 18 "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" Starship April 25 "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" Starship May 2 "I Knew You Were Waiting (For Me)" Aretha Franklin and George Michael May 9 "(I Just) Died in Your Arms" Cutting Crew May 16 "(I Just) Died in Your Arms" Cutting Crew May 23 "With or Without You" U2 May 30 "With or Without You" U2 June 6 "With or Without You" U2 June 13 "You Keep Me Hangin' On" Kim Wilde June 20 "Always" Atlantic Starr June 27 "Head to Toe" Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam July 4 "I Wanna Dance with Somebody (Who Loves Me)" Whitney Houston July 11 "I Wanna Dance with Somebody (Who Loves Me)" Whitney Houston July 18 "I Wanna Dance with Somebody (Who Loves Me)" Whitney Houston July 25 "Alone" Heart August 1 "Alone" Heart August 8 "Shakedown" Bob Seger August 15 "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" U2 August 22 "Who's That Girl" Madonna August 29 "Who's That Girl" Madonna September 5 "La Bamba" Los Lobos September 12 "La Bamba" Los Lobos September 19 "La Bamba" Los Lobos September 26 "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" Michael Jackson with Siedah Garrett October 3 "Didn't We Almost Have It All" Whitney Houston October 10 "Here I Go Again" Whitesnake October 17 "Lost in Emotion" Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam October 24 "Bad" Michael Jackson October 31 "Bad" Michael Jackson November 7 "I Think We're Alone Now" Tiffany November 14 "I Think We're Alone Now" Tiffany November 21 "(I've Had) The Time of My Life" Bill Medley and Jennifer Warnes November 28 "(I've Had) The Time of My Life" Bill Medley and Jennifer Warnes December 5 "Heaven Is a Place on Earth" Belinda Carlisle December 12 "Faith" George Michael December 19 "Faith" George Michael December 26 "Faith" George Michael 1988 January 2 "Faith" George Michael January 9 "Faith" George Michael January 16 "Got My Mind Set On You" George Harrison January 23 "Need You Tonight" INXS January 30 "Could've Been" Tiffany February 6 "Could've Been" Tiffany February 13 "Could've Been" Tiffany February 20 "Father Figure" George Michael February 27 "Father Figure" George Michael March 5 "Father Figure" George Michael March 12 "Father Figure" George Michael March 19 "Never Gonna Give You Up" Rick Astley March 26 "Man In The Mirror" Michael Jackson April 2 "Man In The Mirror" Michael Jackson April 9 "Man In The Mirror" Michael Jackson April 16 "Get Outta My Dreams, Get Into My Car" Billy Ocean April 23 "Get Outta My Dreams, Get Into My Car" Billy Ocean April 30 "Where Do Broken Hearts Go" Whitney Houston May 7 "Anything for You" Gloria Estefan and Miami Sound Machine May 14 "Anything for You" Gloria Estefan and Miami Sound Machine May 21 "One More Try" George Michael May 28 "One More Try" George Michael June 4 "One More Try" George Michael June 11 "One More Try" George Michael June 18 "Together Forever" Rick Astley June 25 "Foolish Beat" Debbie Gibson July 2 "Foolish Beat" Debbie Gibson July 9 "The Flame" Cheap Trick July 16 "The Flame" Cheap Trick July 23 "Hold On to the Nights" Richard Marx July 30 "Roll With It" Steve Winwood August 6 "Roll With It" Steve Winwood August 13 "Roll With It" Steve Winwood August 20 "Roll With It" Steve Winwood August 27 "Monkey" George Michael September 3 "Monkey" George Michael September 10 "Sweet Child o' Mine" Guns N' Roses September 17 "Sweet Child o' Mine" Guns N' Roses September 24 "Love Bites" Def Leppard October 1 "Love Bites" Def Leppard October 8 "Red Red Wine" UB40 October 15 "Groovy Kind of Love" Phil Collins October 22 "Groovy Kind of Love" Phil Collins October 29 "Kokomo" The Beach Boys November 5 "Kokomo" The Beach Boys November 12 "Wild, Wild West" The Escape Club November 19 "Baby I Love Your Way/Freebird Medley" Will To Power November 26 "Look Away" Chicago December 3 "Look Away" Chicago December 10 "Look Away" Chicago December 17 "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" Poison December 24 "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" Poison December 31 "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" Poison 1989 January 7 "Two Hearts" Phil Collins January 14 "Two Hearts" Phil Collins January 21 "Two Hearts" Phil Collins January 28 "When I'm With You" Sheriff February 4 "Straight Up" Paula Abdul February 11 "Straight Up" Paula Abdul February 18 "Straight Up" Paula Abdul February 25 "Lost In Your Eyes" Debbie Gibson March 4 "Lost In Your Eyes" Debbie Gibson March 11 "Lost In Your Eyes" Debbie Gibson March 18 "The Living Years" Mike + The Mechanics March 25 "Eternal Flame" The Bangles April 1 "The Look" Roxette April 8 "The Look" Roxette April 15 "Like A Prayer" Madonna April 22 "Like A Prayer" Madonna April 29 "Like A Prayer" Madonna May 6 "I'll Be There For You" Bon Jovi May 13 "Forever Your Girl" Paula Abdul May 20 "Forever Your Girl" Paula Abdul May 27 "Rock On" Michael Damian June 3 "I'll Be Loving You (Forever)" New Kids On The Block June 10 "I'll Be Loving You (Forever)" New Kids On The Block June 17 "Satisfied" Richard Marx June 24 "Satisfied" Richard Marx July 1 "Good Thing" Fine Young Cannibals July 8 "Good Thing" Fine Young Cannibals July 15 "If You Don't Know Me By Now" Simply Red July 22 "Toy Soldiers" Martika July 29 "Right Here Waiting" Richard Marx August 5 "Right Here Waiting" Richard Marx August 12 "Right Here Waiting" Richard Marx August 19 "Right Here Waiting" Richard Marx August 26 "Right Here Waiting" Richard Marx September 2 "Cold Hearted" Paula Abdul September 9 "Don't Wanna Lose You" Gloria Estefan September 16 "Girl I'm Gonna Miss You" Milli Vanilli September 23 "Girl I'm Gonna Miss You" Milli Vanilli September 30 "Girl I'm Gonna Miss You" Milli Vanilli October 7 "Miss You Much" Janet Jackson October 14 "Miss You Much" Janet Jackson October 21 "Miss You Much" Janet Jackson October 28 "Listen to Your Heart" Roxette November 4 "When I See You Smile" Bad English November 11 "When I See You Smile" Bad English November 18 "Blame It On The Rain" Milli Vanilli November 25 "Blame It On The Rain" Milli Vanilli December 2 "We Didn't Start the Fire" Billy Joel December 9 "Another Day in Paradise" Phil Collins December 16 "Another Day in Paradise" Phil Collins December 23 "Another Day in Paradise" Phil Collins December 30 "Another Day in Paradise" Phil Collins 1990 January 6 "Another Day in Paradise" Phil Collins January 13 "How Am I Supposed to Live Without You" Michael Bolton January 20 "How Am I Supposed to Live Without You" Michael Bolton January 27 "Opposites Attract" Paula Abdul with The Wild Pair February 3 "Opposites Attract" Paula Abdul with The Wild Pair February 10 "Opposites Attract" Paula Abdul with The Wild Pair February 17 "Opposites Attract" Paula Abdul with The Wild Pair February 24 "Escapade" Janet Jackson March 3 "Escapade" Janet Jackson March 10 "Escapade" Janet Jackson March 17 "Escapade" Janet Jackson March 24 "Love Will Lead You Back" Taylor Dayne March 31 "Love Will Lead You Back" Taylor Dayne April 7 "Don't Wanna Fall in Love" Jane Child April 14 "Don't Wanna Fall in Love" Jane Child April 21 "Nothing Compares 2 U" Sinéad O'Connor April 28 "Nothing Compares 2 U" Sinéad O'Connor May 5 "Nothing Compares 2 U" Sinéad O'Connor May 12 "Nothing Compares 2 U" Sinéad O'Connor May 19 "Vogue" Madonna May 26 "Vogue" Madonna June 2 "Vogue" Madonna June 9 "It Must Have Been Love" Roxette June 16 "It Must Have Been Love" Roxette June 23 "It Must Have Been Love" Roxette June 30 "Step by Step" New Kids on the Block July 7 "She Ain't Worth It" Glenn Medeiros featuring Bobby Brown July 14 "She Ain't Worth It" Glenn Medeiros featuring Bobby Brown July 21 "She Ain't Worth It" Glenn Medeiros featuring Bobby Brown July 28 "Vision of Love" Mariah Carey August 4 "Vision of Love" Mariah Carey August 11 "Vision of Love" Mariah Carey August 18 "Come Back to Me" Janet Jackson August 25 "Come Back to Me" Janet Jackson September 1 "Release Me" Wilson Phillips September 8 "Release Me" Wilson Phillips September 15 "Release Me" Wilson Phillips September 22 "Something Happened On the Way to Heaven" Phil Collins September 29 "Something Happened On the Way to Heaven" Phil Collins October 6 "Praying for Time" George Michael October 13 "Praying for Time" George Michael October 20 "I Don't Have the Heart" James Ingram October 27 "I Don't Have the Heart" James Ingram November 3 "Ice Ice Baby" Vanilla Ice November 10 "Close To You" Maxi Priest November 17 "Ice Ice Baby" Vanilla Ice November 24 "Love Takes Time" Mariah Carey December 1 "Love Takes Time" Mariah Carey December 8 "Love Takes Time" Mariah Carey December 15 "Love Takes Time" Mariah Carey December 22 "Because I Love You (The Postman Song)" Stevie B December 29 "Because I Love You (The Postman Song)" Stevie B I'll tell you one thing from looking at this short list...Phil Collins got laid. [Edited 3/6/09 10:25am] | |
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You know Flo-Rida's "Right Round" is an interpolation of Dead Or Alive's "Right Round" from the 80s, right?
If you are as informed as you say you are then you already know that back catalog is the bread and butter for labels. This decline is not a new discovery but its starting to hit the industry hard. http://arstechnica.com/te...rouble.ars http://www.rollingstone.c...line/print Since you claim to be informed, you should already know that new back catalog usage is down. While back catalog usage is not the sole source of the problems the industry is having, its certainly one of the factors. Since you're "informed", I suppose you already know that.  | |
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How To Kill The Music Industry?
Flaunt your wealth on MTV: C.R.I.B.S. | |
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Two things stuck with me from the author's list of 8 reasons why the industry is dying, all of which I found compelling. Of course, illegal file sharing plays its part, but the author is correct in that the "problem" is much more multi-faceted.
