midnightmover said:

You respond to my post as if you know me.

I called her articulate and compassionate because I've seen her in interviews, read articles on her, watched footage on her and had a friend who worked with her brother Rashad who had great stories to tell of she and her brother.

Her looks are what non-fans seem to constantly bring up when they're espousing on why she wasn't worth the bit of attention she got. Just check up thread. Her appearance is obvious. The other aspects not so much which is why I pointed them out.

I never stated that Aaliyah was more or less articulate and thoughtful than Brandy or anybody esle for that matter. I stuck with Aaliyah. Not sure why you introduced Brandy.

I'm well aware that there is a biased toward people who are deemed attractive or beautiful. I think Beyonce is attractive as well, but do not find her articulate. Is she compassionate and thoughtful? She could be but I don't know but I'd say she's ambitious and a hard worker from what I've seen, read, and watched. I don't just go throwing out random traits without having a clue and I don't think looks makes a person infallible.

JackieBlue said:

Well, since most people aren't even aware of how much they're swayed by looks, it makes sense that you would tell yourself her looks are not important. And the reason I mentioned Brandy I would've thought was obvious. No one ever said these fine words about her, yet I don't see any evidence that she was any less "thoughtful" or "compassionate", so why was Aaliyah always spoken of like Mother Theresa and not Brandy? Wasn't she just as nice a person? What's the difference? Could it not be that Aaliyah was beautiful and Brandy wasn't?

And by the way, Beyonce is really not beautiful. She's certainly not in the same category as Aaliyah when it comes to looks. You could look at Aaliyah all day and never get bored. That's the key to her appeal. Lord knows it certainly wasn't her intellect or her talent. As for the ambition thing, let's not forget who Aaliyah was dating.... DAMON DASH!! Would a compassionate and sensitive woman really be in a long term relationship with DAMON DASH?!

midnightmover said:

I told myself her looks were not important? Really. Uh.. okay.

I've heard plenty of people say that Brandy was well-spoken or articulate and she certainly has presence. That might be how she got 2 sitcoms under her belt. You could have just asked how I felt about Brandy. I can't account for what people don't say about Brandy.

As for looks, people see everyone differently. There are particular attributes that make some individuals attractive on a larger scale. Beyonce, Aaliyah, Brandy, whoever. It's all relative. I brought up looks because Aaliyah is often reduced to simply looks, while her talent is overshadowed.

And lastly, who knows why she was involved with Damon? This is the same young person who was involved with R. Kelly so obviously there may have been some poor choices along the way regarding relationships. But being compassionate doesn't mean you don't pick bad mates. As a matter of fact, it might be a proponent of such choices because you tend to have more sympathy and patience for others.

All this is beside the point which I was trying to make previously on why real fans feel the way they do about Aaliyah. This other stuff is extraneous.
[Edited 1/23/09 10:43am]

JackieBlue said:

Right, and you don't think the fact that those two assholes were powerful and influential had anything to do with it, huh? Just a coincidence? Don't keep those blinkers on for too long. You might hurt yourself.

As for looks being relative, that's a disingenuous comment. Much more people in this society would see Aaliyah as beautiful than Brandy. That's a fact. You may choose to believe that's irrelevant, but everything we know about human nature tells us otherwise.

JackieBlue said:

Well, since most people aren't even aware of how much they're swayed by looks, it makes sense that you would tell yourself her looks are not important. And the reason I mentioned Brandy I would've thought was obvious. No one ever said these fine words about her, yet I don't see any evidence that she was any less "thoughtful" or "compassionate", so why was Aaliyah always spoken of like Mother Theresa and not Brandy? Wasn't she just as nice a person? What's the difference? Could it not be that Aaliyah was beautiful and Brandy wasn't?

