PatrickS77 said:

Wow, calm down! I'm a fan of Mike's music. But I really think that album is substandard. And guess what? I'm allowed. Don't assume I'm going on reputation. It is actually possible that I did listen to it and decided it was shit on that basis alone.

And also, thanks for pointing out how we all should to listen to albums in future. Or was it just me?
....More than once was it? No, no, 'several' was the word you used. Anyway I'll keep your post on file just in case I freak out after listening to Lotusflow3r for the first time.

Sheesh.

^^Hmm, maybe you should calm down! It's just fact that many people dismiss it based on it's repuation alone and don't give it enough time... if at all... and therefore I think this is the MJ album, which is underrated.. not Dangerous!
[Edited 2/28/09 15:44pm]

I think the slow songs on 'Invincible' are pretty good."Butterflies","Heaven Can Wait","Speechless","Whatever Happens" and "Break Of Dawn" are superb songs.It's the uptempo songs that are subpar,imo.Maybe he should have let the Neptunes produce the uptempo tracks? Or even better,he should have let Jamiroquai handle the uptempo jams.

TyphoonTip said:

Oh come on, its not that terrible album, its far from terrible, maybe its not one of his best efforts but its not terrible as most fans saying here, saying that the album is a terrible or shit as a whole is nothing but an opinion, the album has many great songs

1-butterfiles
2-whatever happens
3-don't walk away
4-break of dawn
5-heaven can wait
6-speechless

an album with those good songs that anyone can dig will never be labeled "shit",everyone has a different musical taste but its far from terrible.

SoulAlive said:

The love ballads on "Invincible" was the best thing about the album like some of the uptempo joints on "Dangerous" were the best thing about that album.

seeingvoices12 said:

You're not winning any arguments by saying that...

TyphoonTip said:

explain?



for example, I don't appreciate the majority of songs on prince album "The gold experience" but I will never generalize and say that the whole album is crap , get the point?

Saying that "Invincible" is a terrible album is an unrealistic overbroad statement.

seeingvoices12 said:

I'm not sure I have the energy for this any more.

Basically I'm pointing out that, despite you saying that 'Invincible' has some great songs and therefore can't be a shit album, I, and many others, can, will, and are allowed to, respectfully disagree.

I have no problem with you, or anyone else for that matter, liking this album. That's fine. That's what happens with music. Some things click with some and don't with others. It's just so happened that 'Invincible' failed to click with me in a big way. Now I could go through and itemise all the things I don't like about the songs you have listed, and the others you haven't, but hopefully you get my point and that won't be necessary. ...And frankly I wouldn't want to waste my time talking about songs I dislike.

Is that OK? Am I allowed not to like it?

...Now there isn't an emoticon to do this justice, so if you could do me a favour and picture me walking slowly backwards out of this thread trying to avoid eye contact.

TyphoonTip said:

of course you can have an opinion and its your right to have a different opinion, im talking when fans generalize albums and saying they are crap when in fact they are not...

but if you don't like the album as a whole, thats your taste and your opinion and i respect it but in my opinion there are too many albums to labled crap, Invinicble is not one of them...

TyphoonTip said:

I really liked Invincible when it first came out but grew to dislike it shortly after, but as time has gone by, I feel the album isn't as bad as I thought before. You can CLEARLY tell the flaws of the album. Many of the songs were too overproduced and some were too cheesy, or both

For me, the flaws were:
-Heartbreaker
-the title track (even though I have to admit I kinda like it)
-Speechless (saying you don't like this song is pretty much blasphemy to some fans)
-Privacy
-Cry(an obvious rip off of Man In The Mirror and Earth Song. Plus, I despise the person who wrote it)
-The Lost Children(no comment)
-Threatened

Now, if they had toned down the production on Invincible, extended Butterflies by 40 more seconds, replaced Privacy with maybe Fall Again, the album would've been awesome

this supposed version of Seeing Voices makes me wonder what the original version of the album would've sounded like

I think some of the urban R&B ballads like "Butterflies" and "Break of Dawn" were probably the original concept of the album and for some reason either MJ or Sony wanted Michael to update his "Dangerous" album, that's the only way I can respond to how "Invincible" turned out. Because "Invincible" actually had more ballads on a MJ album since 1975's "Forever, Michael" if anyone really noticed!

A little sidetracked but I couldn't resist jumping in on the Invincible topic.

For me the album took a few listens, but I think it was trying to be too much. Too many songs for a solid piece. I have actually cut the album down and resequenced it for my ipod and made it only 9 tracks. And its surprising how it holds together better.

I just feel that unlike History that had a lot of songs on it, MJ was feeling a little under pressure to hit every market and have another blockbuster hit. For me it suffered under its own ambition, too many songwriters, too many producers and less focus. That said I am not bagging out every track but it his least consistent release.