From my experience, second-hand music is a huge reason why profitability is down. There are so many used CD stores stocking a vast array of music, in excellent condition, much of which you can't find at mainstream stores (and mainstream stores have become horrible in their inventories if you are looking for anything other than Top 40 stuff). Related to this is the price of a CD. Sure, I'll buy a CD on sale at Target or Best Buy, but I'll never pay 14.99 for something I know I'll be able to find in a few months or online for much cheaper. I was just at a Border's in Arizona and they were selling some CDs for 18.99. Absolutely ridiculous. iTunes (and its imitators) are defintely a huge factor. The ability to buy a single track changes everything. I love buying full albums and finding the hidden gems, but I still buy single tracks and many people only want to buy single tracks. This is actually a return (sort of) to the way things used to be when my mother was growing up in the 1950s and all she bought (for the most part) was 45s, not full length albums. Buying singles actually makes more sense. We are presented with singles in videos and on the radio, in commercials, etc. Its not any more "natural" to buy full length albums as it is to buy singles. The era when full-length albums rule is partially over. But, I will say, buying a single track is somewhat different than buying a 45 because of the lack of b-sides, which was always an added bonus. Single track purchases are also different than buying a CD single, which I used to love. CD maxi-singles were great and I don't think we'll ever have them in any great quantity again. Now, to put together multiple versions of the same song, you have to buy multiple tracks, if you can find them. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: You know Flo-Rida's "Right Round" is an interpolation of Dead Or Alive's "Right Round" from the 80s, right?
If you are as informed as you say you are then you already know that back catalog is the bread and butter for labels. This decline is not a new discovery but its starting to hit the industry hard. http://arstechnica.com/te...rouble.ars http://www.rollingstone.c...line/print Since you claim to be informed, you should already know that new back catalog usage is down. While back catalog usage is not the sole source of the problems the industry is having, its certainly one of the factors. Since you're "informed", I suppose you already know that. "interpolation" is another way to get around the fact that its ripping off the past, i know its called sampling, but lets be real, its stolen and its a quick fix for a single. The industry has many issues, one very simple one is that it "shot its load" so to speak, it got fat, no one was paying attention, everyone was too busy on their new gadgets and fucking ringtones and now is waking up with the house on fire and wondering how to put it out. The seeds were planted back when MTV was sold off, and also when soundscan entered the picture. Labels are not going to invest in an artist, mainly because the people at labels are just nothing more than "bean counters" and have degrees in business and law, WTF does that have to do with music...nothing. Anytime you have something were its sole existence is to "not" lose money or be unpopular, you will have a glut. But this whole mindset of soundscan, and units sold, and certified gold and platnum, its all done. The next thing would be "filtering", it used to be that a dj, or someone at a label got involved with the music and knew what it was doing, now its all bought and sold, DJ's are mindless robots all of them, they are slaves with a playlist that they have to play and never can stray from it. If people wanna hear a true testament, to the Rap Games demise, listen to LL's "dear hip hop" from his latest cd, and you can apply his words to all genres of music with that. But all in all, theres is just as much shit on the web than at a label, % wise its about even, but with the web you are filtering, with the mainstream, you dont really have choices, labels dont compete, they dont challenge, they are all packaging the same concept because it brings in the $$$ to their bottom line and fuck the person who performs it, because in this american idol generation, anyone can do what they do and the people will buy it enough for the label to profit. The surviviors will be the longtime artists, whether they chart or not, go gold, go wood, whatever, if they have been in the game, they are set. If they can sell a show and play shows they are set. If they arent lazy (like so many new artists are) then they can make shit happen. But the mindsets of labels will not change, because its been the mindset for well over a decade now, mainly because of the advancements in technology, now you have to be a media star first, long before you make a record. Music now is like "do you want fries with it" on a McDonalds order, its an afterthought, done deal, "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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coltrane3 said: Two things stuck with me from the author's list of 8 reasons why the industry is dying, all of which I found compelling. Of course, illegal file sharing plays its part, but the author is correct in that the "problem" is much more multi-faceted.
From my experience, second-hand music is a huge reason why profitability is down. There are so many used CD stores stocking a vast array of music, in excellent condition, much of which you can't find at mainstream stores (and mainstream stores have become horrible in their inventories if you are looking for anything other than Top 40 stuff). Related to this is the price of a CD. Sure, I'll buy a CD on sale at Target or Best Buy, but I'll never pay 14.99 for something I know I'll be able to find in a few months or online for much cheaper. I was just at a Border's in Arizona and they were selling some CDs for 18.99. Absolutely ridiculous. iTunes (and its imitators) are defintely a huge factor. The ability to buy a single track changes everything. I love buying full albums and finding the hidden gems, but I still buy single tracks and many people only want to buy single tracks. This is actually a return (sort of) to the way things used to be when my mother was growing up in the 1950s and all she bought (for the most part) was 45s, not full length albums. Buying singles actually makes more sense. We are presented with singles in videos and on the radio, in commercials, etc. Its not any more "natural" to buy full length albums as it is to buy singles. The era when full-length albums rule is partially over. But, I will say, buying a single track is somewhat different than buying a 45 because of the lack of b-sides, which was always an added bonus. Single track purchases are also different than buying a CD single, which I used to love. CD maxi-singles were great and I don't think we'll ever have them in any great quantity again. Now, to put together multiple versions of the same song, you have to buy multiple tracks, if you can find them. Its all on labels with Pricing CD's, thats the first and foremost thing that people dont realize. The labels charge almost 13 dollars a new cd to a store. So you have stores that have to sell them for 14.99, if they want to pay the stores rent and have people work their, this is why everyone is closing, labels blame everything but themselves. Best Buy can sell cheap because it makes its margin on 99% of the other things in the store they sell, they arent music retailers, nor are target and Walmart etc...if you took all the other bullshit that these stores sell, you'd see 14-18 dollar cds everywhere. This is also why Best Buy is downsizing there cd departments, its now becoming a drain on their margin, they lose 2-3 dollars per cd, and in this depression we are in, that cannot be afforded, so you will see less and less music in those big box retailers, especially catalog cds. iTunes, im not a fan of because of its .99 cent bull, its just a further rip off of artists and its a drain on album sales, and just good albums. I mean im so glad that the Beatles deal fell through, because who the hell feels that someone can break apart an album like "abbey road" or with Stevie, "songs in the key of life" iTunes like all "businesses" will soon see a drop or a major slowdown, and it will cause a price shift, and there is gonna be a major change in the artists that DONT want their albums broken up. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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BlaqueKnight said: You know Flo-Rida's "Right Round" is an interpolation of Dead Or Alive's "Right Round" from the 80s, right?
