VoicesCarry said:

And like I said, I really wish my own experience hadn't lead me to ask this question, but it has. It is a stereotype without a doubt, but it's not an unfounded one.

jthad1129 said:

Agreed.

meow85 said:

That's cool.

VoicesCarry said:

Sterotypes are a natural way of seeing the world.
Otherwise we'd go crazy from all the information.
I don't care at all when Im getting stereotyped.
It's funny, and can be easily proved wrong when you interact witha person who looks at you through a streotype.

For example:
This girl in my class who has been courting me for a little while in a very innocent way found out i was gay. Next class she asked me to go shopping with her for clothes, cuz Im a "fashionista." The gayz are fashionistas, she said. Whe she said that i was wearing my 3yo oversized white T and 8 yo jeans, way way too tight in waist so I had to take one button off. I smelled like turpentine. I said: "Oh my, thank you, but I'm booked for this week. Im shopping with britney spears for her new meltdown era, starting spring 2009" and I started laughing so bad, every body else in class started giggling. My other firend, Kim, was quick to point out that this comment was rude, but I said its okay and i went to explain how I absolutely hate shopping, especially for clothes, as I am clueless about fashion. She was a bit perplexed but she def understood that not all gayz love shopping.
[Edited 12/17/08 20:13pm]

rushing07 said:

Yeah, that works if people are willing to listen.

VoicesCarry said:

It's unfortunate it's not though. But I love the way Rushing handled that.

VoicesCarry said:

This is not what this thread is about.
Re-read the question.

rushing07 said:

I was agreeing with the sentiment.

meow85 said:

Yo, Meow, can I ask you this? When you asked your gay friends why they like the artists you mention, what did they say? Did they give their reasons as to why they like them?
[Edited 12/17/08 20:24pm]

i love pop divas!!! i have since i was a little boy. my mom says she can't hear Madonna, Britney, Christina, Beyonce, Lady Gaga or whatever pop diva is hot at the moment and not think of me.


everyone else i know that has the pop diva gene says the same thing. it has always been my primary obession when it comes to music. from the time i got my first tapes of Control, Electric Youth, Let It Loose, Like A Prayer to everything i buy or download now if it's a pop diva i'm there.


when my ex and i broke up a year and half ago we got mad and hurled Kylie Minogue Tour Programs at each other, how gay is that? cause we both ADORE her and he had just gone to Oz to see her and blah blah blah they were handy and we threw them LOL
[Edited 12/17/08 20:27pm]

I guess it's like saying the same thing about Diana Ross, Dusty Springfield, Aretha Franklin, Bette Midler, Barbra Streisand, Judy Garland and 'em.

Timmy84 said:

i think Harry Hay's Mother Goddess theory has alot of weight.

ehuffnsd said:

Good point. I guess it comes with the territory, lol. Like if you were gay and you said shit about a pop diva, some will look at you like "what's your problem, she's the greatest!"

Timmy84 said:

the premise of Harry's essay was that spirituality and religion exist because gay men and women were free of the responsiblity of child therefore able to focus on things like the unknown. if you look at native cultures alot of shamans are homosexual/transgender and or thirdgender. as we through time devloped our pattern of being spiritual guides we devloped an affection for the Mother Goddessses of our tribes which is represented to day as pop divas. it was a really interesting essay.

I don't think this topic is homophobic, but it is necessarily objectifying... and folk don't like to be objectified. So we need to recognize upfront there will be fallout.

Here's my contribution:

After Stonewall and up through the '70s, dance music became a bit of an aesthetic pillar in the LGBT community, because at that very formative time in our development as a political and cultural bloc, it was the music of the club, one of the few places we could go out, have fun, be ourselves -- even being "flambuoyant" -- without being the proverbial elephants in the room, as VoicesCarry mentioned. It involved itself in carefree fun, abandon and even a certain cheekiness and occasional reflexive hedonism. While this was simply freeing music to most, it was perhaps the music of survival to the LGBT community. That cultural tradition, like most cultural traditions, trickled down generations to remain something key to many of us. And, these days, it just so happens that much of popular club music is easily accessible to young, untested talents like the bubblegum acts like you've mentioned, meow.