And by the way, Beyonce is really not beautiful. She's certainly not in the same category as Aaliyah when it comes to looks. You could look at Aaliyah all day and never get bored. That's the key to her appeal. Lord knows it certainly wasn't her intellect or her talent. As for the ambition thing, let's not forget who Aaliyah was dating.... DAMON DASH!! Would a compassionate and sensitive woman really be in a long term relationship with DAMON DASH?!

speaking of aaliyah and beyonce:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

And just to clarify my point, the reason I'm saying people ascribe beautiful people with qualities they don't really have is precisely because I've seen interviews with Aaliyah too, and she was certainly not articulate, or any more thoughtful than any other young pop star as has been falsely claimed. On the contrary she always came across as not having much to say. If she'd lived longer, no doubt she would have developed a more fully formed personality, but as it was, her most noticeable quality was her averageness.

midnightmover said:

You're right. She had a "sisterly" quality about her (for lack of a better word). Its was indeed the "she-ain't-done-nothin'-to-nobody" aspect of her personality that was most noticeable. I think often when someone has an average Joe/Average Jane personality, it becomes even more tragic when something happens to them because it brings it much closer to home because people can relate so well to the person. For Aaliyah, its a bit more than just averageness. She had an innocent quality to her. Partially because she was pretty, partially because she had a frail physique and partially because of her personality. When you add all of those things up, you get a "type" that appeals to the nurturing side of people.

midnightmover said:

You're right. She had a "sisterly" quality about her (for lack of a better word). Its was indeed the "she-ain't-done-nothin'-to-nobody" aspect of her personality that was most noticeable. I think often when someone has an average Joe/Average Jane personality, it becomes even more tragic when something happens to them because it brings it much closer to home because people can relate so well to the person. For Aaliyah, its a bit more than just averageness. She had an innocent quality to her. Partially because she was pretty, partially because she had a frail physique and partially because of her personality. When you add all of those things up, you get a "type" that appeals to the nurturing side of people.

As I read this, I am interpreting that if Aaliyah was an average Joe/Jane with an average Joe/Jane personality, people would take her death more seriously. It's funny that among the living that many people don't take attractive women seriously whether they're articulate or not. However, they'll take an attractive man MORE seriously. Look at Obama. Aside from charisma, they took him more seriously than Alan Keyes, remember him and he had some valid points during the campaign? I believe that looks and sex do play a factor on how people perceive you.

angel345 said:

I have no idea why you would interpret that in that way. Aaliyah was an entertainer and entertainers who are in the mass media like Aaliyah was are usually attractive people. I'd say her death was taken pretty seriously. I would also beg to differ that many attractive women are taken seriously. How you present yourself plays a larger factor. The job of an entertainer being what it is, most level-headed people of reasonable intelligence would determine whether or not to take someone seriously according to what they say rather than who they are. Entertainers' jobs are often to deceive (actors, etc.) or help one escape from reality (singers, etc.), so the very nature of their work is rooted in what would lend itself to question sincerity.
Aaliyah displayed a degree of humility that made her more appealing. Instead of they typical I'm-better-than-you attitude that many celebs have, Aaliyah was much more down-to-earth and humble. That quality alone is attractive. Since she was an entertainer, the need to "take her seriously" is less significant. The reality of things however, is that the cult of personality mentality that America has towards celebrities tends to overly romanticize anything that happens to or comes out of a celeb's mouth.


As to Alan Keyes, are we talking about the "Jesus Christ would not vote for Barack Obama" Alan Keyes?

BlaqueKnight said:

I have noticed and society would not acknowledge that when it comes to sex and looks, they are biased. Attractive women are more favored, but are more criticized, though everyone has flaws. Agreed, it takes a level headed mind to use better judgement. They see Aaliyah as a pretty face that "climbed the ladder" so to speak, despite her good packaging. Beyonce is perceived as another pretty face, but not as articulate. I remember back in the 90's the Muslim author Shaharazad Ali wrote a book named "The Blackman's Guide To Understanding The Black Woman". Though a lot of what she said was true,and I am not Muslim, she was scorned and also criticized for her good looks because of the slave master so they say. You take someone like Maya Angelou, who is not exactly physically attractive, but writes inspirational poems, and the world takes her very seriously.

Politically, Palin was seen as very attractive, but took most of the heat for being not articulate and wearing expensive suits than McCain, and both are not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree. As for Keyes, Obama's religion has always been the object of debate, but let's see what he does for these four years. Honestly, I don't believe that Jesus would vote for any of them because He was about His Father's business.