Wha?...wha?...wait a minute. You're telling me that a credible hip hop artist used a sample from the 80s?! NOOOOO! I don't believe it! Seriously, BK, what's your point? I've already told you that Billboard charters are suspect. If you are as informed as you say you are then you already know that back catalog is the bread and butter for labels. This decline is not a new discovery but its starting to hit the industry hard. Since you claim to be informed, you should already know that new back catalog usage is down. While back catalog usage is not the sole source of the problems the industry is having, its certainly one of the factors. Since you're "informed", I suppose you already know that.
LOL! It's flat out inconceivable how you gleaned "the back catalogue is the bread and butter for record labels" from those two articles - and that "this decline is not a new discovery but its starting to hit the industry hard." The back catalogue is NOT the bread and butter for record labels. I would like to see facts/figures that support that statement and not two articles from 2007 that support EVERYTHING I've been saying in this thread and others. And the decline in sells is NOT just now hitting the industry hard. It's been hitting the record industry since Y2K. Wait a second, first of all, who's feeding you this information about back catalogs and new back catalogs?!?! Show me the numbers that support your theories on catalogs. Insider tip: if you're going to post numbers, make sure they are up to date and not two years old. I also like how you glossed over the list of top hits from years past - it's literally littered with the same boring, formulaic, mindless fluff that proliferates the radio today. You and your musical anarchists, wistfully yearning for that wonderfully glorious music of yore, are rebels without a cause. You guys are just pissed off 'cos Kool & The Gang grew their jheri curls out or something. This is the best time EVER to be a working musician. Lastdecember: Good points. However, labels from yesteryear were mostly run by suits as well, am I right? It's just that labels seemingly spent more time with an artist and help develop them. Stevie Wonder, as rich as a talent he was, needed nurturing and development. These days, labels are not as quick to do such a thing. We all know what they want instead (cha-ching). But I agree. Musicians who are full of integrity and decent musicianship (who aren't lazy) will outlast and survive any music industry catastrophe. And I think most record label suits are praying to God that normalcy returns - neverminding their prayers themselves is a pyre. | |
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Everyone is making good points, but even though Radio, Soundcan and record labels are inter-related, they are just working to make a buck for themselves and not part of a grand conspiracy to flood the market with bad music.
The labels do sign good artists, and would sign nothing but "devil music" as Vainandy puts it, if they generate cash. That some good artists fail to generate sufficient income to keep them on board is another thing. Soundscan was brought in as an alternative way to track actual sales amist another payola and sales/aiplay manipulation scandal. Radio is driven by advertising, they will play whatever format makes them the most money. Some of you have romantic memories of how good radio was, but as i remember it has always been hit and miss. Yes there are many reasons for decline of the music industry, but its not because of your perceived lack of quality, its mostly because alternative non cash-flow generating ways fans get their music. Speaking of back catalogs, I think that artists like Nirvana's and Radiohead and Bjork, Smashing Pumpkins, Mariah....and i can think of many more in the last 20 years that will do ok. Business wants only to make money, the majors don't care the type of music as long as it generates cash. Wether U2 or MJ are generating their loot or Hanna Montana and the Jonas Bros. they dont care, Its the consumer that ultimately decides. [Edited 3/6/09 13:45pm] | |
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Ugot2shakesumthin said: Everyone is making good points, but even though Radio, Soundcan and record labels are inter-related, they are just working to make a buck for themselves and not part of a grand conspiracy to flood the market with bad music.
The labels do sign good artists, and would sign nothing but "devil music" as Vainandy puts it, if they generate cash. That some good artists fail to generate sufficient income to keep them on board is another thing. Soundscan was brought in as an alternative way to track actual sales amist another payola and sales/aiplay manipulation scandal. Radio is driven by advertising, they will play whatever format makes them the most money. Some of you have romantic memories of how good radio was, but as i remember it has always been hit and miss. Yes there are many reasons for decline of the music industry, but its not because of your perceived lack of quality, its mostly because alternative non cash-flow generating ways fans get their music. Speaking of back catalogs, I think that artists like Nirvana's and Radiohead and Bjork, Smashing Pumpkins, Mariah....and i can think of many more in the last 20 years that will do ok. Business wants only to make money, the majors don't care the type of music as long as it generates cash. Wether U2 or MJ are generating their loot or Hanna Montana and the Jonas Bros. they dont care, Its the consumer that ultimately decides. [Edited 3/6/09 13:45pm] Best post in the thread. In the midst of all the numbers and Billboard charts and comparisons and critiques, I've lost track of who is to blame - consumers in America with shitty taste! {packs bags and leaves for the UK} | |
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chuckaducci said: BlaqueKnight said: You know Flo-Rida's "Right Round" is an interpolation of Dead Or Alive's "Right Round" from the 80s, right?
Wha?...wha?...wait a minute. You're telling me that a credible hip hop artist used a sample from the 80s?! NOOOOO! I don't believe it! Seriously, BK, what's your point? I've already told you that Billboard charters are suspect. If you are as informed as you say you are then you already know that back catalog is the bread and butter for labels. This decline is not a new discovery but its starting to hit the industry hard. Since you claim to be informed, you should already know that new back catalog usage is down. While back catalog usage is not the sole source of the problems the industry is having, its certainly one of the factors. Since you're "informed", I suppose you already know that.
