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Stevie Wonder, key changes and basslines 
The man's a master at writing lyrics and hooks. We get this. It's established. What I've never been able to fathom is how he manages to do it while keeping a song hummable amid a ton of key changes replete with wicked basslines. Case in point: "That Girl." The bassline is killer. Most folks would be happy to just have a bassline that carries the verse. But, by the time you're headed into the end of the verse, you get a crazy change to the bassline that nearly suggests a totally different key. The same goes for the bridge. Then there are the songs that actually feature key changes, like "Overjoyed." We're so caught up in the beauty of the verse that, by the time he gets to "I"ve come much to far for you now to say," that the corresponding detour just floors me every time (not to mention the intervening chord changes between those two keys). He's a genius, yes. But, what he pulls off so effortlessly is rooted in good old fashioned theory, jazz chops and guts. What are your favorite complex Stevie Wonder gems? | |
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ThreadBare said:
The man's a master at writing lyrics and hooks. We get this. It's established. What I've never been able to fathom is how he manages to do it while keeping a song hummable amid a ton of key changes replete with wicked basslines. Case in point: "That Girl." The bassline is killer. Most folks would be happy to just have a bassline that carries the verse. But, by the time you're headed into the end of the verse, you get a crazy change to the bassline that nearly suggests a totally different key. The same goes for the bridge. Then there are the songs that actually feature key changes, like "Overjoyed." We're so caught up in the beauty of the verse that, by the time he gets to "I"ve come much to far for you now to say," that the corresponding detour just floors me every time (not to mention the intervening chord changes between those two keys). He's a genius, yes. But, what he pulls off so effortlessly is rooted in good old fashioned theory, jazz chops and guts. What are your favorite complex Stevie Wonder gems? Golden Lady-i've cried so many time 2 this 1 it's so beautiful http://www.youtube.com/wa...A6OCGLCUec Do I Do-the horns are somethin else lol. u can feel the joy in this and you just start smilin man. http://www.youtube.com/wa...6f6BOKXXxg isn't she lovely-the harmonica solo gets me everytime..... http://www.youtube.com/wa...-n3Ydy7ras you will know-another one of many that bring tears.... http://www.youtube.com/wa...n78xqP9_mQ send one your love-the hidden gem from "secret life of plants" http://www.youtube.com/wa...MvVYCV-d8E | |
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Jesus Children Of America 
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ThreadBare said: What I've never been able to fathom is how he manages to do it while keeping a song hummable amid a ton of key changes replete with wicked basslines.
This is the very thing that threw Mary J. Blige for a loop on Superwoman... ...She couldn't realy "hear" the changes. The crowd may have fallen for all that screamin', but that couldn't make those notes work. tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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Since Golden Lady has already been selected, i'll go with...
...Heaven Is 10 Zillion Light Years Away tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said: ThreadBare said: What I've never been able to fathom is how he manages to do it while keeping a song hummable amid a ton of key changes replete with wicked basslines.
This is the very thing that threw Mary J. Blige for a loop on Superwoman... ...She couldn't realy "hear" the changes. The crowd may have fallen for all that screamin', but that couldn't make those notes work. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 I always found this performance uncomfortable; even if she was in key, less is still more mary =(. and I love the key changes on "My love, is at an end, but you say now, you havent changed" Thats what I love about stevies music, it takes you places, and I think thats what was best about his "classic" period; the melody really fit the mood of the lyric. [Edited 2/17/09 20:17pm] At this point in history, we have a choice to make
To either, walk the path of love, or be crippled by our hate -Stevie Wonder | |
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Stevie is so underrated when it comes to his basslines- I think its because he doesn't play a bass guitar, so hes not really a bass player, but a lot of his stuff is straight jamerson from motown. When I hear "Please Don't Go" I love the frantic synth bass playing, as well as All I Do. At this point in history, we have a choice to make
To either, walk the path of love, or be crippled by our hate -Stevie Wonder | |
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Dont know how complex they are but
Tuesday Heartbreak that interlude before Golden Lady Girl Blue Superwoman Dont Make Me Wait Too Long - Roberta Flack (the lyrics are almost better than the song) My Cherie Amour did he write that? | |
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he co-wrote Amour.
But he shouldn't go gigh a few notes at the end of songs. My friend studies classical music and I took him with the SW concert but one thing he dislikes is that thing with going up a note at the end. It's citchy and cliched. Jerry Wexler told that to George Michael in 1983 as well. It works on some songs but especially on some of his commercial songs from the 80s and 90s it sounds dreadful. | |
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graecophilos said: he co-wrote Amour.
But he shouldn't go gigh a few notes at the end of songs. My friend studies classical music and I took him with the SW concert but one thing he dislikes is that thing with going up a note at the end. It's citchy and cliched. Jerry Wexler told that to George Michael in 1983 as well. It works on some songs but especially on some of his commercial songs from the 80s and 90s it sounds dreadful. You don't have to study anything to feel that way it's a personal opinion. It can build a song and make it sound more powerful, for instance with "Ribbon In The Sky" and "Overjoyed" it works really well. Stevie has a lot of complex chords and for my own songwriting I kinda took over, now I automatically write songs with jazzy chords. Stevie fits in alotta 9th 11th and 13th chords and they fit like a charm, also he loves to use a different bassline as to what is expected with a chord....One of my faves has to be | |
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These are the primary reasons why I love his songs. I'm real particular about key changes and I like what and how he does it more than anyone which is often why his music makes me tear up.
This performance is wrong on so many levels. 
theAudience said: ThreadBare said: What I've never been able to fathom is how he manages to do it while keeping a song hummable amid a ton of key changes replete with wicked basslines.
