dag said:

Sade uplifts you, Janet and Madonna wanna take you down.

Cinnie said:

To suggest that gaining weight between every project is some sort of stunt is ridiculous.thing I've heard yet. Janet, by nature, has the fat girl gene. She, like me, loves to eat. It takes her alot of work to get her body in shape (save the lipo accusations-she was too fat for that to work). I have always said, Janet, Britney, Beyonce, JLO were all one popeyes chicken wing or pregnancy away from a total explosion. So they work out to stay fit. I doubt if Janet wants to be crucified in the same way many of you all did to Britney.
[Edited 10/31/08 13:37pm]

TotalAlisa said:

Janet has yet to tone down anything.
I guess you never listened to the song "Discipline".
The album cover/title/concept was anything but squeaky clean.




In fact, this photo shoot is positively lurid. What were you saying?

totaldiva said:

Seems like for the last 2 or 3 projects, one of the only things the media discussed with Janet was her weight loss. Even after she gained it back and "came back" once again. My point is that does not help her image.

Cinnie said:

[verse1]
i misbehaved, done some things i know i shouldnt do
i touched myself even though you told me not to
you commanded me to wait for you(i tried)
but i can smell you on my sheets
taste you on my skin so vividly
daddy i disobeyed you
now i want you to come punish me

[chorus]
babe, i need some discipline tonight(dont hold back)
ive been very bad(make me cry)
got to make me cry (ooo)
babe
(repeat 2xs)

[verse2]
i misbehaved, and my punishment should fit my crime
tie me to something take off all my clothes
daddy i want you to take your time(im scared)
my heart is(beating fast)
shiver as(you grab)
my neck baby, blindfold me daddy
is better when i dont know what to expect
[ http://www.elyricsworld.com ]


[chorus]
babe, i need some discipline tonight(dont hold back)
ive been very bad(make me cry)
got to make me cry (ooo)
babe
(repeat 2xs)


[bridge]
did i upset you daddy(take out your frustrations on me)
did i make you mad(take out your frustrations on me)
you be the teacher ill be the student
tell me to do it and i will do it
im under your command
you be the teacher ill be the student
tell me to do it and i will do it


[chorus]
babe, i need some discipline tonight(dont hold back)
ive been very bad(make me cry)
got to make me cry (ooo)
babe
(repeat 2xs)

badujunkie said:

With Bedtime Stories & Hard Candy as the only 2 exceptions (not counting soundtracks OR greatest hits collections), All of Madonna's career albums fitted in the mold that she was meant to be musically: Dance-pop. Although the genre is too difficult to sell in 21st century USA, dance-pop still sells in Europe & Asia very well. Therefore, Madonna will always have a career outside of the USA.

Janet's first 5 career albums were dance-pop. But by the 6th album (The Velvet Rope), Janet was moving more and more away from dance-pop & ending up trying to fit in the mold of hip-hop/r&b (TRANSLATION: shit-hop & rhythmless bullshit) at the expense of some of her long-time dance-pop fans getting turn off from her bad music business decisions.
[Edited 10/31/08 13:47pm]

Let me just say this. In a perfect world, Janet would have learned her mistakes from Damita Jo and 20 Y.O. and this year we would have seen a positively fun fluffy project with no sex in it at all, and a much softer image, but not necessarily softer music. "Call On Me" was softer but you don't have to release ballads to serve the public fluff (see the successful fluff uptempo dance single "Hung Up").

Janet is younger than Madonna and still has time to achieve this, but I think Discipline was another fail.

There goes Cinnie making a bunch of sense again!

on all accounts. carry on carry on.

SoulAlive said:

Beside David Bowie himself, Madonna is also the master of The David Bowie Rule: Reinvent your music & image with every new album.

badujunkie said:

OFF-TOPIC: Tina (Private Dancer-era) & Tina (Ike & Tina -era) are two different images, sounds, & concepts. Hell yeah, Tina reinvent herself a few times.

