Timmy84 said:

I believe this to be true. I think I even seen Janet with her at an award show. It was either her daughter or a niece. but I saw her with a little girl at an award show she got for an obscure songwriter award.. the song was "Again" and she shared the award (someone else also got an award with her) with a man who co-wrote the song.

One of the reasons I believe that story to be true is that it has been around so long and through the years, it has never changed that much. Plus, the Jacksons and Janet, esp are good at hiding shit. No one knew she was married to Rene Elizondo until she filed for divorce.

filmnoirdame said:

plus I remember reading in my local paper entertainment section that Debbie Allen in an interview said that Janet was "in the family way" and I remeber she got fat on Fame, wore a lot of denim jumpers with tie belts to try to jazz up her baggy clothes she was wearing. then she suddenly divorced James, spent time in france (Paris) then suddenly she was hooking up with Flyte time production. I really think she decided to pursue fame and gave up the girlish dreams and got on with her career.

Either way, a lot of effed up shit went down with Debarge. I wonder how much of it was them and how much of it was people trying to get at their money.

I never followed the Debarges except the common rumors that invovled Janet and james.

but I get the impression, that the Debarges were a rough bunch (ghetto) and that was one of the reasons that the Jacksons did not accept James and Janet.

I remember someone who claimed insider info of Debarges who were neighbors in Lansing (or Flint... I can't remember which one right now), who gossiped about how the Debarges and Jacksons had some sort of family gathering and someone's fur coat came up missing and the Debarges were accused of lifting a coat of a Jackson family member.

so the drug dealing etc, was something they did before they got into music and was what they went back to when the music thing dried up.

I never heard in any way that the Debarges were ghetto-I always heard they were really religious and grew up poor.

I also never heard talk of the Debarges mingling with the Jacksons. I heard the number one reason that Joe Jackson didn't approve was that he did not want Janet getting out of his control.

filmnoirdame said:

Janet was gonna leave Joe anyway. She wasn't like her elder siblings. She left at 20. The other Jacksons left his control around 25-30.

And that marriage speeded up the process. I also think that maybe Joe thought he and the family were better than the Debarges and thought the Debarges were trying to eclipse his family

filmnoirdame said:

Etterlene said the same thing about her children being better than the Jacksons, lol. As much alike as they are, they're incomparable.

Huh? I don't get you.

filmnoirdame said:

Well, for starters, here's the similarities:

*Both the Jacksons and DeBarge were signed to Motown.
*Both of them were brought in the Midwest (Jacksons in Indiana and DeBarge in Michigan).
*The father of DeBarge was reportedly abusive, the father of the Jacksons has been regarded as abusive.
*The Jacksons and DeBarges' successes in Motown helped the label maintain its leverage if only for a little while.
*Both the Jacksons and DeBarges consisted of large families of ten children (though Marlon's twin brother died).

Now the differences:
*The Jacksons were Jehovah's Witnesses; the DeBarges are devout Christians.
*The Jacksons' first four singles hit number-one on the POP chart, DeBarge never had that.
*The Jacksons were all fine dancers (well mainly Jackie, Marlon and Michael); DeBarge were more singers than dancers.
*While both Michael and El seemed to be the biggest talents of their families, Michael had a much more marketable image than El, whom Motown didn't know what to do with it because they wanted him to be MICHAEL.
*Let's see, Michael can or could sing from falsetto to tenor to almost baritone (hear his multi-tracked background vocals if you don't believe me), El's voice, while nice, doesn't have that kind of range, neither did Bobby's.
*The Jacksons could play instruments though DeBarge members played more and you often see many members play instruments compared to the Jacksons.
*Once "Thriller" took off, the private lives of the Jacksons were open season, but DeBarge never had a major scandal, you never heard from them after 1989, it took CHICO to bring the DeBarge name back into the mainstream vision.
*The Jacksons, much like The Supremes, were marketable to everybody regardless of age or race, DeBarge couldn't get as big outside the R&B community.
*The Jacksons never got involved with street drugs since their parents sheltered them and it was only later that we heard about Michael's troubles with prescription drugs, DeBarge of course dealt with the street drugs (and that was one of the reasons Joe feared them).

