Hello all. I'm new here and a big fan of Prince along with many other artists. Anyway I'm not sure if there's already a thread on this man.....if so I apologise.....if not than please check this guy Saul Williams out as he's a real gem in the world of music,literature & film.

Saul Williams has written 4 superb poetry books, has released 3 albums of great music and has starred in numerous films including 98's Sundance Audience Winner "Slam". His first album "Amythest Rock Star" won NY Times album of the year in 2001. His recent album "The Inevitable Rise & Liberation Of Niggy Tardust" was co-produced by Trent Reznor (fear not if you're not a fan of NIN like myself as this is most definately a Saul Williams record).

Saul's music is quite hard to describe. I'd call it an extreme mixture of Hip Hop, Funk, Pop, Punk, Soul, Rock, Breakbeats, Drum'n'Bass, Jazz, Industrial and probably a hell of alot more! I guess that's a good description for the most part.

Check out his myspace below for some snippets of his music (Pedagogue Of Young Gods is a good start) and do read about his history on wikipedia too.

http://www.myspace.com/saulwilliams

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...l_Williams

www.saulwilliams.com

Wow no replies!? Please tell me that someone here on a Prince forum of all things is familiar with Saul Williams!

If not it's time you delved into this gentlemans work as he's probably been the most important artist to come out of the USA in the last 20yrs.

Fiend said:

I dig Tardust.

Fiend said:

There was a post on him a few months back when the record came out. I still think this is the best record I have heard in the last 2 years. I saw him at the 9:30 in DC and he ripped it but I was mad he didn't do The Ritual - which I think that is the best song on the record (along with WTF).

This is definitely good shit.

Tardust album was OK, not as good as Trent's own 'Year Zero' which also came out last year and was my favorite album of 2007 by a mile.

Favorite song on Tardust was Tr(n)igger! Now that was a fucking dope track.

Militant said:

Personally I think Saul's 2nd self-titled is his best so far. As for Year Zero.....I thought that was easily the most banal thing Trent has released yet. For best record of 2007 look no further than Amon Tobin's "Foley Room", Panda Bears's "Person Pitch" and of course MIA's "Kala".

Fiend said:

Anyone that rates MIA has no credibility in my book - and that's coming from someone who knows her personally, knows that she only got a deal because of being best friends with Justine from Elastica, and knows that she has no support outside of people who try to fit in with trends and enjoy quirkiness for the sake of it. Journalists who aren't worth their salt try and claim that she rose up from the British-Asian music scene when in fact, no-one in that scene had ever heard of her before her major label debut dropped.

Not to mention she is a active supporter of Sri Lankan terrorists.

As for Year Zero, it has a depth and complexity to it unmatched by any other NIN record, including the over-rated 'Downward Spiral' and 'Fragile' albums - which I love, but they aren't as great as some would have you believe. 'Pretty Hate Machine' and 'Year Zero' stand far above any other NIN album for cohesiveness and emotion. Trent created an entire world with Year Zero and made every fan a part of it. That's sheer brilliance in my opinion.
[Edited 11/22/08 2:58am]

Militant said:

Well you haven't written a book so I think we're pretty safe on that one.

Militant said:

Wow what a load of garbage? She has a HUGE amount of support due to making superb records and putting on fantastic live shows. And the people who support her are excellent producers, DJ's and people who just plain like good music and are sick to death of pop music being 99% banal mediocre rubbish, NOT quirky trends just for the sake of it as you suggest. Your bizaare personal attack on MIA makes you sound jealous of her deserved success....or MIA stole your man? I don't know... either way it sounded pretty pathetic.

Militant said:

Who cares? Her records are awesome and are much better than anything that "scene" pumped out.

Militant said:

Well one mans "terrorist" is another mans "revolutionary". I suggest you do some research on the Sri Lankan/Tamil conflict before firing out serious accusations such as that. Tamils are not Sri Lankans. By the way, the country (guess who) that has made the term "terrorist" more popular than McDonalds & Nike put together is also the only country in the world condemned by the highest authority in the world (the World Court) for "International Terrorism". This was with regards to the attorocities it carried out against Nicaragua in the 80's. So.....

Militant said:

In your opinion. In my opinion Year Zero was easily the most over-hyped, banal, yawn-fest of an album released in 2007. Thankfully my faith in mankind's music was restored with fantastic releases from Amon Tobin, Akron/Family, Panda Bear, Saul Williams and yes even the terroristic MIA. Your comment above doesn't surprise me though as I've always found NIN to be dull and unoriginal at best, so I suppose due to this NIN record being quite different from it's earlier ones maybe you would find it one of the best. I've listened to all their albums numerous times since 89 and I've always thought they sounded like a fairy pop version of Ministry.....and Ministry were a poor version of Killing Joke and Big Black. I do think Ministry released some awesome stuff Paul Barker era and were one of the deadiest live act around during the late 80's early 90's though.

