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Printable"Hung Up" and "4 Minutes"
Everything about the execution of these songs, as singles, leading up to the album, the videos, the radio play, the image/content.... Basically sums up this post. | |
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Cinnie said: Timmy84 said: You know the strangest thing is after the first singles come out, Madonna's second and third singles always flop in America: American Life: "Die Another Day" was #8 "American Life" only hit #37 and people were turned off by that...RAP 
"Hollywood" barely hit the chart if at all "Nothing Fails"... 
Confessions on a Dance Floor: "Hung Up" hits #7 "Sorry" bombs "Jump Up"? Neh (but both hit #1 on the dance chart) Hard Candy: "4 Minutes" with Justin hits #3 "Give It 2 Me" without no guest hits #57 then drops ...she's still successful but she'll never get back the consecutive streak she had between 1983 and 1991. But somehow she's always found a way to stick it out. Janet has done the same thing albeit in less successful terms since 2004 but hey she's still sticking it out. Maybe it's safe to say both artists can still have a hit single or a hit album but people think they're both over in the states as a sense. Madonna at least has a crutch to fall back on, unfortunately for Janet, she was always more successful in America than outside of it. People say videos don't matter as much, but for the first single back they really do, and Madonna hasn't had a cheap looking first video. What has Janet had? "Just A Little While" - Damita Jo "Feedback" - Discipline "So Excited" didn't look so bad but it was an "All Nite" knockoff where Janet's clothes get CGI'd away! Ridiculous! I think you meant Call On Me, as that was the first single off 20 YO. Though I like it now, I was not nuts about it when it came out and could see why people were feeling Nelly, Justin, Christina, Beyonce and Mary J. Blige more, cause I was feeling their first singles much more than Janet's and this is coming from a huge fan. | |
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alphastreet said: Cinnie said: Remember when no one disagreed with this photo of Janet?
The public wants some non-sexual fluff. "Feedback" was close, but the album cover for Discipline was a big fail, and the big video looked cheap. I remember loving that picture and thought she was going to be much classier, then she did all those unattractive photoshoots for VIBE, lying around in bikinis, and having shots with her top off and finding creative ways to cover her breasts like with suspensers, hugging herself, body tape, hugging herself naked while wearing a ridiculous headdress... I almost cried during the "20 Y.O." period when she did that because Janet is a legend, she doesn't have to do that. 
Then again, she wanted the attention focused on her losing weight so I guess that was good but really, I think the label was still convinced they wanted that side of Janet. What I wish for both Madonna and Janet is to retain sexuality in a refined way rather than be frank about it. I could only hope Mariah refines it too when she gets to their age too and she's not that far away though I don't think when they said her dress attire "reached all-time low" that it was right at all since it was Halloween. | |
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Timmy84 said: alphastreet said: I remember loving that picture and thought she was going to be much classier, then she did all those unattractive photoshoots for VIBE, lying around in bikinis, and having shots with her top off and finding creative ways to cover her breasts like with suspensers, hugging herself, body tape, hugging herself naked while wearing a ridiculous headdress... I almost cried during the "20 Y.O." period when she did that because Janet is a legend, she doesn't have to do that.
Then again, she wanted the attention focused on her losing weight so I guess that was good but really, I think the label was still convinced they wanted that side of Janet. What I wish for both Madonna and Janet is to retain sexuality in a refined way rather than be frank about it. I could only hope Mariah refines it too when she gets to their age too and she's not that far away though I don't think when they said her dress attire "reached all-time low" that it was right at all since it was Halloween. the weight thing was dumb, and she looked nice when she had her clothes on, I don't know how she or her company thought that would sell, cause it hurt her more. Didn't that US magazine get more successful than the album? | |
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alphastreet said: Cinnie said: "So Excited" didn't look so bad but it was an "All Nite" knockoff where Janet's clothes get CGI'd away! Ridiculous!
