[i]

As if the case couldn't get any more weirder, I'm finding out among other things that the sheik apparently wants Michael to pay him back some money for some...fucking ice cream!

Is the Shiekh serious? Does this billionaire prince really wanna be reimbursed for a tub of Haagen Daaz? @ this whole mess of a case.

Okay, so the way I'm seeing this whole thing now is, I think the Sheikh feels betrayed by Michael because he gave all those gifts to him as well as Jermaine, but unlike Jermaine, he had high hopes set on working with Michael and was expecting this great business partnership from him in return. I really dont think its just about the money he spent on Michael. Thing is, if Michael had recorded his songs and did the biography and whatever else the Prince expected him to do, Michael probably wouldnt be being hauled off to court by this guy right now.

The Sheikh expected to do all these business ventures with Michael, and so he didnt mind spending his money on him and at the time, all that money he gave to Mike and the expenses he paid for may very well have been gifts. But he expected Mike to record his songs and do that other stuff with him--and Mike walked, jetted over to Ireland and then to Vegas and the Shiekh hasnt heard back from him since.

Now whether or not there was an actual written contract between them, I;m not so sure. Some reports claim there was, others are somewhat vague on the issue, and its been day 4 of this trial but no actual document has been submitted to the court and shown as concrete evidence yet, but I remember reading some article that said that Mike had signed a document but he hadnt really read it so...???

But Mike had to have agreed to something or else he wouldnt be in this mess he is now. Whether he signed a piece of paper or he told the Prince to his face--obviously the Prince thought that he and Michael were going to go into business together. If Mike promised this guy anything, either orally or on paper, he should keep his word.

However, the fact that the Prince was trying to arrange something with Michael during his trial is also strange, and why Michael would even be talking business with anyone espec. when he's goin thru the trial of his life. He could've told the Prince, thanks, but not at this time, and ended their conversations---and then theres the Jermaine angle... But yet the Sheikh doesnt want what he gave to Jermaine paid back. It seems like the Prince was overly zealous and overly excited about the possibility of working wtih Michael. So possibly, in order to woo Michael he offers him a place to stay, spends lavishly on him, presents him with business ventures and expects Michael to follow thru on it.

Michael, gladly accepts the Sheikh's kindne$$ that he's freely giving to Michael (at the time) and must have agreed to do something with the Sheikh...but then changes his mind and leaves for Vegas and cuts off all contact and communication with him. Did the Shiekh try to, in a sense "buy" Michael? Buy his friendship and him as a business partner? Certainly looks that way...but did Michael take advantage of the Shiekh's over-zealous genoro$ity and perhaps lead him on to believe that he would participate in and produce those songs and autobiography and stage shows for him--even tho he really didnt want to do it, but let the Shiekh think otherwise in order for him to keep up his shopping spree? Yeah I think so.

So, IMO, they are both guilty of using bad judgement, using bad business practices and using each other.

Excellent analysis, without any of the drama. Well-done!

There's more to this story for sure. Hopefully more will come out on Monday. As for the comeback album. Laughable since every album he releases is called a comeback album.

NaughtyKitty said:

Grace looks odd. She a white woman with a black womans head? that thing round her neck hiding the join?

Alasseon said:

Thank you. And I agree with what you're saying too Timmy. Nothing is totally clear yet on either side--stuff is starting to become a bit clearer each day as more details are released, but the whole matter is still pretty murky. Thing is, with Michael, almost all of his relationships end up ending badly. He either befriends (or marries) somebody, then cuts them out of his life completely, and they end up feeling used and betrayed by him. There's a definite pattern there.

Marrk said:

Here's another pic of her


[Edited 11/21/08 9:15am]

NaughtyKitty said:

Yeah it is DEFINITELY a pattern. Michael doesn't seem to have success in relationships.

NaughtyKitty said:

Yeah it is DEFINITELY a pattern. Michael doesn't seem to have success in relationships.

Timmy84 said:

And most children learn about relationship behavior by watching their parent(s). Good luck to Junior, Comforter and the little girl.

Timmy84 said:

Yeah and you have to wonder why that is. The thing that I'm getting the most from this case so far, is that the Prince feels like he was betrayed by Michael. And whether or not there was an actual written document that Mike actually signed agreeing to do these things--remains to be seen, but I'm starting to wonder about what Michael SAID to the Prince. Maybe there was no written contract but if Michael told the Prince to his face that he would work on these projects, then the Prince probably took Michael's word as golden. If Mike was like, Yeah I'll record these songs...I'm really excited about this new venture...I'm ready to get back out there...you really have great talent as a songwriter--you're a visionary like me...etc...if he was basically buttering up the Prince and acting like he was gonna make good on his word and deliver--then I totally understand why the Prince feels betrayed. Even if there wasnt a written contract, if Mike SAID he would do it and was leading the Prince on making him think he would...and then leaves and sends him a letter saying he doenst wanna do it anymore...

