this topic alone, makes me almost cry.

I just don't see it, get it, understand it, period.

I listen and I find his delivery lazy, his beats boring, and his songs don't move me at all.

The fact that his name is mentioned as an artist offends me greatly.

Sly, Stevie, George, James those were artists.

And I agree with LD, either Ryan Adams, Beck, or Aimee Mann have had the best catalog in the last 4 yrs.

aalloca said:

they aren't connecting with the general public.

Cinnie said:

Thank god they are not.

general public is listening to z100 and thinking that is cutting edge sh*t.

There was a time when pop music was good, 70's and 80's charts had r&b, funk, rock, singer songwriters for the most part doing really good stuff.

Cinnie said:

because the public is stupid for the most part. BUT artist of the decade has nothing to do with being "popular", thats something totally different. Artistically no one in the mainstream would even be close to being "artist of the decade", i love when i hear things like "pushing the envelope" "taking risks" for artists that are 100% calculated in everything they do.

Cinnie said:

And how is that known? because of a chart position? an artist like a Beyonce or Kanye has the benefit of everything being done for them, magazine covers, videos, tv show interviews, etc...trust me if you put any artist up someones ass 24/7 they would connect with them.

It's funny, if I didn't agree with the topic title, I wouldn't even bother clicking on the thread. Why do people who don't like Kanye or any artist for that matter, continue to waste their time in threads for people they don't even like?

Anyway, I do usually enjoy his songs, I agree sometimes his ego gets the best of him, although quite a few times he's been 100% right with what he's said. I think it's great we even have an artist this decade willing to say whatever the fuck he wants regardless of the public outcry. How many boring, fence sitting artists do we have these days? Majority of them wouldn't know a real opinion if it hit em in the face yet we keep tearing down the one guy making pop news somewhat interesting. I'd rather hear what Kanye next has to say, then hear about Paris Hilton's latest perfume.

His singles are great, y'all need to listen to Gold Digger again! His videos are always cutting edge and bring new, creative ideas to pop and hip hop. He hardly ever just sits in a club with booty hoes bouncing all around him, his videos are actually enjoyable to watch. (Yes, I know Gold Digger had lots of booty girls, but it was kind of fitting for the topic at hand!)

I just think people see him losing it and get turned off, which is a shame, it should be about the music yet people just focus on his tantrums.

purplesweat said:

But thats the thing, he is different to an extent, though their are other far more cutting edge than him for these times, but he is also "calculated", there is no way he could deal with "not sellling" or being the "center of attention" i guarantee if his albums stopped moving, he would be doing songs with tpain and akon tomorrow

lastdecember said:

and hes already done songs with t-pain while he was already selling plenty, so what exactly is your point there?

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

he would do anything to sell, if the bottom fell out he would do whatever it took to sell, rather than being "artistic". Thats the point

lastdecember said:

Lol, do you know him personally or something? Don't you think making a record like 808s is risky enough to prove he doesn't care about selling all that much?

purplesweat said:

exactly, what about turning tears for fears onto hip-hop fans isnt risky? or do you just enjoy to banter kanye topics for your enjoyment?

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

Plus, he defends gay people all the time, basically unheard of in rap or hip hop.

beyonce and kanye's videos are the ones I looked forward to the most this decade

You have GOT to be kidding. I can think of about fifty-leven other groups that would easily be on top of him.

LondonStyle said:

i agree

he is excellent

lastdecember said:

That defines Britney Spears in a nutshell too, yet for some oddball reason she is being dubbed the new queen of pop by many people (mostly her fans) and is being praised for being just as much of a commercial success driven puppet as Kanye and Beyonce; except Beyonce and Kanye actually try to produce and write a majority of their material. Even if it's not all that amazing they at least don't pay others to do the majority of the work for them on the bulk of their musical catalog and then take loads of undeserved credit and praise for it. If one is going to be bad mouthed than all should be bad mouthed if they all have similar attributes. The majority of main stream artists are puppets and/or products, some are just waaay worse than others, but they are all pathetic media whores after everything is all said and done. But, hey, money rules the world. Just my

TheBoyfromtheBand said:

the point is not about Kanye its how people hand out these dumb ass titles like "artist of the decade" or my favorite "best band in the world" to a band like the Fray? Risk is not just about doing something quirky thats something that people fail to realize, sometimes risk is about staying your own course, Qtip is someone that falls into that category, he may be viewed as "safe" but his "safe" is more artistic. This is the argument that people had for years about Prince, that he should bring in the "hot producer" of the day, that to me is not a risk, Prince doing a track with Timbaland or the Neptunes, its different for him, but not even close to being a risk. As i said before in the post about Kanye's album, i dont dislike the album, with the exception of the tracks with LilWayne and the one with Young Jeezy, which to me seem like things that were tacked on in case the bottom falls out, he is light years ahead of the mainstream of his genre, and yet far behind others in his genre.

