JackieBlue said:

Exactly. People seem to forget how clean not just Bedtime Stories was, but also Evita, Ray Of Light, and the tour after those were.

SoulAlive said:

Carefully read my post again. I said Madonna used to be innovative by teaming up with unknown producers for a fresh sound (which means her cd's before Hard Candy) Now she chooses the most overhyped producer in the biz who hasn't hinself been innovative since he worked with Missy. His last best work went to Justin Timberlake. I agreed that Janet needs to go out the box, and look for unknown talent to create something new. I prefer creativity over album sales anyday. That's why I remain a strong Prince fan to this day. Lets face it. The top sellers on billboards hot 100 is Miley Cyrus and the Jonahs (or however you spell it) Brothers.
[Edited 10/31/08 12:28pm]
[Edited 10/31/08 12:29pm]

I just got the weirdest idea, but maybe another duet will justin timberlake will help her?

Cinnie said:

Remember when they announced that Janet's new album would be like her Dirty Mind?

That's pretty much the opposite of what the public is looking for.

totaldiva said:

musically, I think she does have a fresh sound on the Discipline album, she was beginning to sound redundant since Velvet Rope

Cinnie said:

That was such a wrong comparison. Damita Jo was anything but... but if I'm not mistaken, either JD or Virgin took out the Dirty Mind-esque material that Janet was working on with Dallas Austin... that's presumably tho.

totaldiva said:

I think Madonna was after the Nelly Furtado/Justin Timberlake sound, which was probably the greatest accomplishment from Timbaland (and Neptunes).

And you can't fault her for it because Hard Candy and the accompanying tour is wildly popular.

Timmy84 said:

The unreleased tracks like could this be love and I'm here (as a real album track) would have sat so well with the public and janet sounded GOOD on them. My cousin isn't into janet these days but someone at her campus played I'm Here cause it was included on some campus radio mixtape and she thought I'm Here was janet's new song and amazing, I had to tell her it was a bonus track only released in Japan.

How many older black artist are selling well compared to older white artist.
I think its her AGE that plays in her not succeeding as well. But really I know what madonna is doing to stay on top in the celebrity business and its more than "promotion" or "working hard".... If you don't know you should find out about madonna's extracurricular activities.

They compared Damita Jo to Dirty Mind?

I wouldn't go far to say that the album itself is "widely popular", least in America. I think it's only done like 630K in America. In comparison, Janet ain't really that far from here at 415K, lol.

Cinnie said:

yeah the album turned out really well

alphastreet said:

Yeah when I heard those three tracks I actually got mad that Virgin took them off the album.

Kanye didn't fit her sound at all besides the "I Want You" joint, lol.

Timmy84 said:

My point was they keep selling her the same way.

The songs on Discipline are not nearly as raunchy as the entire concept/album art wants to suggest. It could have been presented much friendlier to the public.

It is fine if she wants to display a fetish but don't be surprised if everyone is
a) not turned on by kink
b) no longer shocked by kink either

Timmy84 said:

madonna hasn't been popular with sales in the US for quite some time. From what I hear, people think she's over in the US, she's HUGE worldwide though, and in Canada she's still a big artist, her new stuff is always on the radio as much as her older stuff, and till this day I hear her work from Confessions at stores and restaurants.

Cinnie said:

That is true.

I'm not disputing it. I mean her worldwide sales for the album ain't nothing to gloat about either.

totaldiva said:

Madonna doesn't get a pass. She gets critized to death and if I was her I wouldn't read magazines too.

And please stop that stupid racism shit. It can't be denied of course, but not every black artist that's not successfull is not sucessfull because he's black. I i.e. didn't buy Janet's albums because minus Control and the Velvet Rope I find them boring and uninspiring. And I like Madonna's music because she makes great pop songs that are edgy. Skin color's got nothing to do with that!
Also as David said, there are so many black artists inb the Top Ten that it's stupid to say they donÄt have success.

TotalAlisa said:

I think the difference is Madonna toned down her sex image about 5 years before she turned 40.

That's why Janet was doing okay around All For You still, but after that people expected a change.

Timmy84 said:

I thought my baby was the most boring Janet song and it sounded like something for Ashanti or Mariah Carey. Strawberry Bounce and I Want You worked better for her, and most people who are saying she needed someone fresh are forgetting that Kanye West was just beginning to gain popularity in 2004 though he'd been producing for a few years, and Janet worked with him before he became famous.

Even Put It On Me and Pops Up should have been included on Damita jo, her vocals were on point instead of whispery and whiny like on some of the tracks.

as for black artists on the charts today, they all act gangster and sing/rap about bling. Black artists with taste and class aren't charting very much today except for Beyonce.

Remember when no one disagreed with this photo of Janet?



The public wants some non-sexual fluff.

"Feedback" was close, but the album cover for Discipline was a big fail, and the big video looked cheap.

alphastreet said:

BEYONCE does NOT have class, i guess you haven't seen her video Single Ladies.
and NOT to mention she married to that **** Jay Z

alphastreet said:

You know the strangest thing is after the first singles come out, Madonna's second and third singles always flop in America:

American Life:
"Die Another Day" was #8
"American Life" only hit #37 and people were turned off by that...RAP
"Hollywood" barely hit the chart if at all
"Nothing Fails"...

Confessions on a Dance Floor:
"Hung Up" hits #7
"Sorry" bombs
"Jump Up"? Neh (but both hit #1 on the dance chart)

Hard Candy:
"4 Minutes" with Justin hits #3
"Give It 2 Me" without no guest hits #57 then drops

...she's still successful but she'll never get back the consecutive streak she had between 1983 and 1991. But somehow she's always found a way to stick it out.

Janet has done the same thing albeit in less successful terms since 2004 but hey she's still sticking it out.

Maybe it's safe to say both artists can still have a hit single or a hit album but people think they're both over in the states as a sense. Madonna at least has a crutch to fall back on, unfortunately for Janet, she was always more successful in America than outside of it.

TotalAlisa said:

why cause she was a bodysuit wearing Christian totalalisa? I just meant Beyonce has talent, even if I'm no longer a fan.

alphastreet said:

Yeah I dug Put It On Me. I think Rich Harrison produced it.

TotalAlisa said:

Do you think Janet has class?

Cinnie said:

I remember loving that picture and thought she was going to be much classier, then she did all those unattractive photoshoots for VIBE, lying around in bikinis, and having shots with her top off and finding creative ways to cover her breasts like with suspensers, hugging herself, body tape, hugging herself naked while wearing a ridiculous headdress...

totaldiva said:

Interesting posts - both of them.

I persoanlly do not see that much hate towards Madonna in the press, even though I hardly read it, but when I do, I am always surprised how positive they are towards her and I think there´s a lot that could critise her for and they don´t which is surprising because the press loves to critices anything worthy of criticism or not, so I don´t know.

Timmy84 said:

People say videos don't matter as much, but for the first single back they really do, and Madonna hasn't had a cheap looking first video.

What has Janet had?
"Just A Little While" - Damita Jo
"Feedback" - Discipline

"So Excited" didn't look so bad but it was an "All Nite" knockoff where Janet's clothes get CGI'd away! Ridiculous!

Timmy84 said:

yeah I agree that's what happened with Madonna in the US, but in Canada (sorry I keep getting annoying with that), most of the singles off those albums were hits in the top 10. Love Profusion charted high here, one of the only countries in the world to do so. It's not uncommon to hear Sorry, Jump and Get Together on the radio here either, and Give It To Me and Miles Away are getting good airplay here. She's pretty much the queen here.