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Reply #30 posted 10/30/08 12:54pm

dag

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Mars23 said:

Cinnamon234 said:



That's exactly what was going on. I don't get how some people didn't pick up on that. It was SO OBVIOUS he was making reference to those allegations, among other things.

"Ghosts" is not just some silly video with kids and "scary" effects. It's about more than that. What I got from watching "Ghosts" is that I realized Michael is more than aware of what the public's perception of him is than I had thought. He know's people think he's a "freak, monster, weirdo", etc. but the message he seems to be trying to convey is that he is very misundertstood and all he wants to do is to entertain and bring joy into people's lives with his music. I thought he was confronting many issues about his personal life in this though -from the allegations to plastic surgery-, he made reference to the "big" controversies. Just listen to some of the things he says and does in this film and it's obvious. Listening to "Is It Scary" especially, that song is all about how he thinks most of the public views him. Ghosts is autobiographical in many ways. I've learned more about him actually by watching "Ghosts" than pretty much seeing any interview of his or reading anything about him.
[Edited 10/30/08 12:18pm]



Yes, but by saying he's just misunderstood, Mike proves that he is the one misunderstanding reality.

Plying children with alcohol and providing them porn in order to lure them into your bed and have sex with them actually does make you a monster.

Really? For over a year, we were waiting for passionate Sneddon to prove that and he failed.
"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #31 posted 10/30/08 12:55pm

midnightmover

Annika said:

midnightmover said:


If I was to properly explain this it would take a lot of energy. At the moment I can't be bothered, but the most profound (and damning) revelations in Mike's work have never been commented on, even though they are pretty brazen.


As you said, they are pretty brazen. Which means that the vast majority of fans who can think at all have already seen them. comfort

I can assure you, they have not.
“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #32 posted 10/30/08 12:56pm

dag

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midnightmover said:

Annika said:



As you said, they are pretty brazen. Which means that the vast majority of fans who can think at all have already seen them. comfort

I can assure you, they have not.

Fortumately for us, the only person that can open our eyes does not feel like it right now.
"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #33 posted 10/30/08 12:58pm

Annika

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midnightmover said:

Annika said:



As you said, they are pretty brazen. Which means that the vast majority of fans who can think at all have already seen them. comfort

I can assure you, they have not.


Okay, then. confused
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Reply #34 posted 10/30/08 1:00pm

bboy87

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Mars23 said:

Cinnamon234 said:



That's exactly what was going on. I don't get how some people didn't pick up on that. It was SO OBVIOUS he was making reference to those allegations, among other things.

"Ghosts" is not just some silly video with kids and "scary" effects. It's about more than that. What I got from watching "Ghosts" is that I realized Michael is more than aware of what the public's perception of him is than I had thought. He know's people think he's a "freak, monster, weirdo", etc. but the message he seems to be trying to convey is that he is very misundertstood and all he wants to do is to entertain and bring joy into people's lives with his music. I thought he was confronting many issues about his personal life in this though -from the allegations to plastic surgery-, he made reference to the "big" controversies. Just listen to some of the things he says and does in this film and it's obvious. Listening to "Is It Scary" especially, that song is all about how he thinks most of the public views him. Ghosts is autobiographical in many ways. I've learned more about him actually by watching "Ghosts" than pretty much seeing any interview of his or reading anything about him.
[Edited 10/30/08 12:18pm]



Yes, but by saying he's just misunderstood, Mike proves that he is the one misunderstanding reality.

Plying children with alcohol and providing them porn in order to lure them into your bed and have sex with them actually does make you a monster.

wow, did you even take the time to look into the case or how the main "witnesses" kept contradicting themselves? confused
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #35 posted 10/30/08 1:04pm

bboy87

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Making of Ghosts


"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #36 posted 10/30/08 1:04pm

midnightmover

dag said:

midnightmover said:


I can assure you, they have not.

Fortumately for us, the only person that can open our eyes does not feel like it right now.

nod
“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #37 posted 10/30/08 1:06pm

bboy87

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"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #38 posted 10/30/08 1:26pm

Mars23

Moderator

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moderator

bboy87 said:

Mars23 said:




Yes, but by saying he's just misunderstood, Mike proves that he is the one misunderstanding reality.