Swa

bboy87 said:

you were right about most of the tracks except speechless, im not gonna ask you why, thats your musical taste and i respect it, vocally it shows the greatness of his voice and its a beautiful melody.

The worst song on the album is "privacy", weak melody and unnatural vocals.

"Heartbreaker" is the most overproduced song on the album, but i think the bridge of the song is great , i love the bridge .

I always skip " Invinicble" , never liked it.

I don't care for " the lost children", for me "2000 watts" is worst.

other than that the album is good in general, "whatever happens" is just from another planet , Great song.

seeingvoices12 said:

"Privacy" was just plain garbage. Don't get me started on "Heartbreaker", "Invincible", "The Lost Children" and "2000 Watts".

"Speechless" would've been better if it was a little bit longer... that was one of the shortest songs I ever heard MJ ever do. "Threatened" is aight, so is "Unbreakable".

Other than that, it was good.

Swa said:

Yeah! Me too... I threw out "You are my life" and "The lost children" and I put "Shout" back in.. hmm, thinking about it, "2000 Watts" and "Privacy" could go too and it would be almost perfect.. well, as "perfect" as it could get with the choice of songs available!

seeingvoices12 said:

I'm gonna tell you why I didn't like Speechless. It didn't have anything to do with the vocals, which were great, but the song being put after a smooth R&B song like Butterflies didn't feel right. Not to mention I just felt it was cheesy....and I love cheesy songs. For example, I love Wham!'s Wake Me Up Before You Go Go and Credit Card Baby

PatrickS77 said:

My version of Invincible goes as follows:

1. Unbreakable
2. Heartbreaker
3. Butterflies
4. Threatened
5. Whatever Happens
6. You Rock My World
7. Break of Dawn
8. Invincible
9. Cry

My problem with Invincible is, that it has too many flaws which overshadow the good tracks. Especially the dance tracks are terrible. The first three songs sound alike, have all an "innovative" rap part in it. Threatened is even worse.
2000 Watts is a complete joke to me. It's plain awful.
The ballads are good. But some are too citchy. I much more prefer his ballads with a black feeling to them, but I somehow feel he can't feel a black ballad??
The Girl Is Mine, IJCSLY, Speechless are good examples of nice melody-song but are totally unblack.

It's just that I prefer the groovy MJ (that's why side A of OTW is one of the best record sides ever!!! imo!!!). If I'd edit out all the songs I dislike there were mostly ballads.

graecophilos said:

what is a "black feel"? Music has no race, black singers don't have to be "soulful" all the time and who said The Girl Is Mine, IJCSLY, Speechless are not soilful, whats considered soulful is subjective and relative to the person listening to it.

cdcgold said:

Speechless ain't soulful, it's sounds like a pop standard

i remember.


i was in 9th grade. my teacher asked me to bring in INVINCIBLE to listen to while we were having class.

( i dont remember what the hell we were doing, or NOT doing, to listen the whole cd during class, lol)

anyway. ig ot so exited about listening to michael during class, i totally forgot that not every song is catered to that.....particular audience ( a pretty much 99.7% black school in atlanta )

so the class was pretty much into it, nobody said nothing stupid...even during break of dawn....we was listenig to mike talk about fuckin and nobody said anything

rock with you heaven can wait, butterflies ( EVERBODY FUCKIN LOVED BUTTERFLIES )

Then Speechless came on.....















everybody was dead quiet


it was just too corny, im sorry. especially when the "choir" came in.....it made my teeth hurt. luckily we were leaving during Privacy...but yeah....it was corny. it threw the whole album off

I love "She Drives Me Wild." The car horns are a nice touch.

I know I'm in the minority, but give me "Heal the World" over "Gone Too Soon" any day. GTS is easily my least favorite track on the album.

She Drives Me Wild is a fun groove but hardly what I would consider one of his best songs.
And some of the tracks that were rejected (Superfly Sister, Blood On The Dance Floor, Someone Put Your Hand Out) are better than those that appeared on the album.

My favourite songs from Dangerous:

Jam
In The Closet
Remember The Time
Black Or White
Who Is It
Will You Be There

bboy87 said:

No matter, a soulful performance is a soulful performance regardless of which style you want to dress it up in. Speechless has a heartfelt vocal, and that's soulful to my ears.

AlexdeParis said:

Both are pretty sappy, huh. I'd prefer GTS, but not by much.

Cloudbuster said:

I'm still pissed to this day MJ didn't put "Someone Put Your Hand Out" on "Dangerous"!

Timmy84 said:

It should have replaced Heal The World.

Cloudbuster said:

For sure.

daPrettyman said:

No, it should've replaced "Gone Too Soon."

AlexdeParis said:

I like Gone Too Soon. He sings it beautifully and also it's a nice tribute to Ryan White. I'd take it over Heal The World in a heartbeat.