estelle81 said:

No i agree, passes cant be given to some and not to others, or just no passes at all. The argument can easily be made that Britney is the Queen of Pop, for this decade, just on the merits of her last 5 albums, which have not been "phoned in" like her counterpart pop females. But most artists now are production or works of it, its all a media event now, and music takes a back seat. I heard a great quote from the late Luther Vandross to sum all this nonsense up. "Pioneering in music was done back then and im not seeing any of it being done now".

lastdecember said:

I love me some Luther and miss him soo much. He was 100% right on his observation. Many mainstream artists nowadays have seemed to become lazy to me, but if they are getting paid millions of dollars to put out half assed work with no real feelings behind it than I can't say I really blame them. Who doesn't want to get paid the same amount of money for half the work? I wish I had that luxury at my job; I do two (sometimes three) people's job in a day and only get paid for one, but I love what I do and I love to challenge myself, so it's not all that bad really. It's become very hard for me to be a diehard fan of any artist nowadays, because it's the producers and songwriters who make the majority of their music with the artist doing occasion co-writing or co-production on a track or two.

I've heard many of Beyonce's and Britney's songs being performed by other people, artists and non-artists, and many of them have sang the song just as good or better than these two, so that's why I teeter on the edge of really liking either of them. At various points in the last decade, they both have amazed me; but, for the most part, I've come to see them more as images with great soundtracks than amazing and innovative artists. That's doesn't make them terrible or untalented to me, but definitely not worthy of soo much adoration and praise either. I shouldn't have to watch an artist do an interview and use that as a means of saying whether I like them or not, but sadly, it's hard not to when most of these artist's images and sounds are being constructed for them by other people.

I wouldn't call Kanye the best pop artist of the last 4 years, but he's definitely in my top 10 simply because he tries to think outside of the box and do his own thing. If he didn't open his mouth and bitch soo much, I'd actually consider buying his albums, but since he wants to be a spoiled and arrogant man-child when he attends award shows, I just can't give him my money. He did seem a tiny bit more humble to me on the recent AMAs, but I think that's because of his mother's passing; my sympathies still stay with him because I know that she was the one who really gave him real love and his endless confidence. Sometimes heartbreak and humility come as a package deal.

estelle81 said:

No i agree 100% on all points, and especially the Kanye point, i have no problem with him but then theres the whole talking issue. Now i dont mind ego, many of my fave artists have carried on with egos, i mean people like Prince,Elton,John Mellencamp are known for being "difficult" people, but with Kanye its more of an annoyance, i mean what if someone like Alicia Keys got up there and did what he did at award shows? people would dog her even more than they do now on this forum. Kanye needs to let the craft talk and not his mouth, you can say shit like "we all need to push the envelope" but this whole crap "i deserve this, you dont deserve that" is just bullshit, and he should save that crap for his blogs and forums, because its meaningless. I mean the friggin Beatles won 4 grammys while they were together, and they were the biggest thing on the planet, so Kanye needs to check himself on that stuff, it really has nothing to do with awards though its nice to get one, its meaningless the day after.

As for Britney and Beyonce, i agree on the points. I have many issues with Beyonce but do like her overall, as for Britney she seems to me a bit more interesting, where as Beyonce to me seems more "one note" to me. Im not seeing Beyonce going anywhere really musically, she very much reminds me of Mariah in that respect, she has the looks and the sex appeal but also has talent, but cant seem to break away from the sex appeal and flip the script, which is why i feel both Beyonce and Mariah have yet to do that "IT" project or may never do it. Britney i feel is following more in the madonna trend, because she doesnt have the vocals to seperate her, but she does have some insight to kind of shake shit up to at least make her albums interesting, whether it be bringing back her old producer Max Martin, or using euro producers, there seems to be some thought behind it. Mariah to me, at least on the last 2 albums, seems to just want whos hot at the moment because that will get me played.

VoicesCarry said:

The bar is set so damn low now. People's expectations for what is art and music and television are so low that *any*one can be famous. Terms like "genius" and "icon" are thrown around like they're going out of business, and it's just unbelievable what sells.

Muthafuqas who can't sing, can't dance, and can't act are praised, while people who take their time to learn an original craft toil away in the shadows.

I won't even get on a rant about hip hop; it's all popular music and culture these days. We dumb it down so much that any idiot can break through and be considered a genius.

VH-1 and MTV has made an entire network of dubious "stars". Even people with talent end up being sucked into this morass of mediocrity.

Movies, Music, Television all being sold to an audience that thinks that journalism needs to cover the sex lives of celebrities or that political commentary is what happens on FoxNews and MSNBC.

Pa'l carajo, hermanos.

Alasseon said:

The rest of your post on a thread about Kanye West? I think you just did.

lastdecember said:

I agree with you. An artist has to be in the business for longer than a decade for them to be saying the stuff that Kanye is spewing out of his mouth. There are artists who have been out since the 70s who don't have close to this level of arrogance. Unless an artist can turn water into wine and walk on water, nobody needs to be talking about how they are God's gift to the world.
Even artists who have been out for decades should not over do it with the ego trip. It's tolerable every now and then, but when it's pretty much every time that person talks, it becomes pathetic, stupid, and at times makes that person look like a joke to me. Most awards nowadays are popular votes or based on how many albums are sold, which is just popular votes with monetary figures behind them. Honestly, I only watch awards shows for the performance nowaday. I stopped caring about who won what award a long time ago...actually, it was after Prince won the Best Male Grammy over Usher a few years ago...that moment was classic because everybody was like as a shocked silence filled the room. Even the presenter of the award seemed surprised. .



Beyonce became boring to me after her first album; even bought 'B'Day' and it does nothing for me (love 'Hollywood' though); glad I only paid $5 for it at Wal-Mart. There is something about Britney that is intriguing that has kept her relevant for this long; but I still can't figure out what it is because the Madonna emulating actually turns me off. Copying an artist who is still very much alive is stupid to me and should be looked down on; if people are going to criticize Usher, Justin Timberlake, Chris Brown, etc for copying MJ, than anyone copying Madonna, Janet or any other living female icon should be criticized as well IMO. Whatever it is, Britney is making it work in her favor, so can't hate on her for that.

I love Mariah, but I just can't shake the idea that 'E=MC2' is such a lazy album from her. I loved 'Mimi', but 'E=MC2' seemed to be filled with a lot of tracks that didn't make it onto the final 'Mimi' album list; but that's just my personal opinion. I actually liked the 'Glitter' soundtrack more than 'E=MC2'. For me, if Madonna, Britney, Janet, or whoever else insists on calling themselves singers, than they need to sing; otherwise they need to call themselves performers or entertainers; which is really what all of them are. I love entertainers just as much as I love singers, but I don't put them in the same category because I don't expect the same things from them.

If Britney, Madonna, and Janet were like Dita Von Tesse, than I would think they were great because I love most of the footage I've seen of her shows. Dita is a burlesque performer who used to be married to Marilyn Manson. She's gorgeous and entertaining; but she doesn't sing. Even though she gets undressed, I find it to be very classy and tasteful. Really, the only reason that I refer to Britney, Madonna, and Janet as artists is because they have albums; but even then, I still have a tendency to refer to them as entertainers. I just can't call them singers, because I don't believe that they really rely on their voices to sell their music and that's something that I think a real singer should really be striving to do. If people didn't defend their singing abilities, I wouldn't really be able to say anything negative about any of them.

purplesweat said:

Because they have these things called "opinions", and this is a forum to discuss those opinions, be they pro or con.

Because post after post of "Yeah, Kanye IS a genius and the best pop artist of this decade," would be fucking boring and render the forum completely pointless. This is a place for discussion and debate, not mindless agreement.
[Edited 11/30/08 14:27pm]

myloveis4ever said:

maybe i don't know, but his music sounds like every other hip-hop stuff on the radio. I mean his music still has NOT touched Thriller or Billie Jean.

Im watching his video: heartless and this song is pretty boring to me. I have heard better melodies for rap music than this.

Kanye west music is MAYBE good for this decade but i can't imagine people 10 or 20 years from now becoming fans like that.

I don't get all the hype about HIM and his MUSIC.

His music does NOT transcend the age barrier or time barrier.

oh wait i forgot to add, i have a friend who is a rapper and i have heard better "beats" or "melodies" from my friend than Kanye west.

the first few tracks on this new album are kind of ho-hum, but it really picks up after that. love the rest of it.

I kinda like his last album. At least he's trying something.

VoicesCarry said:

There've been plenty of dis threads for Kanye, or any other artist, yet the "haters" always insist on posting in the pro threads. Go make your own hissy fit thread if you hate someone so much. You're wasting your time here.