How does this thread demonstrate that MJ fans think he can do no wrong? Because they don't believe he has no talent? The premise was pretty dumb, I agree, but it seems to me like most fans are being pretty reasonable in this thread.

Why is it that the second people suggest that MJ has any real talent, they are labelled fanatics who believe he can do no wrong?

people aren't saying he has no talent, they are pointing out that he is extremely overrated and isn't as comparitively talented as his fame. as this is a prince site, there will be obvious comparisons drawn in which case as prince can do everything that MJ can do, and far more, he essentially wipes the floor with MJ talent wise

the fact is that MJ released a couple of really great albums, and literally went from bad to worse with his follow up albums, which along with his extremely tasteless personal issues is the reason he hasn't released anything or performed live in concert for many years

as his most notable "live" performances were memorably mainly for being dancing along to lip synching, or other special effects, to make claims that he is the greatest live performer on a fan website belonging to someone who has received non stop critical acclaim for performing live over the past 30 years, including performances this year and last, breaking world records as recently as last year with his london shows, and with his previous musicology tour being the most profitable of the year, is just ridiculous. you are comparing someone who essentially is a singer and dancer, with someone who not only sings and dances, but blows the roof off the venue with guitar playing, or kills the audience with his piano and keyboard skills. that's what it really boils down to

and to harp on about the few hit songs he actually did have a hand in writing, or his shitty sounding demos, or "credits" with playing some instruments, is just laughable compared to the thousands of songs prince wrote, recorded and produced himself, including all the hit records that prince has had in the past 30 years, all of which he wrote himself. who gives a fuck if MJ wrote we are the world or billie jean, he didn't write most of his hit records, didn't play a note on them, got someone to produce them, and a ton of other people to make the videos. MJ sang and danced, that's it. he sang good on the records and danced good in the videos, but so did britney spears and a bunch of other no talent losers who didn't write, perform or produce a note themselves either

if lipsynching and dancing onstage is something worthy of the greatest live performer ever, then what the fuck is the world coming too? prince will play for over 2 hours solid, playing his own songs, singing live, playing guitar and keyboards live, with a proper band who can jam and improvise, and then afterwards he will do it all again for another couple of hours at an aftershow concert, playing a completely different setlist. when MJ starts to do something like that, instead of whatever the fuck he is doing now, then he could be considered as a live performer, but whilst he pisses his talent away by wasting his time on this earth instead of releasing music or playing live shows, he just isn't a serious contender for such a title, especially not with his attrocious live tours of the past, so long ago that no-one can recollect them properly, and there are no official live dvds to remind anyone just how poor they were. if they were any good they would have been released on dvd long ago to cash in, instead of releasing thriller or his greatest hits for the umpteenth time with the same fucking songs on them. how many times do you need thriller, beat it and billie jean on a cd? his ratio of proper studio solo album compared to hits album is a joke

two great albums, one okay album, followed by three shit ones. sure, the last few prince albums haven't been great, but he has a ton of outstanding ones, and even the worst ones are far better than MJs post 80s output. it's no wonder MJ fans go on about billie jean so much as those were the days when he was great, but that was over 25 years ago and he's never been half as good since, that's a fact, and it's a crying shame an artist on top of their game with so much potential fucked everything up so much. the question is, why can't MJ fan's see that impartially, instead of thinking he can't do no wrong, especially defending his child molestation case and refusing to believe he could do no wrong, when he admitted during a tv interview that he slept with young boys, and denies he has plastic surgery, and all sorts of other blantant lies. how can people be so blind? if prince did a simlar thing, we could call him a fucking loser for it, and look back at the good old days isntead of pretending everything is rosy and being in denial about what he did. if MJ fans were a bit more open minded and honest about things then people wouldn't have these discussions. we can all agree that thriller and off the wall were great, the videos were cool, but it all went downhill from bad, and turned to shit after then, and the tours didn't live up to the quality of the music on those two albums. when prince can thrive onstage, and his live shows can surpass his studio albums, it makes you wonder why MJ couldn't do that either. he could hire the greatest musicians on earth, the best musical director, and sound fantastic, but he sounds like shit instead, especially when you compare the live sound to the albums. i think most people making arguments for MJ haven't even seen him live, so they are making a point without experienced what they are talking about. if someone saw both MJ and prince live in concert and had an open mind about the experiences, there is no way they could possible claim MJ was a better live performer unless they really didn't like prince

if you still really think MJ is the greatest live performer ever, go see prince play live the next time, and revist this thread and give an honest update compared to the last time you saw MJ live in the flesh and who was better. i don't think you would choose MJ over prince if you were being honest