This is the very thing that threw Mary J. Blige for a loop on Superwoman... ...She couldn't realy "hear" the changes. The crowd may have fallen for all that screamin', but that couldn't make those notes work. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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theAudience said: ThreadBare said: What I've never been able to fathom is how he manages to do it while keeping a song hummable amid a ton of key changes replete with wicked basslines.
This is the very thing that threw Mary J. Blige for a loop on Superwoman... ...She couldn't realy "hear" the changes. The crowd may have fallen for all that screamin', but that couldn't make those notes work. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 I love her but 
If this was at The Apollo, she woulda got...  | |
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NMuzakNSoul said: graecophilos said: he co-wrote Amour.
But he shouldn't go gigh a few notes at the end of songs. My friend studies classical music and I took him with the SW concert but one thing he dislikes is that thing with going up a note at the end. It's citchy and cliched. Jerry Wexler told that to George Michael in 1983 as well. It works on some songs but especially on some of his commercial songs from the 80s and 90s it sounds dreadful. You don't have to study anything to feel that way it's a personal opinion. It can build a song and make it sound more powerful, for instance with "Ribbon In The Sky" and "Overjoyed" it works really well. Stevie has a lot of complex chords and for my own songwriting I kinda took over, now I automatically write songs with jazzy chords. Stevie fits in alotta 9th 11th and 13th chords and they fit like a charm, also he loves to use a different bassline as to what is expected with a chord....One of my faves has to be I agree it works excellent on Ribbon In The Sky, but on I Just Called... it sounds horribly cliched. What I mean is, that he should have not used it that often. | |
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We all know Stevie can be a band between keyboards and drums, but the guys he's played with are on par with the bands' Miles had with him....
Bass-James Jamerson, Michael Henderson, Willie Weeks, Nate Watts, Abraham Laboriel, Malcolm Cecil, Reggie McBride Guitars-Dean Parks, Michael Sembello, David T. Walker Buzzy Feiton Keyboards/Synths/Organ-Greg Philliganes,Herbie Hancock, Ronnie Foster Background Vocals-Denice Williams, Minnie Ripperton, Syreeta Wright, Tasha Thomas, Lani Groves | |
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diamondpearl1 said: We all know Stevie can be a band between keyboards and drums, but the guys he's played with are on par with the bands' Miles had with him....
Bass-James Jamerson, Michael Henderson, Willie Weeks, Nate Watts, Abraham Laboriel, Malcolm Cecil, Reggie McBride Guitars-Dean Parks, Michael Sembello, David T. Walker Buzzy Feiton Keyboards/Synths/Organ-Greg Philliganes,Herbie Hancock, Ronnie Foster Background Vocals-Denice Williams, Minnie Ripperton, Syreeta Wright, Tasha Thomas, Lani Groves  awesome point. | |
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Have just been attempting to learn to play "overjoyed" by ear on acoustic guitar....
I'm up to about chord 15 in the first chorus. It's a fricken mission! 
Yet with all these chords and unusual changes going on, the song still manages to just flow in a cohesive and beautiful manner. Stevie's a songwriting marvel!  Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss... | |
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Making complexity accessible is definitely one of Stevie's major achievements. Is there anyone else who has been so harmonically complex and still catchy at the same time? Sting, maybe?
theAudience said: This is the very thing that threw Mary J. Blige for a loop on Superwoman...  I don't know who annoys me the most in that clip. Mary or the audience for actually applauding that shit. Is it any wonder we've got a generation of artless screamers when audiences are so easily conned?“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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This thread has put into words why Stevie is one of my all time favorite writers. | |
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...
Too High and Bird of Beauty 'Nuff Said..... Too High Bird Of Beauty ... ... " I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout | |
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midnightmover said: Making complexity accessible is definitely one of Stevie's major achievements. Is there anyone else who has been so harmonically complex and still catchy at the same time? Sting, maybe?
Sting is amazing at shifting textures through chord and rhythm changes.
I'd add to that list Wendy & Lisa and Jonatha Brooke. | |
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Cinnie said: This thread has put into words why Stevie is one of my all time favorite writers.
You're welcome. 
Wait til you get my bill, though. | |
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ThreadBare said: Cinnie said: This thread has put into words why Stevie is one of my all time favorite writers.
You're welcome.
Wait til you get my bill, though. Nice
How about this one, love the instrumentation | |
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This is exactly the type of thread that needs to be done more often for more artists.
Thank you, a great read about THE MUSIC>>>>> Music is the best... | |
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CoolTarik1 said: theAudience said: This is the very thing that threw Mary J. Blige for a loop on Superwoman... ...She couldn't realy "hear" the changes. The crowd may have fallen for all that screamin', but that couldn't make those notes work. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 I always found this performance uncomfortable; even if she was in key, less is still more mary =(. and I love the key changes on "My love, is at an end, but you say now, you havent changed" Thats what I love about stevies music, it takes you places, and I think thats what was best about his "classic" period; the melody really fit the mood of the lyric. [Edited 2/17/09 20:17pm] I love Mary but she was at her weakest vocally here, all that screaming, lol. I'm amused as others who sing with Stevie just scream-sing with him, he remains at his coolest and still does it his way, lol. But yeah I'm blown away by his music, he changes his sound halfway through the song, you're blown away by the end of the song. | |
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CoolTarik1 said: Stevie is so underrated when it comes to his basslines- I think its because he doesn't play a bass guitar, so hes not really a bass player, but a lot of his stuff is straight jamerson from motown. When I hear "Please Don't Go" I love the frantic synth bass playing, as well as All I Do.
Most of Stevie's post-1960s work is very Jamerson-inspired on the bass guitar-inspired synth bass groove. I noticed that too in some of Marvin's work. The Jamerson flow was always on his records too. | |
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