LOL! It's flat out inconceivable how you gleaned "the back catalogue is the bread and butter for record labels" from those two articles - and that "this decline is not a new discovery but its starting to hit the industry hard." The back catalogue is NOT the bread and butter for record labels. I would like to see facts/figures that support that statement and not two articles from 2007 that support EVERYTHING I've been saying in this thread and others. And the decline in sells is NOT just now hitting the industry hard. It's been hitting the record industry since Y2K. Wait a second, first of all, who's feeding you this information about back catalogs and new back catalogs?!?! Show me the numbers that support your theories on catalogs. Insider tip: if you're going to post numbers, make sure they are up to date and not two years old. I also like how you glossed over the list of top hits from years past - it's literally littered with the same boring, formulaic, mindless fluff that proliferates the radio today. You and your musical anarchists, wistfully yearning for that wonderfully glorious music of yore, are rebels without a cause. You guys are just pissed off 'cos Kool & The Gang grew their jheri curls out or something. This is the best time EVER to be a working musician. Lastdecember: Good points. However, labels from yesteryear were mostly run by suits as well, am I right? It's just that labels seemingly spent more time with an artist and help develop them. Stevie Wonder, as rich as a talent he was, needed nurturing and development. These days, labels are not as quick to do such a thing. We all know what they want instead (cha-ching). But I agree. Musicians who are full of integrity and decent musicianship (who aren't lazy) will outlast and survive any music industry catastrophe. And I think most record label suits are praying to God that normalcy returns - neverminding their prayers themselves is a pyre. There was a different frame of mind with the "suits" back then and now. The suits back then knew very little about bottom line and balance sheets and business. They would not be afraid to take a loss on 3-4 albums when their artist was U2 or Prince, Elton John or Billy Joel etc... but they cant invest 3-4 albums in someone like a Ciara because that is someone that most likely wont have a 3-4 album career. It has to be a hit now and today, not tomorrow, not a luck thing. You arent gonna see something like what happend to Styx (an example) back in 1975 when a DJ in Chicago decided to back to their first album and play an album cut and they wound up with a top 10 hit and went on to sell 20 million albums in the states and still exist today, you arent gonna have that. Today you would be dropped if you were on album 4-5 and hadnt had a "hit". "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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Ugot2shakesumthin said: Everyone is making good points, but even though Radio, Soundcan and record labels are inter-related, they are just working to make a buck for themselves and not part of a grand conspiracy to flood the market with bad music.
The labels do sign good artists, and would sign nothing but "devil music" as Vainandy puts it, if they generate cash. That some good artists fail to generate sufficient income to keep them on board is another thing. Soundscan was brought in as an alternative way to track actual sales amist another payola and sales/aiplay manipulation scandal. Radio is driven by advertising, they will play whatever format makes them the most money. Some of you have romantic memories of how good radio was, but as i remember it has always been hit and miss. Yes there are many reasons for decline of the music industry, but its not because of your perceived lack of quality, its mostly because alternative non cash-flow generating ways fans get their music. Speaking of back catalogs, I think that artists like Nirvana's and Radiohead and Bjork, Smashing Pumpkins, Mariah....and i can think of many more in the last 20 years that will do ok. Business wants only to make money, the majors don't care the type of music as long as it generates cash. Wether U2 or MJ are generating their loot or Hanna Montana and the Jonas Bros. they dont care, Its the consumer that ultimately decides. [Edited 3/6/09 13:45pm] Good points i have always said there is still good music at a label, just as much as on the "web" which is not this pot of great talent that everyone dreams it is. Search deep into a label, its not just the mainstream that are from labels, they are others buried in the pile that just dont get the face time. I mean look at the Lost Highway label, the fact that they let Ryan Adams release an album every other day shows that "the mind set" of just letting the artist work and find itself exists in some labels. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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Is is just me, or has everyone stopped trying to create and own their own record labels? It seems like from 95-00 every other person I met was using technological advancements to just go do it themselves, like Master P and the Cash Money dudes were doing, and believing they were gonna be self-made millionaires. Or maybe I've just been out of the loop for so long...?  I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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chuckaducci said: LOL! It's flat out inconceivable how you gleaned "the back catalogue is the bread and butter for record labels" from those two articles - and that "this decline is not a new discovery but its starting to hit the industry hard." My examples were just two other articles that also address the issue that we are talking about and they both also make mention of CONTENT as being part of the issue. There are many. You seem to be the only one who thinks there's not a problem. I didn't ascertain that back catalog is bread and butter for major labels; ITS A KNOWN FACT. Its known by everyone in the business except "Mr. Informed" I see. chuckaducci said: The back catalogue is NOT the bread and butter for record labels.
Okay. You really don't seem to know nearly as much about the biz as you claim to. Either that or you're just set on taking the opposite stance on anything I say. I hope the latter is the case. Why don't you ask Sony why they were so hell-bent on buying The Beatles' back catalog from MJ? Nevermind. Fuck it. According to the great Schuccaducci, back catalog is of no importance.
chuckaducci said: I would like to see facts/figures that support that statement and not two articles from 2007 that support EVERYTHING I've been saying in this thread and others.
You mean two articles that contradicted your statements about content not being an issue? Yeah... chuckaducci said: And the decline in sells is NOT just now hitting the industry hard. It's been hitting the record industry since Y2K. Wait a second, first of all, who's feeding you this information about back catalogs and new back catalogs?!?! Show me the numbers that support your theories on catalogs. Insider tip: if you're going to post numbers, make sure they are up to date and not two years old.
