I like two Ryan Leslie songs quite a bit. "How it Was Supposed to Be", and "Valentine".

Anyone else get his album?

I dont own anything of his but Im digging him.

His debut cd is very nice. Dosen't Valentine remind you of Strawberry Lover in a way? The man can only get better. Very smart dude. Especially when it comes to his self promotion. He is going to be huge. Did I mentioned he went to Harvard at age 14?

Yeah, I love the dude's music, actually. My only pet peeve is his distinctive voice, which I actually have a love/hate relationship with. It's the subject of quite a few of my quips/retorts about his discriminant lisp. I think it's an underbite/lazy, monotone-like impediment. Alicia Keys has one of those, too. Also, Allen Payne ("Am I my brother's keeper?") from the Tyler Perry-Authorized/Executive Produced situation comedy "House of Payne" They all humor me to no end, as a result of their lazy, New Yorkish drawls.

Yes, his voice is very distinctive, LOL!

This is my thing with Ryan Leslie:

He's certainly a talented producer. He seems like he's able to cull together nice sounds in the studio and much like myself, he's a studio rat - I like that sense of determination and appreciate the discipline it takes to produce not only for yourself but for others. And his overall sound, although it's hallmarks clearly stem the 80's, is somewhat distinct when considering today's toilet bowl of a radio. He's definitely an extraordinary brother with a sense of purpose (or delusions of grandeur, call it how you see it).

But that is where my praise heaping end. His eponymous album teems with mediocrity. The N*E*R*D toss offs "You're Fly" and "Quicksand" are completely boring - there's no tension, no crest, no dynamics, no nothing (to be fair, most of the album suffers from these musical maladies). The mindless drivel of "Just Right" and "Gibberish" almost offended me - How dare you put unfinished, harebrained demos on this album, Mr.Leslie?! He owes me two songs! Thankfully, there are some highlights - "I-R-I-N-A" and "How It Was Suppose To Be" all feature hummable melodies. Actually, the front half of the record, overall, is decent. Also, alot of the criticisms about Leslie center around his vocals. I don't think this is fair. There are dozens of artists I can name off the top of my head who did not possess wonderfully elastic vocal cords and still maintained a successful career. Why does an R&B singer have to be a supreme vocal talent? He sings his songs well - his voice is the perfect complement to his songwriting.

However, because Leslie is someone who paints himself as an innovating and trendsetting artist who can't be put into a box, I'm looking for interesting song arrangements, instrumentation and musicianship; I'm also looking for lyrical depth and a strong sense of melody. After hearing this album, I'm still looking for it. He's a singles artist - right now, his stuff is not the stuff that albums are made of.

And that's my problem with alot of today's hipster musicians - they have great skill in marketing and promoting mediocre art. If Ryan Leslie sincerely wanted to set lasting trends, he'd get serious about his craft.

bobsteezy said:

Bought his cd last week after Entertainment Weekly gave it a B+. I was pleasantly surprised.

I've tried to get into his stuff but nothing grew on me. I may listen to his album again though

chuckaducci said:

I actually like "Quicksand", the only thing that disappointed me about it was that it starts off good but doesn't go anywhere. I think I like "Wanna Be Good" best musically. That song has a killer bass line. I agree about his vocals. He does just fine. In this American Idol age, people have developed a stereotypical standard that gets applied to practically every artist that comes out, so if you don't follow that trend then you get chastised for not selling your song to some other more mainstream artist. I'm glad he's defying the status quo in that way. Ryan IS innovative, just not in the musical sense. He's the one responsible for the success of Cassie. While we all know that she is talentless beyond modeling, you have to admit that getting millions of MySpace hits without the help of a label was quite impressive. He uses the web better than a lot of other artists at his level. He seems to have figured out how to market himself well. His youtube channel is good.
Here's the deal; he's not Stevie or Prince or Rick James or Roger, BUT...he's transparent as a producer/artist and he's not a fraud. He is giving people sort of a "reality show" style view of what he does and you are watching him progress and develop. Plus, dude has a short film that he directed, composed the music for and starred in on his youtube channel. While he may not be the most talented dude in the market, he's a marketing monster with a workhorse ethic. I have a lot of respect for that. He seems to be sort of a jack of all trades rather than a master musician. I ain't mad at dude. I hope he continues to do what he does. I'm sure he'll develop more as a composer over time but for right now, he's doing something that I'm not seeing any other R&B artist do. He keeps a close connection with his audience. Dude put his PHONE NUMBER on his channel and his site. Who does that? We just don't see that kind of honesty in today's market. Too often we see cartoonishly contrived over the top images like "Fiddy Cent" and "I'm-better-than-you" divas like Beyoncé.
Its actually a relief to see a real dude doing music for real and you get to watch him develop songs right on youtube...for free. I respect dude's hustle. I'd rather see more Ryan Leslies and less pre-packaged eye candy that graduated from the American Idol school of singing. I have to say that I think he IS trendsetting; not musically but he's laying a blueprint on how to be an artist in the new millenium.