Plying children with alcohol and providing them porn in order to lure them into your bed and have sex with them actually does make you a monster.

wow, did you even take the time to look into the case or how the main "witnesses" kept contradicting themselves? confused



Yea. The witnesses were terrible and the kidnapping angle was laughable. The alcohol and porn are very real however. The prosecutor went buck-wild and tried to tackle things they couldn't prove. He should have been acquitted on those charges.

Not because of innocence, but because of a terrible prosecution.

That doesn't make Thriller a bad record. It just makes MJ a creepy monster with a child fetish.
Studies have shown the ass crack of the average Prince fan to be abnormally large. This explains the ease and frequency of their panties bunching up in it.
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Reply #39 posted 10/30/08 1:31pm

dag

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Mars23 said:

bboy87 said:


wow, did you even take the time to look into the case or how the main "witnesses" kept contradicting themselves? confused



Yea. The witnesses were terrible and the kidnapping angle was laughable. The alcohol and porn are very real however. The prosecutor went buck-wild and tried to tackle things they couldn't prove. He should have been acquitted on those charges.

Not because of innocence, but because of a terrible prosecution.

That doesn't make Thriller a bad record. It just makes MJ a creepy monster with a child fetish.

If they were real, they could prove it.
"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #40 posted 10/30/08 1:38pm

Annika

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Mars23 said:

bboy87 said:


wow, did you even take the time to look into the case or how the main "witnesses" kept contradicting themselves? confused



Yea. The witnesses were terrible and the kidnapping angle was laughable. The alcohol and porn are very real however. The prosecutor went buck-wild and tried to tackle things they couldn't prove. He should have been acquitted on those charges.

Not because of innocence, but because of a terrible prosecution.

That doesn't make Thriller a bad record. It just makes MJ a creepy monster with a child fetish.


Yes, in the sense that they were really found in the home of a middle aged man. Where's your evidence that it was ever shown to kids?

Meh, let's not have another debate about this. If you read the case (not just the surrounding media) and came to that conclusion, so be it.
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Reply #41 posted 10/30/08 1:45pm

Mars23

Moderator

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moderator

Annika said:

Mars23 said:




Yea. The witnesses were terrible and the kidnapping angle was laughable. The alcohol and porn are very real however. The prosecutor went buck-wild and tried to tackle things they couldn't prove. He should have been acquitted on those charges.

Not because of innocence, but because of a terrible prosecution.

That doesn't make Thriller a bad record. It just makes MJ a creepy monster with a child fetish.


Yes, in the sense that they were really found in the home of a middle aged man. Where's your evidence that it was ever shown to kids?

Meh, let's not have another debate about this. If you read the case (not just the surrounding media) and came to that conclusion, so be it.



I'm OK with not opening a long debate either, but since you asked, the accuser and his brother's fingerprints were on porn collected from MJs bedroom. It's all in the case transcripts. I didn't follow any of the media coverage except to see the people crying and cheering outside the court each day.
Studies have shown the ass crack of the average Prince fan to be abnormally large. This explains the ease and frequency of their panties bunching up in it.
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Reply #42 posted 10/30/08 1:50pm

Annika

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Mars23 said:

Annika said:



Yes, in the sense that they were really found in the home of a middle aged man. Where's your evidence that it was ever shown to kids?

Meh, let's not have another debate about this. If you read the case (not just the surrounding media) and came to that conclusion, so be it.



I'm OK with not opening a long debate either, but since you asked, the accuser and his brother's fingerprints were on porn collected from MJs bedroom. It's all in the case transcripts. I didn't follow any of the media coverage except to see the people crying and cheering outside the court each day.


Hmm, I don't remember the fingerprints with clarity. Wasn't there something about them being on magazines published months after it supposedly happened? I might be wrong, my memory is fuzzy here.
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Reply #43 posted 10/30/08 1:56pm

vainandy

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JackieBlue said:

Yes, definitely about the allegations but not just a video but an taking the chance to thumb his nose at those involved. Maybe not the best idea. He might as well have flipped them the bird. I knew someday something would come up again.