Duh? Strawmaning again, I see. I didn't say the problem JUST started YOU did and vets on this site who are reading this are probably looking at this mess you're typing like "huh?" because I went over this same thing in 2000, 2001 and 2002 already. So you want me to post numbers that are privy to each record labels' accounting department? You sound foolish. I'm not an IRS investigator. You are the KING of strawman arguments. I have been on this site for YEARS, well before Y2K saying pretty much the same thing on this topic. I don't have THEORIES - you do. I know for a fact that major labels make a lot of their bank from back catalog but I'm not about to sit here and type out to you Industry basics 101, although you obviously need it. chuckaducci said: I also like how you glossed over the list of top hits from years past - it's literally littered with the same boring, formulaic, mindless fluff that proliferates the radio today. You and your musical anarchists, wistfully yearning for that wonderfully glorious music of yore, are rebels without a cause. You guys are just pissed off 'cos Kool & The Gang grew their jheri curls out or something.
You mean those charts that you copied that prove...what? You seem to deal in extremes when it much more complicated that that. You can't simplify everything into this or that. Of course there are wack songs on those charts but there are also great songs on those charts - great songs that you still hear today in commercials, in advertising, when you go to stores, malls, theme parks and many other places. Why? Because the labels use that BACK CATALOG MATERIAL. You don't hear anyone using that Teddy Riley "yep, yep" shit that inundated the early 90s or that sample-laden hip-hop shit that was pushed on the public throughout the late 90s or that disposable R&B shit that sounds like a hip-hop producer made it being reused because the stuff that's not tied up in court from the original artists trying to snag royalties from their original songs being used in the samples is sitting on a shelf somewhere because its DONE. You've got it and me all wrong but far be it from me to separate you from your compartmentalizations and delusions. You just keep thinking what you want about who you THINK I am and I'll keep letting you being wrong. I don't know you or care enough about what you are wrong about to correct you. chuckaducci said: This is the best time EVER to be a working musician.
Lastdecember: Good points. However, labels from yesteryear were mostly run by suits as well, am I right? It's just that labels seemingly spent more time with an artist and help develop them. Stevie Wonder, as rich as a talent he was, needed nurturing and development. These days, labels are not as quick to do such a thing. We all know what they want instead (cha-ching). But I agree. Musicians who are full of integrity and decent musicianship (who aren't lazy) will outlast and survive any music industry catastrophe. And I think most record label suits are praying to God that normalcy returns - neverminding their prayers themselves is a pyre. No one disagrees that good music and good musicians get work. Another strawman point, I see. The topic is the INDUSTRY and its business practices. They are archaic and faltering because of their resistance to embrace change and people like you seem to think that these falling monoliths are going to somehow survive when they are already in a state of panic from their mistakes. Are you one of those people who sees the fires in California and decides to stay in their homes thinking that it'll burn out before it gets to your house? And the "suits" that ran labels in the 60s, 70s and 80s were not accountants. Those suits had to have a great ear and foresight. Those suits would never have dissolved their A&R departments in favor of increasing the size of their marketing departments. Back catalog has become less important (less of a financial focus, not irrelevant, mr. extremist) in the last several years because less of a focus for labels when they changed their business model to disposable artists. Look where it got them. [Edited 3/6/09 17:22pm] | |
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Linn4days said: How To Kill The Music Industry?
Flaunt your wealth on MTV: C.R.I.B.S. Are you kidding?!? Some of THAT wealth is rented most of the time. | |
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chuckaducci said: phunkdaddy said: Put some funk on it and we'll be a believer.
You can't seriously be insinuating that today's music is better than the classic 60's, 70's, or 80's period and if you are please give us an example of this fine music of today you speak of. [Edited 3/6/09 9:31am] Sure I am! Did you look over my posts that included links to Billboard's Hot 100? Check 'em out. What makes "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go" a better song than "Unbreakable"? What makes "Foolish Beat" a better piece of art than say, "Right Round"? The top of the pop charts have ALWAYS been mostly suspect. The only reason why folks are complaining is because they view music today and yesterday anachronistically. Y'all are hollerin' and kneejerkin' about being musical anarchists and wanting the industry destroyed because the industry has now been swamped with shitty music - like shitty music just materialized out of thin air! Yeah, right. SHITTY MUSIC HAS BEEN TOPPING THE POP TART CHARTS SINCE DAY ONE! The internet has levelled the playing field. Like I said, any doofus oofus can write a hit song, but the basement geniuses (ahem, cough, me, ahem, cough) who may have been ignored in 1970, have a chance at releasing interesting music because of the advent of technology and the net. Yes, similarly minded musicians like myself may not chart; probably won't go diamond and may have to secure another part time gig to feed our families but there are musicians like me, who are in the game for the sake of the art - and not fame and fortune. The music that is suffering today comes from those labels pushing wannabe stars. The music that is thriving today stems from true hearted artists. Yes it has beginning in the early nineties. Have their been some bad songs in the past. Of course it has. You look at what's perceived to be great now such a artists like lil wayne, justin timberlake, T.I, bobby valentino, etc. Some of these artists are fortunate to get two cuts played on the radio dominated by crap music that most of us speak of. You look at the 70's with an artist like the isley brothers. Hell if they had a six song album 4 of the cuts off the album got heavy airplay. Why? Because the quality of the artist and the music was damn good. Yes you may have the occasional good artist like alicia keys and indie arie who has since gone independent because she got tired of playing the political bullshit with the big labels and she can put out the type of music she wants. I dig the fact you say you are a musician and doing your thing but i'm still waiting for you to list some of the artists you feel or good that you can find on the internet because i know you can't say that about too many nowadays that are in the mainstream. Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
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BlaqueKnight said: bboy87 said: BlaqueKnight, what do you think can save it?
I don't want to see it saved. Call me a musical anarchist. I want to see it destroyed. Its far too corrupt at this point to be saved. The internet is its instrument of destruction. Yeah, destroy it... 