That young girls share a mutual interest in this style should come as no surprise. Perhaps like no other social group aside from gay men, they too struggle to self-define with respect to sexual expectations, who they are as whole people in relation to their sexuality, and what respect they would eventually command in society. In this respect, this shared music of survival and empowerment, of "becoming the diva," might also be considered the music of adolescence -- and, as Imago suggested, its not uncommon to hear of LGBT people, perhaps especially gay men, undergoing a deferred or prolonged adolescence as we, like burgeoning young women, must protractedly contend with claiming ourselves, our sexualities and our station in life commensurate to societal expectations.

Something else, though, about gay men that I think this conversation has overlooked thus far: We are often aesthetes both by default and necessity. When you're in chains, the world of the imagination -- art, music, poetry, literature -- becomes your sanctuary. So the more one would get out and intimately know LGBT people, the more they'll likely see that the world of the arts is extraordinarily explored by us. Common wisdom suggests we are overrepresented in domains like fashion, visual arts and design, culinary arts, literature, theatre, travel and, indeed, music.

I say this as more a suspicion than a criticism, meow, but if the gay men you've met leave you with the impression we have some "sameness" in musical taste -- and that said sameness is poised toward dancy, poppy boy bands and divas-in-training -- you are perhaps meeting gay men still overwhelmingly in their deferred adolescence. I don't mean this as a form of cultural cheerleading, but I've met few people as expansive where music, art, etc. is concerned (all things being equal) than older, more self-actualized gay men.
[Edited 12/17/08 20:46pm]

rushing07 said:

That's a great response. My music-loving buddy is similarly clueless about fashion and shopping, so he's also come up with some snappy answers for girls that want to drag him along shopping as a guide.

ehuffnsd said:

I can believe his theory.

Timmy84 said:

I tried asking both my friends and just casual aquaintances about their taste in music. A lot of the responses were along the lines of, "Cuz Britney's my girl, yo!"

That really doesn't answer anything.

Lammastide said:

Thanks for the thought-out answer.

I am referring specifically to younger gay men, so perhaps this "delayed adolescence" theory has a bit of truth to it.

Boybands, oddly enough, are not really as much in favour with young gay guys in spite of their sports team-like homoeroticism as young female singers are.

meow85 said:

That is to be expected.

meow85 said:

outside of pornstars there is little adoration i see for male celebrities in the gay community.

meow85 said:

Boy band music is not a good turn-on anyway. Who would wanna dance their ass to "The Right Stuff" or "I Think I Love You"? Plus many of them act like some pussies. Fuck outta here. "I care about the animals and the planet and the world and love" would be their response on teenybopper magazines. Fuck outta here.
[Edited 12/17/08 20:49pm]

Timmy84 said:

yeah because singing along to ROL is soo much better in the heat of the moment...

not that i've ever caught myself doing that....

meow85 said:

That's true. They're not. They are nice to look at from a sort of "straight boy fantasy" angle, but they have no real rapport with most gay men like a burgeoning young female artist or an older, self-honed diva might.

ehuffnsd said:

It's tempting, lol. Just play some Vanity 6, you won't be ashamed to catch yourself in that heat of the moment, lol!

Lammastide said:

that's where the harry hay theory comes in.

Timmy84 said:

inaya day had a great cover of that

Timmy84 said:

Maybe that's what's really behind my objections with the situation. Anyone else I've asked about their taste in music has been able to give a coherent reply.

Lammastide said:

Teen idols have a carefully crafted image, divas have more emotion and honestly could give a fuck (Aretha, Diana, Bette, etc.).

ehuffnsd said:

That by itself would be one hell of an interesting thing to look into.