I agree that Madonna knows how to market herself, but she has always been overrated. MJ can still sit back for years, and not cut another album, but still maintain his much bigger fanbase. MJ doesn't have to work as hard as Madonna to keep his fans. His fanbase ranges from children to the elderly. He keeps them guessing and wondering. Also, he's got the Sony/ATV catalogue and big royalties, so he's set for life.

angel345 said:

well, I think M's setter for life...

speeddemon said:

"I Am Love" is metal? Don't you mean funk-rock? As for "I Bet You"? It ain't "acid soul", it's "psychedelic soul", which was actually a genre, lol. Acid soul? LOL "Beat It" was pop-rock.

speeddemon said:

Too bad it's never gonna happen. If he releases a new album in 2010 or something, CD sales will be so low that he's not going to break records. Perhaps that's why he stopped making music, he's afraid of not being able to compete in the current market.

angel345 said:

Releasing a compilation album every year does not mean he's keeping his fanbase. Sure, there are some who buy everything he releases, but his compilations sell because the public wants to get the big hits on a CD. It's naive to believe MJ's fanbase is bigger than Madonna's, most people think of MJ as a nostalgia act and say "I love Thriller" that doesn't equal a strong fanbase, does it? Madonna's fanbase is not stale, with the style changing, she gets new fans and loses old fans. Sure, there are always people getting into MJ's old stuff but it's easier to do it if you release some new music and go on tour instead of just rehashing your old hits.

As for Madonna, it all comes with how she has marketed herself. It really has nothing to do with her music. For her music and marketing go hand-in-hand.

LiveToTell86 said:

i agree withe very syllable

PricelessHo said:

That says it all. Reinvention is what Madonna represents and the fact that she's 50 and still going strong supports it. The only thing is where before she was ushering the latest dance genres now she's just hopping on the bandwagons of the current styles and being even more shocking for attention. Trying to stay relevant. Keep food the table now that she has to go back and punch a clock again.

17dayz said:

What has Madonna done recently that's particularly shocking? Unless you are shocked to see someone in a leotard, I hardly think there's anything that shocking in her current tour. Certainly not compared to her Sex book days.

graecophilos said:

I believe that he has stop making music because record companies would not give it the proper promotion and from my understanding, he's a free agent. The trial and allegations have hurt his rep. I have just listened to the 'Invincible' album tracks, and to me it was out of this world. Sony did not promote it as heavily and MJ was very disappointed. To my understanding, the 'History' and 'Invincible' album did well oversees. American fans are more critical of him. Now let's talk about touring. If he started a tour today or tomorrow, the tour sales would blow Madonna off the map, and you would have more girls and dudes crying and fainting over him.

angel345 said:

well, the album sold 8 mio right? that was good even for 2001, but, of course, bad in comparism to Thriller. How much did it sell? one billion copies (without Thriller 25 and the 2001 re-re-release). The problem with invincible is, beneath the fact that the dance tracks are awful imo, that the casual or even non fan doesn't know ANY of these tracks. If he's in a shop and sees BAD and Invincible. He looks at Bad and knows every track and what does he know of Invincible? poor promotion was surely one problem, but what did MJ do? A damaging 30 years anniversary show where he was full of drugs.

graecophilos said:

To my understanding, 'History' sold 20 million albums worldwide. Agreed, his later albums have never exceeded 'Thriller', but he is the biggest selling artist. Yes, Madonna's tour is doing extremely well to my understanding, but her record sales have declined, compared to her earlier years. A strip-tease dance with Justin Timberlake didn't help much to boost it.
[Edited 12/14/08 13:41pm]
[Edited 12/14/08 13:42pm]

angel345 said:

Everybody's record sales declined since the "earlier days". The "strip-tease dance with JT" gave her the second double Platinum single of her career. I know MJ fans are obsessed with CD sales but that's not how they measure popularity now. If MJ released a new album in 2009, it would sell half of Invincible at most because of the way the industry is today.

Yes, if MJ toured now, that would be huge, but it would be the nostalgia factor as well. People would want to see him doing the original "Thriller" choreography etc, and that would be good for only one tour, he wouldn't be able to hold a touring career for 10 years like Madonna is doing now with her new contract.

And I agree with graeco, if MJ really wanted to promote Invincible, he could have pulled a Madonna and did a tour instead of whining about Sony not funding more than 2 videos. Warner did shit for Hard Candy but Madonna was smart and announced the tour just a week after the CD came out. Of course back then it was still CD sales in the focus, but MJ probably just wanted to sit back and see the album flying off the shelves as if it was 1987.

LiveToTell86 said:

that's very true. and that's what I love about Madonna's tours. She's the only one who can fill half of the show with her NEW songs. Wheareas Dinosaurs like Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Prince and George Michael are expected to do the same shit every time. It would be the same with Michael.
He's really caught in a trap. If he'd perform Billie Jean differently his fans would be dissapointed. If he'd perform it the way he did in 1983 I'm sure people would see a big difference (he's gotten older, you know..).