What can't you understand, fool? Not every artist tours. No income to labels equals no income to artists. It also means no more investment in acts. Is that what you want? | |
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BlaqueKnight said: My examples were just two other articles that also address the issue that we are talking about and they both also make mention of CONTENT as being part of the issue. There are many. You seem to be the only one who thinks there's not a problem. I didn't ascertain that back catalog is bread and butter for major labels; ITS A KNOWN FACT. Its known by everyone in the business except "Mr. Informed" I see.
You cannot be that obtuse. Please show me a chart which indicates the percentages of back catalogues greater than anything other revenue stream generated by major record labels. I like how I ask for proof and your reply is "WELL, EVERYBODY WHO'S IN THE BUSINESS KNOWS IT!" Hey, do me a favor - stay off my debate team with that schlock. Of course there are wack songs on those charts but there are also great songs on those charts - great songs that you still hear today in commercials, in advertising, when you go to stores, malls, theme parks and many other places.
Oh my gawd! It's the same charts, BK. Again, if the merits of "Rock Me Amadeus" or "Kokomo" were enough to warrant a number one hit on that chart and in American pop culture, why can't Chris Brown, Britney Spears or any other goof troop artist mount that position as well? On the same hand, a contemporary goof troop Billboard chart could also contain well written and great songs. So, do you now see that your argument regarding the lack of great music today is horribly, horribly flawed? Or will you remain obstinate in order to support your stance out of spite? Because the labels use that BACK CATALOG MATERIAL. You don't hear anyone using that Teddy Riley "yep, yep" shit that inundated the early 90s or that sample-laden hip-hop shit that was pushed on the public throughout the late 90s or that disposable R&B shit that sounds like a hip-hop producer made it being reused because the stuff that's not tied up in court from the original artists trying to snag royalties from their original songs being used in the samples is sitting on a shelf somewhere because its DONE.
You've got it and me all wrong but far be it from me to separate you from your compartmentalizations and delusions. You just keep thinking what you want about who you THINK I am and I'll keep letting you being wrong. I don't know you or care enough about what you are wrong about to correct you. Hunh? "I don't know you or care enough about what you are wrong about to correct you." You sound like my ex.
Just kidding, dude - calm those jets, BK. Yeah, I have no idea what that post means. I'm not being condescending or sarcastic when I ask you to break it down for me again. No one disagrees that good music and good musicians get work. Another strawman point, I see. The topic is the INDUSTRY and its business practices. They are archaic and faltering because of their resistance to embrace change and [b]people like you seem to think that these falling monoliths are going to somehow survive when they are already in a state of panic from their mistakes. Are you one of those people who sees the fires in California and decides to stay in their homes thinking that it'll burn out before it gets to your house?
U don't read so good if you thenk I've ben sayin' dat in deez threadz an' en othurz. No wondur u don't no wut i'm talkin' 'bout. We both agree that the industry monoliths are in decline and rightfully so. We both agree that responsibility for said decline is said industry monolith's refusal to adapt to with the advent of widespread internet usage and other changes in music business practices. I think we disagree on the current state of music - you think it sucks now (still not sure what you base that on, but I'm assuming you base it on radio/Billboard/Grammys wins) while my position remains that radio/Billboard/Grammy wins have ALWAYS sucked. And I think we disgaree on how major labels profit these days. You claim the back catalogue is their bread and butter and I would like to see those claims substantiated. Am I right? We aren't that far off - I don't think further posts need to get any more strident after this....you ignorant, dumb ass mutherfucker! j/k!!  | |
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chuckaducci said: TD3 said: I didn't walk away from radio, radio walked away from me. Slowly but surely they slice, diced and reduced their playlist to such a narrow demographic, I stopped listening to public radio 16 years ago. Anyone who wants to pretend the current music being produced isn't woefully inferior,that far to often the manure is rising up and forsaking the cream, or folks are on some type of nostalgia trip, so be it. They're those who see things as they truly are and they're those who view things as the wish to see them. Business 101, when you're profits are in decline and you're losing market-share, it's your product stupid.
[Edited 3/6/09 9:55am] Hmmm...I would love for us to one day take every hit song from the 80's or 90's, compare and contrast them to hits from today and see what we come up with. I'm willing to bet that most of youse will be shocked! I want all the "Get Outta My Dreams (Get Into My Car)" fans who think this song is intrinsically better than what's being released today to holler at me. All the "All 4 Love" and "Rush, Rush" proponents need to get at me. Hey you, the big fan of Kriss Kross' "Jump", yeah YOU, "Rock Me Amadeus" fan - let's talk! Egads. Chuck, your gonna have to go back another 2 decades from me.
For one, if you going to list the top selling songs/albums of the 80's/90's you gonna have to list the top sellers by genre as well. If you don't, your kinda manipulating a true representation of album sales/hits singles to make your point. Having said that. Come on Chuck, we all know what was played back then. I think most use understand you point of view of point with a few take exceptions. You accuse some of use of viewing the present state of music and it's industry through rose color glasses, just maybe some would accuse you of the same thing. I guess we shall have to respectively agree to disagree. Hey, tell me where I can go to listen/purchase your music, PM if need be. Peace. | |
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chuckaducci said: U don't read so good if you thenk I've ben sayin' dat in deez threadz an' en othurz. No wondur u don't no wut i'm talkin' 'bout. The exact same thing could be said about you. Compared to me, YOU are the n00b around here, buddy. I've been saying this stuff for years and years, so "right back atcha'". chuckaducci said: We both agree that the industry monoliths are in decline and rightfully so. We both agree that responsibility for said decline is said industry monolith's refusal to adapt to with the advent of widespread internet usage and other changes in music business practices. I think we disagree on the current state of music - you think it sucks now (still not sure what you base that on, but I'm assuming you base it on radio/Billboard/Grammys wins) while my position remains that radio/Billboard/Grammy wins have ALWAYS sucked. And I think we disgaree on how major labels profit these days. You claim the back catalogue is their bread and butter and I would like to see those claims substantiated.