Regardless of your views (and mine) I believe the world is a better and healthier place music wise when it comes to us all having different tastes. So Militant please don't take it personally when I say I think NIN is dull and unoriginal at best as I'm sure I've probably got a heap of records in my collection you'd think the same of.....one mans treasure is another mans trash and one mans poison is another mans medicine as the say.

Wow.....that was an even more epic militant rant than Militants! Sorry about that folks
[Edited 11/22/08 7:27am]

BlaqueKnight said:

Actually I AM Saul Williams.

Fiend said:

Huge amount of support? no, not on the streets.

Fantastic live shows? Don't make me laugh. Have you seen her live? I have, at Glastonbury a few years ago when I was playing there, headlining a stage with my band.

Let me tell you something - her show was FUCKING TERRIBLE. Nobody there was feeling it. Not one person.

And I was not making a personal attack by any means. I'd love to know how MIA can steal "my man", when I am a straight male.

Fiend said:

Evidently people do care. And I came name a dozen albums better than hers that came from the scene she claims to have come from in the past 3 years alone.

Fiend said:

I know far more about the conflict than you do, I would wager, being of South Asian descent myself. Tamils are not Sri Lankans? There are Tamils who are not Sri Lankan, certainly. And there are also Sri Lankans who are not Tamils. That doesnt discount the fact that a large portion of Tamils are in fact Sri Lankans, and the TERRORIST organization, the Tamil Tigers, that MIA is a brazen supporter of, commit their atrocities IN SRI LANKA.

As for your rant about the US.....OK? I don't see what that has to do with anything.

You really wanna know about MIA? Listen, and WATCH THIS.

http://video.google.com/v...9246618908

But if you want to support a terrorist sympathizer, that's on you.

Fiend said:

Certainly. I'm just glad that not many people (if any) share your view on NIN, since Year Zero is almost universally acknowledged as one of the best things Trent has ever done. And he is almost certainly a better songwriter than Ministry, and to call Ministry a watered-down Big Black is very naive.

Even Steve Albini wouldn't agree with that, and I should know - I've met him several times and had some great discussions with him.

I enjoyed trents involvement in it.. and for the first day this was out i was diggin it..


then i woke up the next day and never played it again.. and i'm still sick of it.


but yeah, it was cool

and in my opinion, This album couldn't hold a candle, not even a spark to Year Zero.

I must admit when I heard Trent was going to be involved I was worried. Trent did a good job with what he did. Year Zero and all of NIN other releases don't come anywhere near Niggy though by a country mile.....and Niggy is the weakest of Saul's albums by a country mile (personally I put that down to Trents paws being on it). Then again Trent isn't exactley a Saul Williams. Trent is a smart man though no doubt. He jumped on the genius of Saul and now he's jumping on the Dubstep genre by having Bug support him. I'm amazed people are actually sticking up for the banality of Year Zero? It just goes to show NIN have some very staunch fans out there who will vouch for even the poorest quality NIN recording. All of the people I know who are NIN fans think Year Zero is an abmonationn for the most part. And to call an instrumental album a concept album is a bit of a joke really isn't it? I mean for all you know Year Zero could be a concept album about the greatness of the sitcom One Tree Hill.

Fiend said:

Noting like good old fashioned self-promotion.

Yeah, I know who you are.
Or should I say something like:
You are the spindle that weaves words in the mind
Twisting and turning verbs and adjectives,
nouns and pronouns
projecting predicates as you expound exclamations that weave conjunctions into knit caps;
Knit caps that cling tightly to the minds that wear them like woven words
that dangle in their heads like participles as you playfully propel prepositions that
thread thoughts into ideas, ideas into expressions and expressions into declarations.
Declarations of love, anger, lust, distain, joy and resentment, passion and pain.
Poetry.
Poet you be.
I know thee.
Nugga

[Edited 11/22/08 10:20am]

Sdldawn said:

Truth.

Militant said:

In your opinion. In mine and many others Year Zero is mediocre electronic music at best and a joke on the fans at worst.

Militant said:

Where do you come up with this crap? Who do you think bought all these MIA records? I'll tell you.....people on the street. I hope this clears things up for you.

Militant said:

It all becomes clear. You're bitter because MIA is making some decent cash and your band isn't. Please do post links for the "kick ass" live reviews your band has recieved recently. Infact please do tell me who your band is so I can steer well clear of your records. Amazing how you've already let your ego run out of control and you haven't even sold any records yet?

Militant said:

Wow you are an angry little man aren't you.

Militant said:

In that case she must've shagged your girlfriends brains out. I can't see why else you hate her so much and sling shit on her?

