The Org reminds me more and more of when I used to visit MJ boards.

SoulAlive said:

I have nothing against madonna , and i don't have a problem with her picking new producers for new albums, and when i said trends I didn't mean hot producers, Don't put words into my mouth ..LOL

I always laugh at people when they compare Madonna to Mj or Prince regardless of the comparison's nature, because its one of dumbest comparison I have ever seen, MJ and prince built their own career based on RAW TALENT and Madonna on controversy and sex, you cannot debate that, its a known fact and, again whether she is releasing albums or not , that doesn't make her career greater than MJ, I would rather get a great album in 15 years other than crap ,silly, overproduced albums every year.

SoulAlive said:

I think its time to give the man a freaking break, MJ has been performing since he started to crawl....I don't care how people look at Mj these days,because at the end, Madonna will never ever matter like MJ .

I love this dialog.....when u produce your OWN work, as Prince does, this conversation becomes MUTE.

seeingvoices12 said:

In which way did MJ matter in the last 15 years? Really, I'm sure Madonna changed more people's life in the last 15 years.
As a MJ fan by myself I think it's a damn lie saying: I'd rather have a good album evry 15 years than an overproduced album every year.
That's not true. Also Madonna's albums are not overproduced to me. I.e. the Music album is raw whereas Invincible is really overproduced.

graecophilos said:

Changed more people lifes? This is a laugh right?

Again , continually releasing albums doesn't Make shit. it won't make her greater than MJ or make her career greater than MJ in anyway, Thats like saying Michael jackson's career is greater than James browns because James brown is dead and not releasing albums anymore , Give me a break ,you guys are on crack for comparing a zero talent with a great talent...and yeah I would get a great album in years other than shit album every year, aslo some of the tracks on invinicble overproduced not the whole album...saying that the whole album is overprpduced is a lie, butterfiles alone is better than anything madonna released in 10 years.

graecophilos said:

MJ will always Matter, whether its 15, 20 or 40 years, because of his mind-blowing accomplishments and talents , even hinting that MJ won't not matter because she hasn't released something in years is silly and absurd.
[Edited 12/16/08 13:56pm]

seeingvoices12 said:

You have nothing against her yet you're dead sure she's a no talent who's been around for 25 years? Riiight.

Madonna's career is built around great pop songs. Once again, no artist can have a career based on controversies, that doesn't even make sense. You think Madonna was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame because of sex and controversy?

And saying it's better to have a great album every 15 years instead of an overproduced one every year is just a sad way of being in denial instead of accepting that MJ fucked over his fans when he never officially retired and has been supposedly working on a new album for years already.

Cinnamon234 said:

With all fairness, That video was not great at all ,its not because of how Mj looks, but that video itself was horrible and not entertaining,certainly not one of his best.

LiveToTell86 said:

Yeah I have nothing against madonna, I said what i should say and thats my opinion , she is a zero talent, with no musical intgerity whatsoever , thats my opinion , and that doesn't mean that I have something against her as a person.

IM not in denial, I know how MJ works, and i know that we have to wait years and years to get a new album,and i would rather wait to get a great new album other than a crap album evey year that i listen to it today and forget it the other day.

seeingvoices12 said:

To who?

JackieBlue said:

lol.....u all are cold blooded.

Graycap23 said:

Like Rick James.

Timmy84 said:

But I wasn't trying to be. I'm just asking.

seeingvoices12 said:

So you thought Invincible was worth the 6 year wait? Some great tracks sure, Whatever Happens, Butterflies etc, but the majority was sloppy & unfocused. Your opinion that Madonna releases crap albums every year is just that, an opinion.

Just as people like me have gradually lost interest in mJ since Dangerous, u dont like madonna.....and your point is? U think Madonna has no talent - fine go play thriller again. no loss to any madonna fan.