BlaqueKnight said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Well said and I agree with a lot of your points. I am impressed with his hustlenometry and I don't think he's a fraud. I think he's making art as honestly as he can. But there is a part of me that thinks Leslie is quick to choose style over substance - substance would require time, effort and discipline - and he'd rather be a star. Alot of what you said was about his marketing/promotion - you said hardly anthing about the music! I guess I didn't say too much about his music either, but do you see what I'm saying?...we're talking about his marketing and promotion hustle and not that cheesy Emaj7 to C#min7 bridge in "Addiction" - we're not talking about his music!

And yet...His marketing skill set is VERY impressive. But is it too much to ask that the product being marketed is just as well?

Ryan is an enigma. I don't know. I think sometimes we are too hypercritical about the guy. He reps for the nerds. There is no question that he is one of a handful of quintessential DIY musicians/engineers going around - i would him freakish - and that ability or identity served him well when the new project was released, drawing in both fans and admirers. But as some commentators have mentioned, he falls short in some areas. True his melodies are inescapable but then again his lyrics are meticulously and repetitively commercial and generic. But then again you don’t require a lot of intellect to appreciate the totality of his songs (they are what they are, be it for the club or a quiet love session or moment of reflection).

Many will appreciate the eclectic carnival-amusement park type feel of "You’re Fly" on a balmy summers day or second guess the irony behind "Gibberish" which works on so many levels because its not overtly stylised; its mumbling and incoherency is masked by its simplicity and seamless charm making it an obvious standout. At times though, his arrangements can be too contrived and that’s where questions begin to arise about his penmanship and artistry - but that’s maybe just a starting point. Dude is definitely capable of more organic material with heart and solidarity. "Valentine" was perhaps his most vulnerable moment and had it been flipped, it could have easily become a scathing attack on Cassie and the fallout. I dunno, maybe dude doesn’t like using drama to sell his records. A little drama never hurt anyone right? Some might argue that he doesn’t possess as a strong as a personality as his contemporaries to cut through to the masses but that may not be entirely his fault. He may simply be reserved naturally, or hold things closer to his chest. He may want his work to speak for itself or simply refuse to create personas to compensate for what’s lacking. There’s a line in "IRINA" when he says : i want to be your future, forget about your past, i want to make you happy, by just being myself, cos i can’t be nobody else

He might not possess the lyrical savvy or straightforwardness of say a Dream or the clear cut ability of association behind Neyo’s penmanship but he’s always remain promising despite his many years in the industry. He definitely is the future of R&B competitively (production) and his work will bid the genre well. If he works on those gray areas, show some vulnerability and show a little more of his world to his fans and stay genuine, it will definitely complement and add to his entire aura and definitely push him and his career that much further.

chuckaducci said:

Well, lets not forget that he's an offshoot of the Bad Boy camp. Puffy is the very definition of style over substance so its not too hard to imagine that some of that may have rubbed off since he's probably exposed to the music business from that perspective. For what its worth, I like his CD overall. I don't expect Van Hunt level work from this dude. I don't expect him to do much more than what he does. More often than not, someone who is brilliant at music is usually terrible at the business side. He seems to be a bit more versatile in that aspect. Don't forget, he's doing what he's doing on a skeleton crew. With the right people around him, he could move up a level or two musically just by exposure or not having to devote so much time to the other aspects of the music business.
You kinda have to write the catchy stuff first to get people to like you if that's what you're aiming for. I think he sees building a fan base as more of an initial goal. It seems that he's more of a "hitmaker" type so I don't really expect any incredible material from him but I'm not going to rule him out. Seeing him play keyboards, it sounds like he is capable of more than what he is doing. Maybe he's trying to lure the fans in first before he starts experimenting musically. I guess we'll see sooner or later.