Oh, it was very evident that he was trying to give folks the finger about the past allegations but that video wasn't pissing people off and making them mad because he was hanging out with kids. It was more like turning their stomachs because whether he was sleeping with the children or not, the fact that he hangs out and plays with them and their toys as if he is a child himself is a turnoff. He went from being a "cool" entertainer in the 70s and early 80s, to becoming a star that competes with Barney and Sesame Street. That is the definition of "uncool".

Knowing Michael's childish mind though, he probably thought he was pissing people off. People were making fun and laughing at him when they saw it is more like it.
Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #44 posted 10/30/08 2:01pm

Mars23

Moderator

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moderator

Annika said:

Mars23 said:




I'm OK with not opening a long debate either, but since you asked, the accuser and his brother's fingerprints were on porn collected from MJs bedroom. It's all in the case transcripts. I didn't follow any of the media coverage except to see the people crying and cheering outside the court each day.


Hmm, I don't remember the fingerprints with clarity. Wasn't there something about them being on magazines published months after it supposedly happened? I might be wrong, my memory is fuzzy here.



I'll orgnote you.

I apologize. I'm not trying to jack this thread and actually am interested in seeing this video now.

I'll orgnote links for any questions about what I said though.
Studies have shown the ass crack of the average Prince fan to be abnormally large. This explains the ease and frequency of their panties bunching up in it.
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Reply #45 posted 10/30/08 2:01pm

Cinnamon234

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Mars23 said:





Yes, but by saying he's just misunderstood, Mike proves that he is the one misunderstanding reality.

Plying children with alcohol and providing them porn in order to lure them into your bed and have sex with them actually does make you a monster.


Look you are entitled to your opinion, but I think you should be positive of what you're saying before making such serious allegations such as that one. It doesn't seem to me like you've even read too much about those cases and I really don't see how you would know that happened unless you were actually there yourself or have some other concreate proof.

I am really not in the mood to get into a long debate about these allegations right now though, but yes I think everyone can agree Michael has issues. I think we can all also agree he is weird, however being weird is not a crime and it doesn't mean he's a criminal either. I just don't think he's this evil, crazy guy so many people seem to think he is.
"And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ heart

"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always heart
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Reply #46 posted 10/30/08 2:01pm

Timmy84

As much entertaining as that video seemed, it was still all confusing. Yeah I could see how the video was a cathartic look at how Michael was viewed in the press and particularly by the person he was supposedly portraying in the film. It was really too much. The dancing, the fake acting (Michael's acting is horrendous by the way) and the weird special effects. But of course this is a "ghoulish video". An attempt to outdo "Thriller", lol. That's all I saw: as "an attempt to outdo Thriller". The only thing really outstanding about it is that it broke a Guinness World Record but that's just about it. confused
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Reply #47 posted 10/30/08 2:04pm

Annika

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Timmy84 said:

As much entertaining as that video seemed, it was still all confusing. Yeah I could see how the video was a cathartic look at how Michael was viewed in the press and particularly by the person he was supposedly portraying in the film. It was really too much. The dancing, the fake acting (Michael's acting is horrendous by the way) and the weird special effects. But of course this is a "ghoulish video". An attempt to outdo "Thriller", lol. That's all I saw: as "an attempt to outdo Thriller". The only thing really outstanding about it is that it broke a Guinness World Record but that's just about it. confused


Yeah, the acting is pretty bad. I disagree with you on the effects, though! I love them. razz
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Reply #48 posted 10/30/08 2:04pm

Cinnamon234

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I don't think his acting in this is horrendous at all, that's exagerrating big time. Now I will say that he was horrible in the long version of "Bad" lol, but he was pretty decent in this. I enjoyed this whole video. "Ghosts" showcased some of MJ's best and most creative dancing ever and his vocals in this are great too.
"And When The Groove Is Dead And Gone, You Know That Love Survives, So We Can Rock Forever" RIP MJ heart

"Baby, that was much too fast"...Goodnight dear sweet Prince. I'll love you always heart
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Reply #49 posted 10/30/08 2:07pm

Timmy84

Cinnamon234 said:

I don't think his acting in this is horrendous at all, that's exagerrating big time. Now I will say that he was horrible in the long version of "Bad" lol, but he was pretty decent in this. I enjoyed this whole video. "Ghosts" showcased some of MJ's best and most creative dancing ever and his vocals in this are great too.