CrozzaUK said:

LOL...If there is a good track by madonna i would dig it,or if she did something great I would say that what she did was great, however I would never take her seriously as an artist, I have nothing against madonna, you don't find me in every madonna thread bashing her or insulting her like many people do here to Mj but when people compare her to MJ artistic-wise or talent-wise then i must say something against this nonsense.

Its really ridiculous and silly to say that Madonna still working hard, releasing albums, tours so she is better than MJ, thats the dumbest thing i ever heard....

also that sarcastic remark" Go and play thriller" is really ridiculous and Unnecessary , I listen to real artists Absolutely madonna is not one of them.

I have a theory that on each Madonna album there's at least one track that is a precursor to the next album - so she's subliminally easing you into her next project.

Borderline could have been on the Like A Virgin album. It's much poppier and mainstream than the rest of the debut album.

Over And Over could have been on the True Blue album. Over And Over is just as inane and pointless as White Heat!

Where's The Party could have been on the Who's That Girl album. It even seems to have the same synth-bass sound as used on Causing A Commotion and Who's That Girl.

The Look Of Love could have been on the Like A Prayer album. It's got this sparse moody quality which Spanish Eyes and Love Song also have.

Promise To Try could have been on the I'm Breathless album. It sounds like a show-tune or something from a movie. Slow and piano-led, like Something To Remember.

Vogue could have been on the Erotica album. It's got that same slow "dang, dang, dang" house piano which is all over the Erotica album.

Waiting could have been on the Bedtime Stories album. It's almost the same tempo and vibe as Secret.

Bedtime Story could have been on Ray Of Light. Bedtime Story really doesn't fit the flow of the actual Bedtime Stories album. Its bleepy techno trance would fit much better on Ray Of Light.

Little Star could have been on Music. It's got the same dreamy quality as What It Feels Like For A Girl.

Gone could have been on American Life. No need for an explanation here.

Die Another Day could have been on Confessions On A Dancefloor. Yeah - I was reaching a bit here, but play it back-to-back with Let It Will Be and you'll hear what I mean.

How High could replace Devil Wouldn't Recognize You on Hard Candy. They're both forgettable and shit!

So, that's why Madonna is a genius at reinvention and everybody else isn't.

LiveToTell86 said:

on my way back home i thought about that stupid opinion that Madonna's famous because of controversies. I mean, yes, she manipulated the public and pushed buttons. But she has perfectly catchy pop songs released... for 25 years now, without a major break in it.
Listen, when I was little, as a German 5-year old I didn't know about Madonna's controversies. I just knew that I liked her songs on the radio (I'm sure often I didn't even know it was her). So, how could this be the case if she's only be popular because of her scandals?

GirlBrother said:

you obviously love her.

graecophilos said:

I'm indifferent, to tell you the truth.

JackieBlue said:

Yeah I know, I was just fucking around.

seeingvoices12 said:

I enjoy some of MJ and Prince's music (but not as much as Madonna), but they have relied on controversy and sex just as much if not more than she has. Look at the way MJ and Prince dress, Mj grabbing his crotch, Prince's sexual lyrics and stage antics. It's laughable to say they rely purely on talent, and not on controversy and sex.

Because she's Madonna, people expect her to 're-invent herself' because that's what she's become known for. I just see it as being her gimmick. That's always been her image, so to me, it's not a new thing; and, I still don't get all the praise she gets for doing something that everyone should try to do at some point in their lives naturally. Change is life and re-invention is just change after all. Personally, I stopped being surprised by Madonna after 'Bedtime Stories'. I find her pretty predictable nowadays because she's always going to incorporate something shocking and trendy into her music, style, and concerts because that's what she's always done.

From the rolling across the floor and dry humping it on the first VMAs in a wedding gown; to having a black Jesus in a video with burning crosses; to putting sex on full display in the form of a coffee table book; to writing children's books about her daughter; to making out with two former Mousketeers on stage and then dry humping another; to hanging from a cross, Madonna has built her career and life around staying in the public eye by doing and saying shocking things. She loves attention, always has and always will; and what grabs peoples' attentions more than constant change and shock value?

