Just asking.

I remember junior high, 1993/94 - the janet. album was HUGE. it was number 1, her singles were number 1 (thats the way love goes, again), number 2 (anytime anyplace), her "if" video was EVERY OTHER video on MTV...meanwhile Madonna's erotica was all but ignored by the mainstream. her biggest hits only hit number 3 and number 6 (erotic and deeper and deeper), she had to OPEN the 1993 VMAs where as janet got to CLOSE. meanwhile, the janet tour was hitting major cities all over the US while madonna could only schedule 3-4 cities in the US. janet. sold what, 6 million? 10 million? erotica was like 3 million...then bedtime stories didn't even hit number 1, and janet. was still cranking out the hits (you want this).

fast forward to 2008...

you could argue they got on pretty much equal footing throughout the Something to Remember / Design of a Decade, Velvet Rope / Ray of Light, All For You / Music, and (flops) Damita Jo / American Life eras...in the US anyway...

and now we have Hard Candy outselling Discipline by 100k in first week sales, 4 minutes was number one on iTunes and number 3 on the BBH100, while Feedback, was, what, number 20? Meanwhile Madonna is doing multiple shows in US arenas and even playing a couple stadiums, while Janet can't sell out ONE arena show! What gives?

Is Madonna's music more timeless / nostalgic / universal?

Better reputation as a live performer?

Is race involved? Could Janet's career be more like Madonna's in America if she were white?

I personally MUCH prefer Janet's 00s output to Madonna's. Damita Jo, 20 YO and Discipline knock the socks of Music and Hard Candy IMO.

Madonna's succeeding because she's making right decisions, Janet's been a legion of bad ones STARTING with the Super Bowl, lol.

she made a huge mistake, than lied to the American Public, and than started following the advice of JD.

Madonna avoide America during the Girlie Show because of the Erotica/Sex/Body of Evidence backlash not because she couldn't sell tickets here.
[Edited 10/30/08 15:23pm]

She's more savvy.

Hmmmm let me see Cause she is WHITE?

I doubt it's a racism thing. It's just that Madonna has more timeless pop songs and had much more of them than Janet anyway.
Also Madonna's career has always been high. She had lower points but even then she still sould millions of albums and singles.

And yes, Madonna is the better live performer. Janet's doing it too save. And when she does a scandal it ends up to be embaraasing. As Madonna once said: "I NEVER took out my tits at prime time!"

ehuffnsd said:

She lied to the American public...the whore! Are we still upset over this? Like Justin didn't know what was going on?

Janet's brand name has been heavily tarnished by SuperBoob. Some would also say the quality of her music isn't up there, but let's compare not only the two albums but the two lead singles..."Feedback" is awesome while "Four Mintues" had most fans disappointed.

I like Janet, but the Rock With UR Mohawk tour don't look all that impressive overall.

I STILL think that a really excellent album (with Janet writing and little to no JD influence) could help Janet a whole lot. "Discipline" is a step in the right direction but was missing one thing..Janet! I might be alone in this thought, though.

Timmy84 said:

Madonna is an enigma, shes got more of a following and always did. I know peeps dont like to hear it, but she is the female version of MJ. Meaning she has got that worldwide appeal, and when you say Madonna people are always there. Janet does not have that. The thing is that for the most part neither is "huge" now in the USA its outside thats the big difference. Madonna hasnt faltered outside the USA, however Janet and now Mariah have both been struggling in the overseas markets, which at this point are more valuable

Contrary to what many of her fans think,I really don't think that Janet's problems have anything to do with the SuperBowl.That's old news that nobody even cares about anymore.I think she simply needs to re-focus her career,try some new things,go in a bold new direction.Maybe she needs a new manager who can get her on Broadway or on a TV sitcom?

VinnyM27 said:

The thing to always remember, is that America though it loves/loved the Jacksons, it also thinks they are liars, it started with Michael and then janet didnt help. Sure the boob thing was stupid, but this is ameerica, stupid shit like that matters for some reason. SO what does Janet do, it wasnt so much the lie of it, it was then to use it in every marketing ploy, when her album came out, every pose was a breast pose, hands over them, other hands over them etc...america kept the subject open but so did she, and im sure JD and her camp said it would be smart to do, but it wasnt. That and the fact that the music really has stunk for the most part.

SoulAlive said:

You see thats a great point, i think thats something Mariah needs too, BADLY!

SoulAlive said:

I respectfully disagree.

I think most people in the mainstream media and public still like to reference, make jokes about, and allude all things Janet to Tittygate, still. It's so dumb. Can't tell you how many idiots said 'I hope she doesn't have a wardrobe malfunction' when I told them I was going to see Janet. Read some reviews or her last couple albums, of her tour. Any article from 2006, 07, or 08. They all mention it somehow or another.

Race may have something to do with it but I think Madonna's more interesting, aggressive, outspoken, takes more chances and has confident attitude. Her live shows are never the same and keeps her fans worldwide coming back for more.

madonna's more intersting and shocking whereas Janet is just Michael Jacksons sister.