Oh no it's just as bad. I like the dancing, don't get me wrong. lol
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Reply #50 posted 10/30/08 2:27pm

dag

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Annika said:

Mars23 said:




I'm OK with not opening a long debate either, but since you asked, the accuser and his brother's fingerprints were on porn collected from MJs bedroom. It's all in the case transcripts. I didn't follow any of the media coverage except to see the people crying and cheering outside the court each day.


Hmm, I don't remember the fingerprints with clarity. Wasn't there something about them being on magazines published months after it supposedly happened? I might be wrong, my memory is fuzzy here.

Your memory is right. I remember it the same way. I don´t wanna get too much into this, but I remember they scanend the fingerprints after they gave the magazines to the boys during the court procedings - ridiculous.
"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #51 posted 10/30/08 2:30pm

SoulAlive

I think Michael's acting is pretty good in "Ghosts".He seems much more confident and relaxed than he has in previous videos/mini-movies.I was pleasantly surprised.
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Reply #52 posted 10/30/08 2:31pm

Timmy84

SoulAlive said:

I think Michael's acting is pretty good in "Ghosts".He seems much more confident and relaxed than he has in previous videos/mini-movies.I was pleasantly surprised.


I think he was funny when he kept shouting "anyone wanna play games? HELLO! Game time!" lol
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Reply #53 posted 10/30/08 2:33pm

dag

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SoulAlive said:

I think Michael's acting is pretty good in "Ghosts".He seems much more confident and relaxed than he has in previous videos/mini-movies.I was pleasantly surprised.

I agree.
"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #54 posted 10/30/08 2:41pm

vainandy

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SoulAlive said:

I think Michael's acting is pretty good in "Ghosts".He seems much more confident and relaxed than he has in previous videos/mini-movies.I was pleasantly surprised.


I actually recorded it when it aired on VH1, thinking it was going to be similar to "Thriller". I recorded (anything on TV) over the tape immediately afterwards just to make sure that I never played that tape by mistake in front of someone. lol
Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #55 posted 10/30/08 2:42pm

Timmy84

vainandy said:



I actually recorded it when it aired on VH1, thinking it was going to be similar to "Thriller". I recorded (anything on TV) over the tape immediately afterwards just to make sure that I never played that tape by mistake in front of someone. lol


Was it that bad to you? falloff
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Reply #56 posted 10/30/08 2:45pm

vainandy

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Timmy84 said:

vainandy said:



I actually recorded it when it aired on VH1, thinking it was going to be similar to "Thriller". I recorded (anything on TV) over the tape immediately afterwards just to make sure that I never played that tape by mistake in front of someone. lol


Was it that bad to you? falloff


I loved the music in the video. But hanging out with those kids and thinking he's one of them himself is just damn embarassing.
Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #57 posted 10/30/08 2:47pm

Timmy84

vainandy said:



I loved the music in the video. But hanging out with those kids and thinking he's one of them himself is just damn embarassing.


Ah I see. Yeah, one of them was from "HIStory", the other songs were from "Blood on the Dance Floor". I think that video was a reason that album hit number-one in England.
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Reply #58 posted 10/30/08 3:08pm

bboy87

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SoulAlive said:

I think Michael's acting is pretty good in "Ghosts".He seems much more confident and relaxed than he has in previous videos/mini-movies.I was pleasantly surprised.

I feel that Michael doesn't think that much about the script. I think more thought could've been put into Bad, Moonwalker, and Ghosts

at least Captain EO had a better script lol
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #59 posted 10/30/08 3:10pm

Timmy84

bboy87 said:

SoulAlive said:

I think Michael's acting is pretty good in "Ghosts".He seems much more confident and relaxed than he has in previous videos/mini-movies.I was pleasantly surprised.

I feel that Michael doesn't think that much about the script. I think more thought could've been put into Bad, Moonwalker, and Ghosts

at least Captain EO had a better script lol


And that in of itself speaks volumes. lol
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