Its funny because people love this guy, and praise him now, and yet most of the artists he produced everyone here dogs 24/7. His productions are simplistic, very simplistic, he using alot of pre-set keyboard riffs that were on old Casio's when they started making them, and i mean the pre-sets, their not actually being played. So i have some issues on that respect, that he is merely lifting sounds, but then again, look who his mentor is, the king of "lifting". I would like to see him break away and do some band stuff, then again, i would like to see anyone in RB do that, and for the love of god, please DONT SAY MINT CONDITION. Album wise, im really not seeing anything different in him production wise, vocal arranging wise, that im not seeing and hearing John Legend do, so if John ain't original, then Ryan sure as hell aint.

lastdecember said:

That's why he has his youtube channel; to negate talk like this. You can go on there and actually SEE him creating a song. You must be thinking of Polow Da Don. Ryan ain't faking it. And yes, his tracks are simplistic. I think that's just the type of artist he is right now.
[Edited 2/23/09 19:04pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

and that proves??? Im not saying he doesnt know how to play an instrument, but setting up a camera and throwing a youtube channel together is not brain work, everyone and their mother is doing that, and yet the results are just as bad. Take his ass into a club and do a live tour, all live, no presets, no previously recorded vocals, no clip tracks, then i can put more stock in his channel which proves nothing, every artist has a channel.

I mean Katy Perry has a Youtube channel and she has shown how she writes songs, and gets in depth with the craft of writing, but does that mean she can write?
[Edited 2/23/09 19:20pm]

Once again, I'm going to have to impose this inquiry of mine towards "LastDecember". Why the obsession with Cassie? I mean, granted, she's an immaculately marvelous ingenue. But that's about as far as it goes for this young madam. She's a manufactured product of the industry; not an artist in her own right. So explain (And I'd really appreciate if you didn't berate me or commence to impeding a tirade as a rebuttal because someone is confounded by your affinity to this displaced chanteuse/aspiring fashion supermodel.).

Mysterioso said:

Dude what the hell are you talking about?? Im talking about how people are praising this cat, and yet dog all the artists he produces, dont you find that a big double standard. Who the fuck cares about Cassie, shes hot, i NEVER FUCKING praised her music, shit, why cant people fucking read god damn, we go through the same shit everytime fucking time. Cassie is HOT, that doesnt mean anything about her music, Kim Kardashian is fucking hot too, does that mean she's an actress, i mean come on folks, seperate the two worlds. We bitch and moan about the media and the mainstream and then we dont know how to seperate the two worlds, and people want to know why i dog this fucking country for shit.

Sorry for the tirade but this shit is played out already, if i praise her looks, that has nothing to do with her music, SEPERATE the two worlds. Now if im going on calling her music the top shit in the world or that shes better than Joni Mitchell than thats different, but me saying things like she is in the same vein as a Rihanna or Ciara, well, Sorry, its all the same freaking concept, its called selling a package, case closed.
[Edited 2/23/09 19:40pm]

lastdecember said:

I'm sorry for getting things misconstrued, then.

lastdecember said:

See, I disagree. I think he has done a great job of showing how he produces. Its not like everyone else's and this is something that he has been doing for two or three years. Keep in mind, he's not really signed as far as I know. Next Selection is basically...him.
He actually takes the time to produce the video of the "production" of his songs. The videos aren't just someone with a Sony Handycam shooting a full session. You say every artist has a channel but every artist doesn't have a GOOD channel and unlike every other artist, he's doing the bulk of the work himself.
What's even more impressive is that dude made a pretty chick with no talent a star with NO INDUSTRY PULL. We've had the Cassie discussion before. You know I think she's pretty but should be seen and not heard. I also thought that the re-release of her song Me and U was a huge crapfest compared to the first version that floated around MySpace for a long time. I also didn't know who he was at the time but it was Ryan who shot the first one (the one with the first person concept) and did the track. Cassie was a packaged concept and is still what's part of what's wrong with the industry but the more interesting story is behind Cassie and not in Cassie herself. She was not some project of some big executive's daughter/niece/plaything or whatever that a board of directors decided they would force onto the public through a shrewd marketing campaign. Initially, she was just some dude's girlfriend and he decided to make her a star even though he himself was a nobody in the industry and he did. That makes Ryan Leslie sort of the "slumdog millionaire" of the music industry. I just find that intriguing. As to Katy Perry, I don't know her back story and don't like her music so I can't really say much. Maybe she's rags to riches as well? I don't know. I have more respect for Ryan than Katy because I like his songs better , simple though they may be and I like what he's doing on the web. Dude is laying out the blueprint for what works for artists to connect with their audiences. That's impressive.
[Edited 2/24/09 0:23am]