TonyVanDam said:

Exactly.

JackieBlue said:

THAT is exactly what she should do! That's just too perfect!

alphastreet said:

not to overgeneralize. lol.

ALL black artists on the charts act 'gangster' and rap about 'bling.' that sounds like something my grandpa would say if he were still alive.

Cinnie said:

I have to agree. I love Janet, I liked a few tracks from Discipline but that was all. The album was a let down imo (sorry).

SoulAlive said:

You're in complete denial if you think race wasn't even a factor in the SuperBowl backlash. Just because some black artists are successful these days - SO WHAT? Was racism not prevalent in society when the Supremes were huge? By your logic, it's silly to pretend poor 'ol black artists in the 60's were somehow being discriminated against because of their skin color when so many black artists were doing so well in the 60's. Puh-leeze.
[Edited 10/31/08 17:25pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Really? How? Besides taking on more rock / pop / adult contemporary of a sound?

i am fans of both. i saw them both live in the past month. personally, janet just doesnt seem to have that passion anymore. she seems tired, frustrated at her career and doesnt really have a creative direction. I dont think she plays things very smart either. when madonna had a complete nosedive during the Erotica era she only did THREE dates in the US when she toured. She got it. Janet doesnt seem to realize people arent interested. This tour was set to bomb, executed poorly, and she did too many dates.


I dont think it's a race thing. If that is case Paula Abdul and Cyndi Lauper wouldve had longer careers as being massive pop stars. People say the beat janet up for the superbowl because she was black. but people forget how hard madonna got it in the early 90s. they said she had AIDS. called her a has been. there was a I Hate Madonna handbook. anyone who knows madonna's career knows until Ray of Light she was very much hated and critics hated her the most. janet was the media darling for many years.
[Edited 10/31/08 17:37pm]

Cinnie said:

Forest for the trees.

The photoshoots OTHER than this one for the Discipline era were all very chaste. She was completely covered in the videos. She is completely covered on tour.

OVERALL, yes, there has been a shift in image.

Its amazing how everyone is skipping the big factors and one is the biggest factor, and that is SHE IS OLD NOW. What 42 year old female is selling millions and topping charts and got the mainstrream by the throat? That would be NO FEMALE, this isnt the 80's when Tina Turner was doing that with ease, this is the AGE-NERATION, different ball game now. People are making it seem like Madonna is selling zillions of records and is everywhere? First of all she isnt, second of all there isnt even a music outlet in the USA so where is this BIG PLAY that im hearing everyone talking about. Neither of them is getting any time from anything in the us, its that simple, they are selling to their bases and thats it, NO ONE IS JUST GETTING INTO MADONNA OR JANET, if people say they are they are so full of shit. Its like Prince said when he was on the "Purple Rain" tour back in 1985, he said that he looked into the crowd and he knew that he was never going to see these people again, and thats what every ICON needs to accept, you all have your "Honeymoon" period and then you have your loyals, deal with it and move on with your life. All i want is good fucking music from them thats all i ask, i mean their sales are meaningless, because i aint getting a cut.

lastdecember said:

Damn, dude.

Well this conversation is over. I bet you're gonna get the "but Janet this and Madonna that..."

Both of them are old, though...

Timmy84 said:

And Madonna is selling to her base, thats it, she just has a bigger worldwide base than Janet does, its that simple, nothing more or less. Neither one of these ladies are getting played here, turn on BET or VH1 and i see neither of these artists, their first singles got play and that was it, done deal.

lastdecember said:

Which goes back to my point about how after the first single, you don't hear much else from them. Like I said about Madonna, same goes for Janet. I wonder a decade from now, will some of us still be arguing about who got it better?

Internet fighting is stupid. Even if you win, you're still a loser.

Timmy84 said:

This is why the internet is not such a great thing. I mean if this was back in the day, im sure we'd be debating the likes of Aretha and james

lastdecember said:

True.

