alphastreet said:

And yeah, Whitney killed r&b and opened up doors for r&b albums to be full of disposable ballads with only a few standing out.

Pop killed all R&B, not just The Jacksons.

The Victory Tour was the beginning of the backlash towards Michael. That dumbass ticket system they had was ridiculous, but because Michael was the star, most of the negativity came back at him. I have a news report when the tour was starting and they were speaking to fans and some said "Michael ain't right for that, we ain't his fans no more"

One reporter felt that Michael should've done a Broadway play instead. Funny thing is, Michael WAS working on a Broadway show but shelved it to work on Captain EO and Bad

The Victory Tour was the beginning of the backlash towards Michael. That dumbass ticket system they had was ridiculous, but because Michael was the star, most of the negativity came back at him. I have a news report when the tour was starting and they were speaking to fans and some said "Michael ain't right for that, we ain't his fans no more"

bboy87 said:

I saw the press conference where Michael deflected alot of flak by stating he'd decided he was doing it for nothing, he gave his cut from the entire tour to charity.

Don King and his brothers were like,

"well we aint, we're broke!" you could see his brothers thinking, even behind their aviators. .

That little miss goodie two shoes made it even worse because not only did she water her music down with pop, but she also watered it down with adult contemporary which is 10 times worse because it eventually led to people making full albums with not one damn fast song on them. Also, with all that "good clean wholesome family music" all over the radio, it left the doors wide open for shit hop to come in and fill the rebellion void that was there when funk got scarce. Dammitt, I feel my blood pressure raising now.
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[Edited 10/23/08 11:19am]

bboy87 said:

shesoffthewall said:

Also, the price for that tour was rediculous. The tickets were like $30 to $35 which was unheard of back then because most R&B concerts were like $8 to $10 and $15 to $20 for somebody really huge like Diana Ross. The Victory tour is when I first starting hearing people say that Michael cared more about his white fans than his did his black fans.

That little miss goodie two shoes made it even worse because not only did she water her music down with pop, but she also watered it down with adult contemporary which is 10 times worse because it eventually led to people making full albums with not one damn fast song on them. Also, with all that "good clean wholesome family music" all over the radio, it left the doors wide open for shit hop to come in and fill the rebellion void that was there when funk got scarce. Dammitt, I feel my blood pressure raising now.
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[Edited 10/23/08 11:19am]

curioso said:

curioso said:

Whitney Houston had no obligation to keep the funk and 'fast' music alive.

She never started out as a funkster or a songwriter. She's a great vocalist who did Pop/R&B/Adult contempary music.

No crime in that.

vainandy said:

It's better than Victory.

But it's very much of it's time. Riley and Babyface etc.

I love 'Maria' by Jermaine. Great pop/RnB.

She couldn't have done it even if she wanted to because she ain't got no rhythm.



Yeah and opera singers are great vocalists also but I wouldn't want to listen to them either.




No, there's no crime in her doing the type of music she wanted to do. The real crime was the R&B stations playing her to begin with. If little miss goodie two shoes wanted to make adult contemporary music, they should have played her on adult contemporary stations only, right along side folks like Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond. That way, she couldn't do any damage. They could have all been dull in their own little world to their heart's content. Miss goodie goodie couldn't have made near the money she made that way though.

vainandy said:

Whitney Houston had no obligation to keep the funk and 'fast' music alive.
She never started out as a funkster or a songwriter. She's a great vocalist who did Pop/R&B/Adult contempary music.
No crime in that.

No, there's no crime in her doing the type of music she wanted to do. The real crime was the R&B stations playing her to begin with. If little miss goodie two shoes wanted to make adult contemporary music, they should have played her on adult contemporary stations only, right along side folks like Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond. That way, she couldn't do any damage. They could have all been dull in their own little world to their heart's content. Miss goodie goodie couldn't have made near the money she made that way though.

shesoffthewall said:

I didn't even bother to buy that one.

"You Give Good Love" sounds more like adult contemporary to me and should have been played on adult contemporary stations only. The fact that the record label would even consider promoting an artist that has no rhythm to an R&B station (the "R" in R&B is short for "rhythm") is rediculous. Considering R&B stations to play her rhythmless music that doesn't fit the genre simply because she's a black artist is racist. Dammitt, why didn't they promote The Bus Boys to R&B radio then? Even though they were rock, they sure had much more rhythm than little miss goodie good.

"You Give Good Love" sounds more like adult contemporary to me and should have been played on adult contemporary stations only. The fact that the record label would even consider promoting an artist that has no rhythm to an R&B station (the "R" in R&B is short for "rhythm") is rediculous. Considering R&B stations to play her rhythmless music that doesn't fit the genre simply because she's a black artist is racist. Dammitt, why didn't they promote The Bus Boys to R&B radio then? Even though they were rock, they sure had much more rhythm than little miss goodie good.

vainandy said:

It is adult contempary but as you say she was black and she had a soulful voice.
Maybe true R&B and Funk fans should have stuck only with that because you know some of them were buying Whitney's album.

Yeah, but while Dionne was making her type of music, it wasn't really influencing droves of other artists to follow suit. Lionel Richie was another one but for every "Truly" type song he made, five Cameo/Barkays/Rick James type songs were being made.

When Shitney came along, it was after "Thriller" had been huge. There had been crossover stuff before but never as huge as that album. It was like nothing the world had ever seen before. There were black people listening to it. There were white people listening to it. Michael was a nice "safe" young black artist also so many mothers and grandmothers (especially white ones) didn't feel threatened by their children listening to his music. I'm sure Shitney's writers and producers were taking notice of all this prior to recording her album and thinking....."Hey, what if we could take that pop sound, give it to another "safe" black artist, and water it down even more so that not only would the white mothers and grandmothers not feel threatened by it, but they would actually like the music themselves. Just imagine the sales!".....and when little miss goodie two shoes actually delivered huge sales, they knew they had a winning formula. Other artists started taking notice of that formula also.
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[Edited 10/23/08 12:02pm]

curioso said:

I doubt it. Whitney Houston was a pop artist from day one.

curioso said:

I doubt it. Whitney Houston was a pop artist from day one.

Timmy84 said:

They had to be. 'You Give Good Love' charted on the R&B charts first.

Timmy84 said:

They had to be. 'You Give Good Love' charted on the R&B charts first.

curioso said:

Doesn't mean she was branded as a true R&B artist.