BK, Ryan Leslie could be viewed as what's wrong with the industry as well:

Nowadays, ANYBODY with a camera, some moderately rated piano chops, the right connections and a insatiable thirst for fame can be a "star."

Now, being a musician myself, I love how the playing field has been levelled. Anyone can settle into a successful career as a musician - that "Chocolate Rain" money is still out there!! But at the same time, have these moderately talented fools actually "levelled" the playing field?

Like I said, I think Leslie really does have some nice sounds (I don't think he uses presets - he's just good at creating recognizable patches) and I think his sparse arrangements are a nod to Prince and not an apb on his overall lack of musicianship. But back in the day, Prince turned away even DeVante Swing - who, in his prime, could out write and out produce Leslie every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I wonder how far the purple midget could get his foot up Ryan Leslie's arse when throwing him out?

While everyone had points, I will say this. Anything beats the same formula that radio station are hypnotizing the masses with. Ryan Leslie, I will bet on him. Who do you know that started out that wasn't mediocre? I wonder how Prince sounded when he was practicing "The Man Fron U.N.C.L.E.? Anyway,with ambitionand work ethic one can only get better. Talent will take you only so far. 10,000 hours of practice is the only thing that will make you great. At that rate, Ryan Leslie has a promising future ahead of him.

BlaqueKnight said:

No i understand that, my worry, as said previously by chuck, is that nowadays every yahoo with a camera thinks they are a musician and filmmaker, this i blame on the reality tv world. And all im saying is what has the Reality world brought the "acting" industry, the girls from the HILLS??? and what has acting school brought the world....Tom Hanks,Sean Penn,Denzel,Kate Winslet etc...

Music, the industry that is, got sucked into the mentality of "anyone can do it", well guess what, not everyone can, thats why we have a "depression" going on in the world, everyone thought they could buy a house, guess what, more than half the world cant afford a house.

Ryan has to persist, i have seen so many cats like him come and go, he needs to flood the market, flood the net, break the shit down. This is why i get annoyed with Van Hunt, the cat bitches, and yet what is he doing? He's lazy, he should be dumping music out there everyday, dont preach change, when you cant back it up. Furthermore with Van Hunt, he alienated alot of people early on near him because he turned "marketing" opportunities. A newspaper in NYC was doing a spread on him and they were trying to get him to do some shows and interviews and come to record stores and meet and greet (when there were a few stores left) well, the dude i spoke too, said, it was like pulling teeth because he didnt want to do any of it, so, it is what it is. Changes can only come with something to back it up

lastdecember said:

lastdecember said:

I agree/

I appreciate all the responses to this question.

...I trust my ear and I knew I liked, How It Was Supposed To Be, the moment I heard it. It has some vocal elements that remind me of Foster Sylvers' (I'll Make All Your Dreams Come True").

When I first listened to the whole Ryan Leslie debut album (I actually downloaded it from i-tunes), Valentine jumped out at me. I agree with Chuckaducci about other songs not having direction and sounding unfinished. But I forget the bad tunes and just play the good stuff and Ryan Leslie's good stuff has been in heavy rotation in my life of late.

I had never even heard of dude before November 2008. I now have learned that he was behind Cassie and I will freely admit that my pop sensibilities liked "Me & U" while most bashed it to death.

Please do not twist it. I'm not saying R Les is my favorite artist. I AM saying that he has made two songs (solo) I like - which doesn't happen often from someone I was previously unaware of.

Yeah..


He produced "Everybody" by Fonzworth Bentley.


It's a nive "throwback" muscially, but its too slow:


I have a faster instrumental:

http://www.jamglue.com/mi...-City-Mix-