See, this is exactly my point. I have said repeatedly that I (along with other MJ fans in this thread) agree with many criticisms of MJ. I have said that I pensonally do not believe him to be the greatest ever live entertainer (whatever that means).

And yet, despite this, you continue to behave as though I (and the rest of us) belive the sun shines of his ass? Why?

begins handing out Red Lobster cheddar biscuits to calm everyone down

i'm not speaking about you directly, but in general about the posts. if people think MJ is the greatest, and they've actually seen him live to be able to make an experienced decision, i think they would change their mind after seeing prince live

fact is, it does appear that MJ can do no wrong according to some fans. for someone with a reputation of being a serial child molestor that is particularly concerning. how can you take someone seriously if they refuse to see no wrong in the light of such serious allegations?

You were responding to me directly, so I took it as such. And my point remains valid, since a lot of fans in this thread have had the same position I do.

As for the child molestation argument, first of all, it should have no bearing on his merit as an artist. Secondly, if you actually read the case, as I (and many others have done), you will find that it is perfectly possible to come to the conclusion that he is innocent, without believing that he can do no wrong. I say this both as a fan and a lawyer (albeit UK law, not US). You're entitled to take a different view, of course, but if you base your opinion purely on the fact that he was accused, it is worthless. If you have come to your conclusion via research and consideration and would like to discuss this further, I'd be happy to talk about it via PM (or in a more appropriate thread at least).

Aha, didn't see that.
And yeah, the poster's pretty brilliant.

Thanks for the reality-check and the support of a truly multi-dimensional performer.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

Someone earlier said that Mike said he didn't want to tour because he couldn't top what he'd done in the past. If so, then Mike is clearly more of a realist than most of his fans are. Mike knows he ain't what he used to be. I think if he could still sing live then he wouldn't have to compete with his earlier self. He could just focus more on vocals than dancing and it would still be great, but in a different way. But since he can only lip synch he would have to do it all with dancing and he just can't dance at that level anymore. This is obvious, but there are many fans who refuse to face it. Does anyone have the quote? (Not the Ebony one about Jackie and James dying on tour. It was a different one from a different interview)

He did say in the Ebony issue last year that he wanted to be able to enjoy what he had done. He used JB as an example of how he did not want to be touring into his later years and not getting a chance to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

I may not be a fan, but MJ has done his thing already. Since the late 1960's through the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, he has been recording and/or doing a concert/touring, so like an athlete that doesn't have the athletic drive anymore, MJ's killer instinct left a while ago. His live shows were impressive back in the day, but they did become formulaic as time moved forward.

To truly judge MJ at his live best, the "BAD" tour is a testament to his best work from the 1970's to the late 1980's. He was free of scandals and it was all about the music.He may not have been an instrumentalist, but he was a damn good showman. He had already established himself as the biggest pop star in the world and alongside Elvis & The Beatles, was an icon.

When it comes to the MJ/Prince thing:

At that point in time, Prince has building a head of steam towards laying claim as the best live performer. He already had a few tours under his belt and a several great albums (1999, Purple Rain, Sign O the times) that were critical and commercial smashes. He could do it all and was a great bandleader as well,

At that point in time in 1987, both men were great, but MJ would get the edge b/c he was the star of the era. As time moved forward, Prince (despite the name change and battle with WB) kept touring (ALOT) and was never above large stadium venues or small club settings and playing an impromptu gig. That is how he refined his skills to the point now when we see him live, Prince seems effortless in what he does.

^