When Madonna first came on the scene in the eighties, MJ had almost twenty years of show business experience under his belt. I don't believe that he spent forty- five years in the business as a fool. I think it is a combination of stubborness, burnt-out, and fear. I also remember someone mention trust issues. Honestly, I will give Madonna credit,for her marketing and business knowledge, though I'm not a fan of hers.

It's silly to compare Michael and Madonna's careers because,let's face it,Michael has basically retired from music and touring.He's out of the game.He's forever "working on a new album" and yet it never seems to materialize.Madonna is getting ready to wrap up her fourth tour of this decade.

These days,Michael only releases compilation albums.

angel345 said:

Call me crazy,but I'd rather that my favorite artists give me NEW MUSIC and NEW TOURS to enjoy.I'd rather that they didn't take 8 or 10 years to release a new album.I think it's sad and unfair that MJ fans can only get excited about the useless compilations that he keeps releasing,containing the same songs each time.




Keeps them "guessing and wondering" about what? How many decades it will be until he tours again?




If he's doing so well financially,why did he lose Neverland and is getting ready to auction off many of his belongings?

SoulAlive said:

exactly. i bet it hurts to auction the Neverland's door! And one of his gloves. He needs money to pay his depths. Some people still want to think he's that really rich guy but he ain't.
I mean, how much money did he really earn with invincible? Didn't the production cost him 20 mio Dollars? how paid this?

angel345 said:

Record sales tell only part of the story.Michael may have sold more records than Madonna,but her career is in a much healthier state than his.You never hear about her having financial problems,losing her home,or having to auction off her belongings,do you? She doesn't have the same image problems that MJ has.

I still don't understand how Invincible suffered from poor promotion. Who didn't know Michael Jackson was releasing a new album?

LiveToTell86 said:

I really find it laughable how some Madonna fans like to make it seem as though she is so much bigger worldwide than Michael is and act like she's the biggest pop star of all time when she is not. Mike is really the only one who can compete with Madonna on a global scale and you guys know this. It's just plain silly to assume that his fanbase isn't at least equal to hers.

Now it's true he hasn't released new music in a while and is seen as a nostalgia act and rightfully so since he's been out of it for a while, but believe it or not he has gained fans from the trial and youtube as well. And nostalgia act or not, his back catalogue sells better than pretty much anyone in his peer group including Madonna. Madonna seems to maintain her fanbase and caters to them and that's why they keep buying her records. I don't think she's gained so many new fans over the years, she just caters to her fanbase.

Fact of the matter though is that at the end of the day, both Madonna and Michael are big worldwide and have big fanbases. Their worst selling albums (American Life & Invincible) have still sold more than a lot of people's best selling albums.

graecophilos said:

come on she's a very basic singer and very basic dancer....she is not an artist in any shape or form.....music forget about it...please ...she just a girl who had a great look(body more than face) in the 80's and nice pop tunes...how her career has lasted this long is down to the fact their are very few "white girls" who can sing and dance or want to that, Why is Britney so big, just like madonna she can't sing or dance that great but its just enough to get buy pure marketing of very little talent..

SoulAlive said:

Look at you. You're guessing and wondering about him. He has played this game with the public for years but you know what? Let's continue to see what happens, if you will. Another thing to consider. If he were to sell his 50% share of Sony today or tomorrow, and Sony would love that, he would be sitting on a 15 billion dollar net worth. Personally, I believe that he's playing broke or how else would a broke man still has an estate in Bahrain, New York, and I believe Ireland, pay for a $50,000 place in Las Vegas as well and still go shopping in Beverly Hills?

JackieBlue said:

You know it, I know it, and MJ knows that whenever he releases his albums, it comes with a big time promotion. "Thriller", "Bad", and "Dangerous" was constantly on the radio, but "History" and "Invincible", barely. That's why he was disappointed when Sony didn't give it big time promotion.

angel345 said:

I hope he wasn't expecting the kind of airplay he received back in the days. That's not going to happen.

LondonStyle said:

I have wondered myself how her career lasted this long. I remember when she and Cyndi Lauper came out around the same time, but Cyndi never got the credit and hype that Madonna has, and she can sing circles around her. Again, it's about business, marketing, and it's not what you know, but who you know.

angel345 said:

Did anyone see the video for You Rock My World...man i was in shock have you ever seen a guy so ....so....so...stiff, white, ill...everyone was saying that's not MJ look at him...he like some kind of alien

I think that killed the CD right their....get back with the brothers MJ before its too late..

Yes, MJ's look in "You Rock My World" was horrible. It seems like even he's aware he looks bad in the video, it's painful to watch. I hardly ever watch that video.

Cinnamon234 said:

http://uk.youtube.com/wat...3wShd_bX8A

plastic fantastic...

LondonStyle said:

YRMW was a downer. I just think even with his loyal fan base, times and things have changed. He can’t and should not expect the same airplay, sales or reactions he’s received in the past. If he didn’t like the promotion of Invincible then get out there and do it yourself. Find alternative ways to promote your album. Look at what Prince and NIN have done. An artist of Michael’s stature shouldn’t be that dependent on his record company.

Graycap23 said:

and she is a marketing ploy.

she is an elaborate ad campaign for the people who decide what is the next in thing.

she pays for it too, its not her ideas, she buys other peoples ideas.