I dont think the Prince necessarily wants the money back, he certainly doesnt need it. I think what he really wants is to meet face to face with Michael again and confront him over this whole ordeal. He wants Michael to be able to look him in the eye and either confirm or deny what went down between them. And I would bet that the Prince had tried to contact Michael before on this matter after he left Bahrain, but Mike probably played his infamous change-my-number-so-you-cant-call-me-no-more game and ignored him completely. I would think that going to court over this was the last thing the shiek wanted to do, but unfortunately Michael left him no choice--he wasnt about to just let this thing go without getting any straight answers from him.

Grace is black.

I just found out the ice cream story came from the Mirror!

JackieBlue said:

Timmy84 said:

It's the lighting in the picture


or she forgot to put on some lotion that morning

but we finally get to see her face instead of her back to the camera walking around with her boyfriend....I mean, Michael

He owes everyone money at this point. He owes me at least $10...I bought "Invincible".

NaughtyKitty said:

Yeah I'm starting to think that too. I mean, both sides would then settle once MJ finally sees him again. If that happens, then we could put this shit in the past. I just don't want Michael to go "I don't know" or "I don't recall" because if he does...

Timmy84 said:

I'm really hopin he doesnt pull that "I dont recall" bull either, but I have a bad feeling he might And if he does that--that could make this case stretch out even longer--which I hope DOES NOT happen cuz I would hate for this thing to be goin on for months. I hope they can reach a settlement that they'll both be happy with quickly so Mike can get back home and continue his tour of bookstores and KFC restaurants

MY DAY AT COURT

Just back from The Royal Courts of Justice and trying to make sense of my notes. I apologise in advance if some things dont make sense, as I was trying to follow what was being said and write at the same time.

Anything in BOLD are direct quotes from either the lawers, judge or witness's. Every thing else is sumerised from my notes

I had planned to go to the entire day but could only go to the afternoon session.

When I entered the court just before 2 pm, Guy Holmes was sitting in the witness box, and when the court resumed they continued with his testomy from the morning.

During the morning session Guy Holmes diary was being used as evidence and Michael's lawyer Robert Englehart continued questioning Guy about this.

Then the questioning turned to THE COMBINED RIGHTS AGREEMENT.

GUY HOLMES Once I joined 2 SEA'S Im learned about a written agreement called The Combined Rights Agreement" He is certain he say this agreement, which had Michael's signature on it, but not the Sheiks. He said he believed it was a finished document. When asked by by Englehart, does Michael have a copy, do you have a copy, does the Sheik have a copy, he answered no to all.

After further questioning it comes to light that the document Guy Holmes saw was a draft. He apparently sent this draft to Michael's residence in Bahrain by courier but there is no record of this as he dosnt have a receipt.

By this stage Guy Holmes was getting a bit rattled and flustered by the questioning. Englehart then started breaking down what Michael was expected to do under the terms of the agreement. This included him being tied to 2 SEAS for 6 years during which time he would record an album, write an autobiography and produce a stage play.

Further questioning about the "draft" that was supposedly sent to Michael for him to sign. It was sent to him with no cover letter and even though it was a draft of a contract written up under English Law, no one familar with English Law actully went though it with him.

Guy Holmes also helped organise the phographer who took the photo of Michael signing the contact with the Sheik. Under questioning it come out that Michael thought this photo was just for show as he hadnt actully signed a proper contract but the Sheik wanted the world to think Michael had actully signed to 2 SEAS.

Then the questioning turned to how the figure of 7 million was calculated. It was a guestimate of apporox how much had been spend at that stage during one of their meetings. Guy Holmes first suggested 5 million but between Michael , the Sheik and Guy, they all agreed on 7 million.

GUY HOLMES "I learned some days after the Agreement was signed that it was not an incorperated company"

GUY HOLMES "Michael had no interest in the coperate structure of the company and only talked about his music and vision, he trusted the Sheik and Guy to look after things and make sure everything was ok"

After Michael signed this agreement there was still work to do with this company, settling the structure. Guy Holmes was under the impression that the company was formed, was told by the Sheik it was but in actul fact the comapany didnt exsist and never has.

JUDGE SWEENEY " Did you tell Michael Jackson he had signed a contract with a company that didnt exsist"

GUY HOLMES " No"

Then the questioning turned to the fact the for a time Guy Holmes was Michael's manager and what other things he took care of.

Guy Holmes explained that when he took over as Michael's manager, his buisness affairs where in chaos.
There were 27 major litagation case's, about 20 million in unsecured debt, deposions that Michael had to give, Judges passing oders that Michael need to be present at, possible bankrupcy, too many things to remember off hand. He said as soon as word got out that he was Michael's manager, that his phone never stopped with people trying to contact Michael.

During his time as Michael's manager he went to Vegas and met with the Circ du Soli people with a view of Michael working with them to put on a show somewhere. He also met up with J. K Rowlings agent and heads of record companies.