I think you meant Call On Me, as that was the first single off 20 YO. Though I like it now, I was not nuts about it when it came out and could see why people were feeling Nelly, Justin, Christina, Beyonce and Mary J. Blige more, cause I was feeling their first singles much more than Janet's and this is coming from a huge fan. "Call On Me" didn't look cheap but it wasn't very memorable (seeing as I just forgot about it )
"Call On Me" was actually the most I heard a Janet song on the radio in the past 5 years. It was fluff. That's what the public/RADIO demands. [Edited 10/31/08 12:49pm] | |
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Cinnie said: alphastreet said: "So Excited" didn't look so bad but it was an "All Nite" knockoff where Janet's clothes get CGI'd away! Ridiculous!
I think you meant Call On Me, as that was the first single off 20 YO. Though I like it now, I was not nuts about it when it came out and could see why people were feeling Nelly, Justin, Christina, Beyonce and Mary J. Blige more, cause I was feeling their first singles much more than Janet's and this is coming from a huge fan. "Call On Me" didn't look cheap but it wasn't very memorable (seeing as I just forgot about it )
"Call On Me" was actually the most I heard a Janet song on the radio in the past 5 years. It was fluff. That's what the public/RADIO demands.[/quote] it was fluff but it was so boring. It sounded like songs mary j blige, mariah and other artists already did when experimenting with pianos and claps, but very boring in comparison. The hook didn't stick with me right away. | |
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alphastreet said: Timmy84 said: I almost cried during the "20 Y.O." period when she did that because Janet is a legend, she doesn't have to do that.
Then again, she wanted the attention focused on her losing weight so I guess that was good but really, I think the label was still convinced they wanted that side of Janet. What I wish for both Madonna and Janet is to retain sexuality in a refined way rather than be frank about it. I could only hope Mariah refines it too when she gets to their age too and she's not that far away though I don't think when they said her dress attire "reached all-time low" that it was right at all since it was Halloween. the weight thing was dumb, and she looked nice when she had her clothes on, I don't know how she or her company thought that would sell, cause it hurt her more. Didn't that US magazine get more successful than the album? The US magazine cover sold a million, "20 Y.O." - around 740K. | |
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I don´t think that sex thing applies only to Janet or Madonna. It´s what all the females do. None of them is classy nowadays - NONE! Look at latest Mariah´s video, Britney´s etc. You won´t find a video where that woman would not try to sell out her body somehow. I think the public is (or at least I am) sick of it. Too much. ALl you see wherever you look are ladies flashing boobs showing off their asses. It´s boring, but nobody got it yet, or they just probably don´t know any other way to be interesting. Everybody´s uninspired, doing the same thing. The whole show-business is just  And of course we´re gonna be tired of looking at bodies (especially aging bodies) we´ve seen million of times before."When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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I really think since such a large part of Janet’s weight has been public, capitalizing on that may have helped take some focus off of the sex stuff and onto fitness and healthy living. We rarely see her demonstrating work outs, cooking with her personal chef, or even a fitness line.
LL’s workout book was very successful and I think something like that could help people relate to her more and show a different side. Her doing a lingerie line sorta keeps in line with the whole sex image. But Janet's personality is so reserved she may not be the best pick. Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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dag said: I don´t think that sex thing applies only to Janet or Madonna. It´s what all the females do. None of them is classy nowadays - NONE! Look at latest Mariah´s video, Britney´s etc. You won´t find a video where that woman would not try to sell out her body somehow. I think the public is (or at least I am) sick of it. Too much. ALl you see wherever you look are ladies flashing boobs showing off their asses. It´s boring, but nobody got it yet, or they just probably don´t know any other way to be interesting. Everybody´s uninspired, doing the same thing. The whole show-business is just
And of course we´re gonna be tired of looking at bodies (especially aging bodies) we´ve seen million of times before.That's true. I wonder when all of them will get the picture though.  | |
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alphastreet said: Cinnie said: "Call On Me" didn't look cheap but it wasn't very memorable (seeing as I just forgot about it )
"Call On Me" was actually the most I heard a Janet song on the radio in the past 5 years. It was fluff. That's what the public/RADIO demands. it was fluff but it was so boring. It sounded like songs mary j blige, mariah and other artists already did when experimenting with pianos and claps, but very boring in comparison. The hook didn't stick with me right away. And I believe that's how "Feedback" was an improvement, but the look of it was just wrong. That video wasn't good, man. Try going out to promote something with those poorly lit videos. Anyway I guess the difference is "Call On Me" and "Feedback" vs. "Hung Up" and "4 Minutes featuring Justin Timberlake" | |
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the weight thing did work, but posing in a classless manner for some of those ridiculous photoshoots harmed her more than help her.