Am I right? We aren't that far off - I don't think further posts need to get any more strident after this....you ignorant, dumb ass mutherfucker! j/k!! Actually, we don't disagree on how record labels profit THESE DAYS considering the fact that I have stated that labels redirected their focus of revenue around 1991 when the bottom dropped out of the industry the first time when they forced CDs on the general public; we disagree on back catalog profits because of your lack of knowledge of what back catalog is. Since you say you own a record label, let me explain what should already be common knowledge to a label owner: Back catalog is any music your "label" is not currently pushing that it has the rights to. So, if one of your artists releases a second CD, then the 1st CD becomes back catalog. When you have a small label, your back catalog may be inconsequential but when you have a large label, you can't make greatest hits CDs or "Best Of" CDs without back catalog. Now you want charts and figures? Try soundscan. You MIGHT find some there. Labels certainly wouldn't willingly or easily give you that info. Now, lets see what happens when you DON'T have back catalog: No greatest hits CDs for your artists No licensing an artists' older music to be used in movies,as muzak, in commercials or ANYWEHRE. There are actually too many uses of back catalog for me to list. One of the reasons that labels are falling apart is because of the stupid ass "quick fix" that they implemented (and you seem to embrace) that has them scrambling now. They ignored back catalog sales in favor of agressive marketing and they have been pushing forward without looking back. Its like running across a bridge with it collapsing behind you. Well, they ran out of bridge. To be honest, I'm sure you will probably never have this problem. I'm assuming you are a small label owner with a small amount of artists and usually in cases like yours, back catalog IS less of a factor. Major labels handling big acts DO have to consider these things. Here's an article on why the biz is putting blu-ray on the back burner: (yes it pertains to this conversation) CLICK And I didn't base why I think the current catalogs of music suck on any of what you said. And Mong: Nevermind. Your point is so off-base and short-sighted I won't even begin to address it. Now is the time for artists to have more direct contact with their audience. If they can't do that then they shouldn't profit. As long as companies buy music, labels will rent it to them so I don't think that's going to go away. Somebody has to rent music for movies, etc. That's the new middle man position for labels once the industry collapses. Use your head..."fool". | |
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Your naivety is shocking. | |
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Mong said: Your naivety is shocking.
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I have just found out today from my nephew that this artist Souja Boy told his fans that if they download five of his songs, he can get nominated for an award. Does anyone know what's that all about. Things has changed so much in the music business. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Actually, we don't disagree on how record labels profit THESE DAYS considering the fact that I have stated that labels redirected their focus of revenue around 1991 when the bottom dropped out of the industry the first time when they forced CDs on the general public; we disagree on back catalog profits because of your lack of knowledge of what back catalog is. Since you say you own a record label, let me explain what should already be common knowledge to a label owner:
Back catalog is any music your "label" is not currently pushing that it has the rights to. So, if one of your artists releases a second CD, then the 1st CD becomes back catalog. When you have a small label, your back catalog may be inconsequential but when you have a large label, you can't make greatest hits CDs or "Best Of" CDs without back catalog. Now you want charts and figures? Try soundscan. You MIGHT find some there. Labels certainly wouldn't willingly or easily give you that info. Thank you for explaining back catalog. Yes, my label is very small (only four artists) and we just started last August. Our budget isn't even shoe-string - it's cat gut. But the portion of your post that I enboldened...Um...if that's the case then how would you know for certain that back catalogs is now the bread and butter of major record labels, BK? Come on now; that doesn't make any damn sense. Out one side of your mouth, you say "Back catalogs is the bread and butter of major labels!" When I ask you for proof, you say "Try soundscan. But even then, labels aren't willing to give you that info!" Now, lets see what happens when you DON'T have back catalog:
No greatest hits CDs for your artists No licensing an artists' older music to be used in movies,as muzak, in commercials or ANYWEHRE. You don't need old music to catch a licensing deal. You simply need recorded music that is readily available for licensing. Those iPod commercials ain't using old Big Star records - they are using contemporary artists. And I doubt the profitability of Best Of records...consumers today are buying/downloading singles from their favorite artists - you don't think Michael Jackson fans already have a Best Of playlist from him? One of the reasons that labels are falling apart is because of the stupid ass "quick fix" that they implemented (and you seem to embrace) that has them scrambling now.
What "quick fix" plan was implemented and show me where I have supported anything the major labels have done in the last eight years. I'll wait... They ignored back catalog sales in favor of agressive marketing and they have been pushing forward without looking back.
Why are you hellbent on the prospect of back catalogs saving the major labels? Where is this consumer's demand for the back catalogs of record labels? I don't get it. I've yet to read about music fans clamoring amidst the bullshit Billboard charts and radio play for BACK CATALOGS! To be honest, I'm sure you will probably never have this problem. I'm assuming you are a small label owner with a small amount of artists and usually in cases like yours, back catalog IS less of a factor. Major labels handling big acts DO have to consider these things.
I hate back catalogs. Seriously though, yes you are correct. My label will never be interested in becoming a monolith. We want the infrastructure to be small so that when the cycle of music changes again (and it will) we will be ready to adapt. And I didn't base why I think the current catalogs of music suck on any of what you said.
Then what are you basing it on? Cos surely you have not heard every record released since you think the day music died or started sucking. And surely you have not heard every record released during your beloved heyday of music excellence. So how could you possibly qualify a statement that the current "catalog" (I HATE THAT FUCKEN WORD) sucks if you're not basing it on Billboard/radio/RIAA/Grammys wins? For the 50th time - anybody who says music sucks today has their head straight up their arse!!! Okay, that's a little harsh - but you're definitely loco. | |
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