I enjoyed Madonna's show a few weeks back, and I am sure I will enjoy Janet's tomorrow. The fact is these two artist are the last of the real MTV pop diva's. Both are aging, yet look great. Both are great performers. The chicks in the game today have much to aspire to.

totaldiva said:

I doubt that'll happen.

Overall she has better songs, she's white and has a more interesting public image.
She also doesn't have the disadvantage of having a hugely successful musical family particularly a brother whose more talented and far more successful in the same genre of music.
For Janet to be more successful or more critically acclaimed worldwide in the pop genre she would need an exceptional attribute.
MJ has the voice, dancing, videos and songs. Prince has the remarkable musicianship. Whitney has the voice and songs. Janet has?

As to why she's more successful in recent years, she has catchier songs, good videos and works with popular producers.
[Edited 10/31/08 21:30pm]

Personally, I think it boils down to two major things:

1) Need for attention
2) Burnout

1) I've always believed that Madonna has thrived off of the constant attention, more than Janet. Madonna has always loved attention and re-inventing yourself is going to get people's attention. I was a huge Madonna fan, but grew bored with her after "Bedtime Stories". I still like the occasional Madonna track: "Get Together" from 'Confessions' and "Miles Away" from 'Hard Candy' are superb. , but she just doesn't grab me like she used to.
Janet has always been the more quiet one out of the two to me...hell, people didn't find out she was married for 11 years until she got divorced, so that's pretty private. As much as I love Janet, her last few albums have been very disappointing and I think it's because she's listening to too many people who think that her name is soo great that it can carry mediocre music...yeah, not so much unfortunately.

2) Both of them have been out since the 80s, but Janet has been in the biz since she was like 8, so I think she's getting burnt out on the whole experience. Even child stars want to be normal at some point in their lives and some of them dropout of the spotlight to go to college or take a break and be 'invisible' for a while. Janet has been working on TV shows and albums for the bulk of her life, whereas Madonna didn't get big until her early 20s. Honestly, I would rather Janet just concentrate more on acting if she's going to continue to put out mediocre music that sounds strained at points IMO. I liked her last few albums, but if I was told that I could only keep 4 albums out of her whole catalog and had to burn the rest, than these last few would unfortunately be sacrificed to the flames. It's that troll-looking asswad that's helping fuck up her music...can't stand that gap-toothed bastard . Madonna was lucky, the only thing Guy ever did that was a stumbling block for her career was agree to direct that monstrousity of a film, "Swept Away".

Sadly though, neither of these two ladies is outselling any of the younger, carbon copy female artists that are out now. I heard on some show that if Miley Cyrus continues with the amount of popularity she is getting, she may be a billionaire before she turns 30...neither Madonna or Janet are close to that number and both of them are way over 30. I'm not comparing these newbies to either Janet or Madonna, but they both seem to want to cater to a younger market, image- and sound-wise (so does Mariah...she's not exempt in any way).

Unfortunately, kids are the ones who are buying most of the music nowadays because they don't have to use their own money to buy the music they like (they use their parents) and most parents aren't going to buy their 8 year old a Madonna or Janet album because of some of the things they have done in the past. Chart sales don't matter to me, but I'm not the one whose getting paid...if I was, and I still said that Chart sales didn't matter, well, than I'd be a liar. Chart sales will always matter because if an artist isn't selling, than a label isn't going to keep them on the roster...doesn't matter how big their name is at the end, all that matters to record labels is, "Can we still make money off of this person?" 'Cash rules everything around me.' Just my

estelle81 said:

This is saddening. I cant even name a Miley song...

Are you sure Madonna aint worth a billion by now? Surely all these years and tours...?

LiquidGold said:

So why has Michael Jackson been more succesful in his career than Madonna? It has nothing to do with race in this circumstance. There are times in music when racism comes into play, but this time isn't one of them.