What if Get It Out Me or Enjoy were released instead of the songs that were? I can see those grabbing people right away instead of the ones that were released. I think with Discipline, the right singles were released, but 2nite should have been capitalized on more after Sex In the City, and songs like Can't Be Good, Never Letchu Go and So Much Betta would have been great. | |
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JackieBlue said: I really think since such a large part of Janet’s weight has been public, capitalizing on that may have helped take some focus off of the sex stuff and onto fitness and healthy living. We rarely see her demonstrating work outs, cooking with her personal chef, or even a fitness line.
Seems like Janet wants to sell some lube, whips, or dildos. Time for an image overhaul. | |
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Cinnie said: alphastreet said: it was fluff but it was so boring. It sounded like songs mary j blige, mariah and other artists already did when experimenting with pianos and claps, but very boring in comparison. The hook didn't stick with me right away. And I believe that's how "Feedback" was an improvement, but the look of it was just wrong. That video wasn't good, man. Try going out to promote something with those poorly lit videos. Anyway I guess the difference is "Call On Me" and "Feedback" vs. "Hung Up" and "4 Minutes featuring Justin Timberlake" I thought the video was good but the editing could have been better, and there could have been more mobility. But now I see Robin Thicke using a similar idea in his magic video, so Janet must have done something right though she could have done more with it. | |
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You also don't see Madonna packing on weight in between projects and then losing it again.
And you don't see Madonna doing magazine cover and interview after interview about how she stays fit, even though she is more likely to give you the better advice. | |
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Madonna´s also more aggressive than Janet, that´s also important for success maybe more than what you actually do. It´s also probably true that Madonna is more interesting due to her "re-inventions", which are interesting even to me in a sence that they do catch even my attention, but not my heart because I don´t find them real. To me it´s a pose and if that´s enough for the general public to admire her for, than that explains why she´s more popular. Of course, Janet is more boring compared to her. But their music sucks. I am bored by both of them. I do even bother following what they do. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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dag said: It´s also probably true that Madonna is more interesting due to her "re-inventions", which are interesting even to me in a sence that they do catch even my attention,
Whether you find her new looks sincere or not, if Madonna has got your attention AGAIN then she has done a big part of the job for promotion. Janet in bondage gear for her album cover? Um... wasn't that in the liner notes for Velvet Rope ten years ago? Most people didn't go - "WHOA look at that new Janet Jackson album cover for Discipline. I am sure hot under my collar looking at that, and I find it really interesting". Madonna dresses up for Halloween and gets attention. Madonna in the ring as a boxing champion? Sure! As long as it makes people look and wonder what shes up to. They didn't even make a whole "theme" about the boxing ring. | |
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For the record, I bought Discipline and did not buy Hard Candy.
That's basically my consumer "vote". I really enjoy Janet's music a lot but I also recognize why it is failing to reach the general public. | |
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I think Discipline's cover could have been iconic with the look she's giving and the Discipline gloves, but what if it was another outfit? or if she had just left out the wires around her? | |
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Cinnie said: For the record, I bought Discipline and did not buy Hard Candy.