Thanks for that, but I want to say a few:
What are multi track vocals?
Also, I agree that El can't really sing that deep-his vocals are mid to high, but you have to admit, his voice is AMAZING
Actually, I did hear about the Debarges after 89. El had a successful solo career to a degree. He did the Secret Garden with Barry White and did that "You Will Know" song off of Jason's Lyric and had some good solo songs that I heard on the radio.
What were the other reasons Joe feared Debarge other than the street drugs?

filmnoirdame said:

Multi-tracked vocals mean that a singer can bring out different tones and mix them as if a group was backing them up but it's the same singer. MJ, Prince and Marvin Gaye were notorious for that, Marvin being the first to do it in the seventies.

And I meant DeBarge as a WHOLE. Of course El made some noise here and there but it was because of guest spots. Chico DeBarge's comeback in 1997, 1998 brought renewed attention to the group and also the hip-hop samples. Before then, people thought DeBarge was pretty much finished until then.

I remember when Chico's album dropped in 98. Everybody was playing that. And I was shocked, cause I never heard of him till then, but apparently he had a hit single in 88. I remember thinking he was kinda different from the rest of the Debarges. He is also 5 years younger than El-I thought he was much younger.

Here is Chico on Soul Train in 86 doint Talk to Me

[Edited 9/28/08 17:29pm]

filmnoirdame said:

Nah, they continue to say that Rebbie raised the child, but Rebbie's daughters are actually TOO close to Janet's age (Stacy and Yashi are like 2-6 yrs younger than Janet) then say that either Jackie's daughter Brandi or Jermaine's daughter Autumn is the daughter but Brandi was born in 1982 and Autumn was born in the late 70s

All, I know is, like I said, that rumor has been around forever. Back around the time Justin Timberlake's first cd dropped, there was a blind item about a young pop star dating an older music star who dropped her when he found out she had a kid around his age. That was Janet and Justin-they were spotted getting real cozy in some Atlanta clubs at that time

Timmy84 said:

Yeah, ole girl seemed real convinced that her children were better than the Jacksons.

I remember reading how Joe made it perfectly clear that if he hurt Janet, his foot was gonna be in that ass AND poor James was living with them at Hayvenhurst(BAD DECISION!). Janet was going out to get him from drug houses in LA and Hollywood

When did Joe say that if James hurt janet, allhell would break loose? Why didn't James and Janet live on their own?

filmnoirdame said:

"Talk to Me" was a real big deal in 1986. I was shocked he came back...and came back better than ever!

filmnoirdame said:

Janet and James did live on their own but it was said James would go out every night finding his cocaine dealer and getting high and Janet sometimes had to go to the streets to find him. I think after this is when they moved to the Hayvenhurst home.

Also if Joe said something about doing something to James if he hurt Janet... I think we pretty much know what Joe was saying...
[Edited 9/28/08 16:29pm]

filmnoirdame said:

Joe Jackson never has to say anything


it's all in the eyes

Who left the towel in the pool?!

j/k anyway

I don't know why they didn't live on their own. some of the kids either moved after getting married or moved back in like Jermaine and Randy


Joe actually put his hands on James a couple of times, just like he beat up Jack Gordon. When a muthafucka picks you up by the COLLARBONE, do you really wanna mess with him after that?
[Edited 9/28/08 16:33pm]

Wasn't there an article that talked about Janet's marriage to James. I swear it came out not too long ago...

"Talk to me" was a big deal? Really?

filmnoirdame said:

It peaked at #21 on the Hot 100, #7 on the R&B charts, and #88 in the UK

Damn, that is impressive. Was that his only hit off that debut cd?
Rumor has it that Chico and Beyonce had a thing back in the day and Daddy Knowles put a stop to it.

filmnoirdame said:

"Kiss Serious", I believe that was the name, went to #18 on the R&B chart. I think afterwards, he and Bobby got arrested for the drug trafficking charge.

Chico was also involved with Nona Gaye at one point.

filmnoirdame said:

Wait, when did Joe put his hands on James?

filmnoirdame said:

I think James was at the house and he was acting high or something and he and Joe got into it, which is pretty common since Joe has had some kind of confrontation with some his kids in laws, except Marlon, Michael, and Rebbie's spouses

Where did you hear this? Joe needs to stay out of his kids's marriages

filmnoirdame said:

It was in this biography about Janet that came out around 1994 or so.

Scandalous.
But back on point, I would have loved for the debarges and the jacksons to have recorded together.