filmnoirdame said:

So, in addition to being one of the greatest R&B singers of all time, he's also one of the greatest songwriters too? Riiight...

You are either totally insane, or on El's payroll

Bishop31 said:

What about countertenors?

El's a good songwriter matter of fact all the Debarge siblings can write songs and play music (Bobby & Bunny were the best in the family), but they worked the best when they write together. Listen to Heart Mind & Soul, the best songs on the CD were El's collaborations with his family. They're are the few musicial families next to the Sylvers that were great songwriters who didn't need help from outside writer/producers.

FuNkeNsteiN said:

looks up definition of "countertenors"

El and Bobby were called countertenors, I don't know if that's true or not though. Could be, lol.

1) Why does it make me insane if I think that El is a great songwriter and one of rnb's greatest singers? Why is that impossible?

2) Bunny and Bobby had mad musical skills. In fact, Bunny worked on a lot of Switch stuff.

3) How can Bobby and El be tenors when they could sing so high? Their voices weren't deep enough to be tenors.

I say El. His voice sound prettier than Prince. But I agree Bobby was the best of 3. His voice was the clearest, truest sounding falsetto.

I will say this, the Debarge would get diss for their songwriting abilities because their material was not "meaningful" like Stevie, EWF, etc.

But you know, now comparing Debarge with what is out there today, they had mad skills. I really like their melodies and hooks. That little bit from stay with me, that is sampled over and over again in hip hop, (particularly Biggie's song) is pure gold.

I am just amazed how people create.

for those who compose original music, do you hear the music in your mind and then recreate on instrument, or are you just messing around on instrument and stumble onto something catchy?

Prodigalfan, your avi looks like Bobby Debarge, even though it is Prince.

At the time and I don't remember it too clearly, because I was really small-my older cousins knew more about Debarge than I did, but I think a lot of critics were dismissive of them and thought they were trying to copy the Debarges and were not as talented as them. The Debarge vs. the Jacksons debate was almost as heated as the Prince vs. MJ debate.

But now, it is really obvious that Debarge's music has stood the test of time and they really were insanely talented. They should have been much bigger than they were at the time. I don't think Motown was that invested in promoting them.

bboy87 said:

me too!

I still wanna know how El and Bobby could be considered tenors when they could sing falsetto

filmnoirdame said:

One reason why it's heated (and remains so) is because Bobby and James dated the two younger Jackson sisters (La Toya and Janet) and we know how protective Joe Jackson was of his kids especially his daughters. I think both brothers' drug abuse caused their respective relationships to dissolve.

Plus some members of DeBarge still shout out to the heavens that Janet and James had a daughter though James said that he doesn't know of said baby.

I would say Joe was more of a tyrant than protective of his kids. *small voice* I have always believed that Janet baby story

filmnoirdame said:

Motown was invested in promoting them but that was the problem, they were promoting them into the next family of pop music which was fuckin stupid. The Debarge familiy were cut from the Marvin Gaye mold, very religious, musicially inclined but had demons up the ass.

I think Motown was more interested in making $ than anything. I remember there was a ton of drama when Motown basically spun El off from Debarge,which I think was a huge ass mistake. Debarge should have made 2 more cds before El went solo, especially after the huge crossover succes of Rhythm of the Night. They were trying to make El into the next MJ and El didn't have the flash for that.

One thing, though, I have always been impressed by the bond between that family. Through ups and downs, they have each other's backs and love each other like no one's business. Their bond is TIGHT. The Jacksons aren't like that.

thatruth said:

Motown honestly did not know what to do with the DeBarges. Motown failed to realize that they weren't ever gonna be "the first family of pop", their image wasn't squeaky clean and many of the pre-"Rhythm of the Night" had a grown-ass folks look at things as well as a gospel complex to them. They definitely had demons a'la Marvin Gaye/Al Green/Bobby Womack/Sam Cooke, etc.

filmnoirdame said:

I give them that. You've seen many of the DeBarge family together at some place. I think El and Chico are VERY close tho.

And not for nothing, but Debarge did not make pop music, Rhythm and maybe "You Wear it Well" notwithstanding. I always hated Rhythm and felt it was out of place in the Debarge canon and now I know it is because Diane Warren wrote it.

Debarge was straight up RNB, even verging on adult contemporary at times. They were never going to be or meant to be pop.

Timmy, what are you trying to say re Chico and El being VERY close. I think they are all equally close. That is one tight family.

Edit: From what I remember, Debarge did have a really squeaky clean image. How the hell they managed to cover up all that dirt and how not a peep got out about El having all them kids is beyond me. That is just testimony to Motown's pr department
[Edited 9/27/08 22:21pm]

filmnoirdame said:

Because of the pictures and videos I've seen of them together, that's all.

I'm sure you heard that not too long ago El and Chico performed together at some House of Blues event in a dedication to their late brother Bobby (they were singing "There'll Never Be").

Yeah, I have seen that video and to be honest, if I was Chico, I wouldn't be performing with El. El blows him out of the water. There is a switch song they did and they both do falsetto. El sounds fine, but Chico's voice is like nails on a chalkboard. His voice and El's don't mesh. I mean, if Chico wasn't a Debarge, maybe he would be considered a better than average singer, but next to El, he doesn't cut it. Chico has more of an average, contemporary voice, while El has and I don't say something like this often, but El has a gift from God in his voice.

filmnoirdame said:

All males can sing in falsetto. That has nothing to do with being a tenor.

Thanks for clearing that up

filmnoirdame said:

No problem

Do you know what a counter tenor is by any chance?

filmnoirdame said:

Yes

Spill!

filmnoirdame said:

A countertenor is a male who sings in contralto, mezzo-soprano or soprano range (female ranges, they are pretty high for a male) using falsetto. I've only seen the term being used in a classical music context.
[Edited 9/28/08 12:35pm]

Timmy84 said:

what? I didn't know Bobby dated Latoya.

The Jackson and the Debarges have been entertwined since day one.
So, El and Bobby are classical singers then, Funkenstein?