MJ and George Michael have pretty much shocked themselves out IMO. Plus, MJ has re-invented himself more than Madonna ever will...look at his face. Not dogging him, but let's be honest, dude looks NOTHING like his original self (that's some hardcore re-invention right there), so where does he go from there when many people have a hard time understanding why he took his appearance to such an extreme. George Michael has been battling drug addiction for quite some time now, so it's hard to focus on music when getting high seemed to be his number one priority a large amount of the time. Madonna is just in a totally different place from MJ and GM, personally and professionally, so it's hard to compare her to these two.


Plus, I don't think she's original, never really have, but she is smart at marketing herself. I'm not that into new Madonna, but I do respect and commend her for her amazing business savvy. Her new music really doesn't do much for me and I wouldn't be able to whole-heartedly defend it in a debate, but let someone bring up old Madonna and I'm ride-or-die about that stuff. Let the "Holiday" remix with "Music Sounds Better With You" come on and I'm gonna lose my mind...damn, I love that song! Awesome remix! With 'Hard Candy", Madonna is guilty of the same things that Janet and Mariah are guilty of on their recent albums...jumping on the bandwagon of what's popular at the moment. They are all trying to gain a younger audience, because very few artists, no matter how big their fanbases, are going to be content with their same number of die-hard fans and no newbies. They want new fans because new fans bring in more money. Being innovative and original is not following trends and that's ultimately what they all did...very disappointing to me, but that's just me. I'll always admire her and respect how far she's made it by simply being a very smart hustler, but my love for her musically has faded for now. Just my

GirlBrother said:

sure!

seeingvoices12 said:

When artists work with "trendy" producers,that means they are following musical trends.There's nothing wrong with this (Michael and Madonna are pop artists,after all),but don't come on here acting like SHE is the one who is follwing trends and he's not.He's been following musical trends since 'Dangerous' in 1991.




Funny,"overproduced" is the exact term I would use to describe 'Invincible'.It's a glossy,overproduced,commercial R&B album...nothing more,nothing less.And if you truly believe that Michael can make a "great" album with the lame shit hop producers that he is currently working with,keep dreaming.



Every few years,Madonna has a Top 10 hit single,an album that tops the charts in over 30 countries and a tour that easily grosses nearly $300 million.I'd say she is doing MUCH better than Michael is these days.She will always "matter".

GirlBrother said:

Wow,that's pretty deep You make a valid point.

seeingvoices12 said:

MJ used to matter.He used to be known as a truly talented,gifted,creative ARTIST who delivered the goods.These days,no one's even focused on all that.He's in the news for things that have absolutely nothing to do with his music.I don't think it's a stretch to say that he's made a real mess of his career.

seeingvoices12 said:

Look...if you think Michael is the best,by all means,go listen to his old records and count how many years it will be until the next tour happens As long as you're happy,that's all that matters,right? That's not enough for me.I want to enjoy NEW music and NEW tours from my favorite artists,on a regular basis.I don't wanna wait ten years between albums.I don't wanna have to settle for useless compilations.But hey,to each his own

CrozzaUK said:

Good question

seeingvoices12 said:

I wouldnt hesitate to say that since the very beginning of her career madonna has had more input in the music she makes than MJ has. Wether you like it or not, its music that has sold massively, so she has done something right.Im not gonna get into saying one is more talented than the other because they cant really be compared.

MJ got into the industry as a child in the late 60's, his career was made and guided for him by the Motown machine (dont get me wrong - i know it was his talent & appeal that ultimately sold the J5). Since that point he had the best environment to help nurture his act.

Madonna emergerd at the age of 24 from the lower east club scene in New York in the early 80's. She got signed off of a 4 track demo tape featuring songs written by her and Steve Bray. During this time she was no doubt taking inspiration from the scene around her, both in fashion, style & music - but it was her decisions and effort that ultimately propelled her into the limelight.

Neither is better than the other - they've both acheived amazing things through talent and hard work.

Timmy84 said:

Yesssss