That's basically my consumer "vote". I really enjoy Janet's music a lot but I also recognize why it is failing to reach the general public. could have fooled meUnder certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer. | |
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alphastreet said: I think Discipline's cover could have been iconic with the look she's giving and the Discipline gloves, but what if it was another outfit? or if she had just left out the wires around her?
Just more cum-soaked sex kink. Is this what the public wants? No! | |
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Cinnie said: dag said: It´s also probably true that Madonna is more interesting due to her "re-inventions", which are interesting even to me in a sence that they do catch even my attention,
Whether you find her new looks sincere or not, if Madonna has got your attention AGAIN then she has done a big part of the job for promotion. Janet in bondage gear for her album cover? Um... wasn't that in the liner notes for Velvet Rope ten years ago? Most people didn't go - "WHOA look at that new Janet Jackson album cover for Discipline. I am sure hot under my collar looking at that, and I find it really interesting". Madonna dresses up for Halloween and gets attention. Madonna in the ring as a boxing champion? Sure! As long as it makes people look and wonder what shes up to. They didn't even make a whole "theme" about the boxing ring. I know that it works for the general public, or everyone including me. You just always notice her or anything she does. IT works, that´s what kept her in the public eye for so long and made her that famous....but it´s just sooooo shallow and not something to admire for me. Take Sade for instanse - the total opposite of commecrial - NO changes whatsoever. Of course, there aren´t that many people who know her. SHe definately ain´t a legend or an icon as Madonna, but create a Madonna thread and you´ll get this type of discussion. Create a thread about Sade and you won´t find a single negative comment because what she does may not be "interesting and catching attention" but it´s deep. And when something´s deep, there´s nothing to argue about. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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LiquidGold said: Cinnie said: For the record, I bought Discipline and did not buy Hard Candy.
That's basically my consumer "vote". I really enjoy Janet's music a lot but I also recognize why it is failing to reach the general public. could have fooled meWhat can I say, I am passionate about the topic. | |
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That's because Sade is a beautiful woman who don't seek attention for herself. Her music allowed her to do the talking.  | |
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Timmy84 said: That's because Sade is a beautiful woman who don't seek attention for herself. Her music allowed her to do the talking.
Yep, and that´s worthy of admiration to me, not that getting attention part. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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I thought we were talking about pop music here.
Sade is in a category by herself. Different ball game. Phenomenon like no other. | |
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JackieBlue said: TotalAlisa said: BEYONCE does NOT have class, i guess you haven't seen her video Single Ladies. and NOT to mention she married to that **** Jay Z Do you think Janet has class? More than beyonce. I think there are many tasteless and trashy things about janet. alphastreet said: TotalAlisa said: BEYONCE does NOT have class, i guess you haven't seen her video Single Ladies. and NOT to mention she married to that **** Jay Z why cause she was a bodysuit wearing Christian totalalisa? I just meant Beyonce has talent, even if I'm no longer a fan. oh okay. |
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Cinnie said: TotalAlisa said: How many older black artist are selling well compared to older white artist.
I think its her AGE that plays in her not succeeding as well. But really I know what madonna is doing to stay on top in the celebrity business and its more than "promotion" or "working hard".... If you don't know you should find out about madonna's extracurricular activities. I think the difference is Madonna toned down her sex image about 5 years before she turned 40. That's why Janet was doing okay around All For You still, but after that people expected a change. NO cinnie im not talking about the sex image. its something completely different from that. But janet toned down her sexy image as well. especially for the Dicipline album. |
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Cinnie said: I thought we were talking about pop music here.
Sade is in a category by herself. Different ball game. Phenomenon like no other. Yeah I know.  | |
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Timmy84 said: Cinnie said: I thought we were talking about pop music here.
Sade is in a category by herself. Different ball game. Phenomenon like no other. Yeah I know. No, she´s just the only inspired one. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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