But my main question is still not so much what is Janet doing wrong - we all know where she's fucked herself (I think her music is still on point though).


What is Madonna still doing so right? If anything, I was such a big fan as a little kid, then hit my peak of fandom / obsession with M around 7th/8th/9th grade, then this decade, ever since my first spin of the "Music" LP, little by little I have slowly lost some interest in each and every project. RIT was a low point for me - it was her big huge greatest hits tour, it was supposed to be awesome - and I left the arena that night so disappointed. I did catch some of the Madonna fever back big time in 05/06 with Confessions - she had a truly fantastic stage show and some amazing songs - but now, eh...I'm excited to see her next week, but not sh*tting my pants like I would if it were 1995.

badujunkie said:

Madonna just has always done more interesting things, whatever they were, they were always more interesting. She has constantly re-invented herself, but she has a wider bigger fanbase that she can re-invent herself even if she loses parts of the base.

Janet's music is now worse than Madonna's. not on par with.
Madonna has more gay fans than Janet.
Madonna isn't related to Michael.
Madonna is more hip when it comes to current hot Producers.
Madonna is more of a publicity whore than Janet.
Madonna gets more airplay, radio and record company support than Janet.
Madonna isn't that much more successful than Janet, both of their last albums tanked compared to their peaks.
Stupid folks getting up in arms about the superbowl.
Nostalgia.Madonna has more memorable songs than Janet and worldwide has consistantly been more 'popular'

I was once a fan of both, but not anymore. So i'm unbiased. That's the honest way i see it.


[Edited 10/30/08 16:25pm]

badujunkie said:

I don't know what happened with this album...at this point it was sort of forgotten. Then again, did Janet do a whole lot of press either? I don't think so? The fact that she keeps refusing to talk about it (on Oprah or this or that one..."This the last time") sort of never makes it old news, either. It didn't get mentioned a whole lot when this album came out but then again, she didn't do a whole lot of press...I sound like a broken record. And it's Superboob, not Tittygate...don't be gross!

badujunkie said:

I really got into her during the "Bedtime Stories" era and that is still my second favorite album. "Evita" was an interesting project and while I didn't intinally love "Ray Of Light", it deserves all its acclaim. But after that...got kind of blah....

Because Madonna sings badly.

Janet sings VERY badly.

Marrk said:

I've never been able to figure out how gay men choose their cultural icons to adore. Madonna obviously has a nice ...erm... bump from her gay following.

As far as Janet being related to MJ, I don't think it's the "eeewwwww" factor that prevents her from selling albums, but that she is nowhere near as talented as her brother, and the comparisons always end up surfacing in that regard. It does hurt her a bit.

Ace said:

Pretty much. I don't care for Madonna's music but she's a smart businesswoman.

Marrk said:

I agree with a lot of that. People still saying titty-gate is being held against her still are just making excuses. M went the whole way with her sex book, and had a US number 1 2 years later. The reason janet aint doing as well is that a) her fan base was always largely US based, and b) her records have been way below par - by her own standards - and also by madonna's too. 20 YO was utterly dire, and while i enjoy Discipline- it still feels like more of the same. Frankly there's been no new ideas from her in well over a decade - its basically been 3-4 records of the same ideas. At least Madonna keeps changing her direction.

Imago said:

gay icons just happen there is nothing that makes one more than the other. just something about them draw the gays.

CrozzaUK said:

well between us both Crozza, i think we answered the thread question. no doubt it'll go on for ten pages though!

CrozzaUK said:

Madonna bared it all in a $50 dollar book one had to buy to see the photos. And said if you like cool if you don't fuck off.

Janet flashed on the superbowl on public television druing primetime, and than tried to pawn it off as something she wasn't expecting it.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

why people don't see the difference is beyond me.

Madonna know better how to push the envelope and keep people interested. Janet is kinda boring, and when she shocks it's just confusing--kinda like Michael touching his groin.

Neither is very talented, and neither really gives music anything new, but Madonna has established herself as more of an individual (mostly because of her ability to manipulate her image) and I can't help but see Janet as a subset of Michael and Prince.

There's nothing deep about the reasons. Not about race, not about gay/straight fans and certainly not about past controversies (both people have had them).

The name 'Madonna' simply still sells records despite the fact that Hard Candy is about as memorable as that thing the other day. Oh what was it..? Damn, I've forgotten.

Janet Jackson's music has been dull since All For You (the song).

Original question answered.

Haystack said:

OMG

~~not listening~~

I promised myself I'd listen to it a couple more times to see if I 'get it'.

It's poppy but ...sort of luke warmish. None of the songs stand out.



I miss the 80's--shamelessly catchy songs with a bit of attitude.

"At least Madonna keeps changing her direction"


Exactly.Every Madonna album isn't amazing,but at least we get a different album everytime.An album that doesn't sound exactly like the previous album.That's why I always look forward to new music from her.