After a few more questions he finished his testomony. Before he left the witness stand, Judge Sweeny asked his for a copy of his passport to verify his dates of travel to Bahrain and Vegas. Guy Holmes said that that was not possible as he had a new passport and didnt keep the old one.

Ok thats the end of the first part, next up is Mark Stewart.

STOP THE PRESS! I done heard it all now. Apparently the prince's company...doesn't exist! Michael signed a contract with a non-existing label!

moonstreet said:

God... the prince was on CRACK!

Timmy84 said:

WHAT THE HELL?!

Is the Shiekh serious? Does this billionaire prince really wanna be reimbursed for a tub of Haagen Daaz? @ this whole mess of a case.

Okay, so the way I'm seeing this whole thing now is, I think the Sheikh feels betrayed by Michael because he gave all those gifts to him as well as Jermaine, but unlike Jermaine, he had high hopes set on working with Michael and was expecting this great business partnership from him in return. I really dont think its just about the money he spent on Michael. Thing is, if Michael had recorded his songs and did the biography and whatever else the Prince expected him to do, Michael probably wouldnt be being hauled off to court by this guy right now.

The Sheikh expected to do all these business ventures with Michael, and so he didnt mind spending his money on him and at the time, all that money he gave to Mike and the expenses he paid for may very well have been gifts. But he expected Mike to record his songs and do that other stuff with him--and Mike walked, jetted over to Ireland and then to Vegas and the Shiekh hasnt heard back from him since.

Now whether or not there was an actual written contract between them, I;m not so sure. Some reports claim there was, others are somewhat vague on the issue, and its been day 4 of this trial but no actual document has been submitted to the court and shown as concrete evidence yet, but I remember reading some article that said that Mike had signed a document but he hadnt really read it so...???

But Mike had to have agreed to something or else he wouldnt be in this mess he is now. Whether he signed a piece of paper or he told the Prince to his face--obviously the Prince thought that he and Michael were going to go into business together. If Mike promised this guy anything, either orally or on paper, he should keep his word.

However, the fact that the Prince was trying to arrange something with Michael during his trial is also strange, and why Michael would even be talking business with anyone espec. when he's goin thru the trial of his life. He could've told the Prince, thanks, but not at this time, and ended their conversations---and then theres the Jermaine angle... But yet the Sheikh doesnt want what he gave to Jermaine paid back. It seems like the Prince was overly zealous and overly excited about the possibility of working wtih Michael. So possibly, in order to woo Michael he offers him a place to stay, spends lavishly on him, presents him with business ventures and expects Michael to follow thru on it.

Michael, gladly accepts the Sheikh's kindne$$ that he's freely giving to Michael (at the time) and must have agreed to do something with the Sheikh...but then changes his mind and leaves for Vegas and cuts off all contact and communication with him. Did the Shiekh try to, in a sense "buy" Michael? Buy his friendship and him as a business partner? Certainly looks that way...but did Michael take advantage of the Shiekh's over-zealous genoro$ity and perhaps lead him on to believe that he would participate in and produce those songs and autobiography and stage shows for him--even tho he really didnt want to do it, but let the Shiekh think otherwise in order for him to keep up his shopping spree? Yeah I think so.

So, IMO, they are both guilty of using bad judgement, using bad business practices and using each other.

NaughtyKitty said:

Yeah.... this kinda is like going to an advertisement dinner (you know the deal where you go to a restaurant and get a free meal, but have to sit through someone introducing a product to you, which you're not obliged to buy), without any intention of ever buying that product! You don't care about the product, you're just there for the free meal!

But still... somewhere along the way MJ must have said yes or given the prince the feeling that he would follow through.... considering he stayed there for almost a year, basically sheltered of any intruding press, I think it's very shady of MJ to behave like this now! But then again, the prince also is a bit shady, doing all those things with the sole intention of making money with MJ!

By this stage Guy Holmes was getting a bit rattled and flustered by the questioning. Englehart then started breaking down what Michael was expected to do under the terms of the agreement. This included him being tied to 2 SEAS for 6 years during which time he would record an album, write an autobiography and produce a stage play.

Further questioning about the "draft" that was supposedly sent to Michael for him to sign. It was sent to him with no cover letter and even though it was a draft of a contract written up under English Law, no one familar with English Law actully went though it with him.

Guy Holmes also helped organise the phographer who took the photo of Michael signing the contact with the Sheik. Under questioning it come out that Michael thought this photo was just for show as he hadnt actully signed a proper contract but the Sheik wanted the world to think Michael had actully signed to 2 SEAS.

GUY HOLMES "I learned some days after the Agreement was signed that it was not an incorperated company"

GUY HOLMES "Michael had no interest in the coperate structure of the company and only talked about his music and vision, he trusted the Sheik and Guy to look after things and make sure everything was ok"

Maybe that is the answer to why he would sue with no contract, and knowing there was no company...

Perhaps he simply reacted emotionally...

A'ight, my mind's made up: THE PRINCE SHEIK IS A DUMB MOTHAFUCKIN' ASS! Jermaine too!