Militant said:

In that case please enlighten us all with your knowledge of this conflict and it's history.

Militant said:

That was actually an example of people throwing the term "terrorist" around like a hot potatoe nowadays without having a real knowledge of it's definition. Like I said earlier.....one mans terrorist is another mans revolutionary.

Militant said:

Bwahahahahaha! I should have known you were a DeLon follower. His music is even more banal than NIN. His crappy "remix" or "truth mix" as you'd probably call it is about as 100% accurate as the film Zeitgeist. DeLon like yourself is slinging shit about something and someone he has little knowledge of. The main reason DeLon did this rad remix has nothing to do with filling us in on "truth"....it's purpose was to get a little airplay by throwing shit on someone and causing some controversy. He gets NO airplay and sells NO records thankfully. And rightly so because his music is crappy at best. But than again you may think he's awesome like Trent....that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'll stick with MIA anyday thanks.

Militant said:

Yeah....ALL of us think NIN creates the most original and cutting edge music ever. We also think McDonalds is the greatest restaurant known to mankind. Starbucks has the best coffee and we watch MTV to point us in the right direction before going to HMV to buy a truckload of cutting edge music. Actually that's a lie. We don't.

Militant said:

This once again is your opinion....and probably the opinion of the many other MTV watching, coke guzzling, McDonald eating, HMV buying youth out there today.....but in my humble opinion Ministry's "The Land Of Rape & Honey", "The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste", "Psalm 69", "Filth Pig" & "Dark Side Of The Spoon" absolutely brutally RAPE anything NIN has pumped out. I've seen Ministry and NIN live many MANY times over the last 15yrs and Ministry destroys them in the live arena without breaking a sweat too.

Personally I prefer Swans, Melvins, Killing Joke & Justin Broadrick's stuff over Ministry/Lard/Revolting Cocks anyday.....BUT.... the point is Ministry (who sell no records basically unlike NIN) kick NIN ass anyday of the week.....even when they release fairy synth pop like "With Sympathy" or big dumb thrash metal like "Rio Grande Blood" & "The Last Sucker".

Militant said:

Wow you are the little rock star aren't you.....I can only imagine you didn't grovel to him about how Trent is a musical genius as he would've punched you in the face and told you to clean your ears out and go buy some REAL records.

Fiend said:

your right, That is my opinion. and thanks for clarifying it, cause i must not have gotten that through to you the first time.

We all get your point.. but no matter how much you try to sugar coat this turd it still smells like shit.

and Year Zero is better.. (waiting for your head to explode)



[Edited 11/22/08 13:55pm]

Oops.....had to edit my reply as it sounded kind of weird once you edited your post two or three times while I posted it?

Year Zero was just that.....Zero.

Why be with a Zero when you could be with a Hero like Niggy? Niggy would've kicked waaaaay more ass without Trent giving it his emo-hop-core edge to it. Oh well.
[Edited 11/22/08 13:59pm]

Fiend said:

in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion
in your opinion


see? look how old that gets

Sdldawn said:

I know.....it's almost as banal as a Trent Reznor offering and his fans record collections

Fiend said:

agreed!
[Edited 11/22/08 15:40pm]

I don't know what record you guys are listening to. I love NIN and I also loved Year Zero, but Niggy was the better album by far. I listened to it again today and cannot get over how great of a record it is. It's near flawless. i mean cmon with these songs..

Black History Month
Tr(n)igger
Break
Niggy Tardust
DNA
WTF
Skin of a drum
BAnged and Blown through
The Ritual

Yea, this shit is amazing.....trippin

I liked the album well enough with just the original release, but then additional songs (outtakes) were made available on iTunes, including List Of Demands. When you play those songs ahead of the first track, then it brings a whole new flavor to the album. Then I get to add the History class I've been studying in there (at Berkeley, no doubt), and it has become one of my favorite albums this decade.

larksanders said:

funny thing about Saul, for me that is, is that I don't like listening to him just read his poetry - when he's got the music backing him (which no doubt is as much a part of him as the the lyrics), it's somethin' special...

larksanders said:

True be to that.....Niggy by a country mile.
It just goes to show how committed Militant & sdldawn are. They're totally in love with Trent....they should get a hotel room together.

eaglebear4839 said:

Have you seen the film "Slam" or read his books? They're superb stuff....especially his first book "Seventh Octave". Saul was great in the film "K-Pax" too as looney toon Ernie.

Basically Saul kicks mo ass than a donkey.

Sdldawn said:

Make up your mind Sdldawn. Your either down with it or your not?

yes, I have. he does like many poets do, and reads his work well, but I feel what he's conveying in his work more when there's music behind it. If not for that, it would be like when I saw him on Def Poetry Jam (just another slam poet).

Fiend said: