Didn't we forget to mention mister Paul Mac Cartney (the real king of pop?)
No Lip-synch or boring tired choreography:

*
[Edited 9/21/08 1:40am]

Been thinking about it for a long time? Nah. If I was a bettin' man, you thought of it for as long as it took to post these vids. And do I really have to remind you that you are in a PRINCE fan site????? Need I also remind you that baiting is uncouth?????

eaglebear you can think what you like and no i dont need reminding i am in a prince fan site. Do you need reminding this is a 'non-prince' sub forum which means you we can discuss other artists besides Prince. Now dont get me wrong i love Prince he is my absolute favorite artist but i do appreciate other performers work too and i didnt feel it was wrong to post a thread about who is the greatest live performer ever..don't read the thread if you can't handle it. sheesh.

How in the world can a guy be considered the Greatest "LIVE" Performer when he doesnt perform live?

wow.

The guy has been basically over since he was like 36 years old - 99.9% tv performance was lip synced! Every major Performance was Lip Sycned. Motown 25 - 1988 Grammys - 1993 Super Bowl - 1995 Comebacks on MTV & Soul Train - 2001 CBS Concert.

When the guys mic is turned on for those tv performances for a few seconds he sounds like shit!

Also where is this "The Best Singer" bullcrap come from? He has about as much range as his sister - neither of them have songs that they hold a note or sing very high or very low for a long period of time. What songs does He have where he holds notes and shows the range of his vocal talent. They are all pro-tooled together - clipped - pasted in the studio and then outside of the studio, He Lip Syncs.

Now add we all have to think back to when George Bush's FATHER was President & Ronald Reagan was President when he actually performed on a semi-regular basis.

ElectricBlue said:

You, er, didn't read the rest of the thread, did you? I'm quite happy to admit that he's not the best ever live performer, and the fact that he hasn't sung live for many years is obviously true. To say that he never could sing at all, though, is just ridiculous. Go back and look at some of the videos posted in this thread to see why.

ElectricBlue said:

Ummm, have you never heard a Jackson 5 song? Not that I need an answer, for you to even say this and actually mean it shows the amount of credibility you have.
[Edited 9/21/08 5:35am]

People seriously think Mike doing his little moonwalk dance somehow makes him the Greatest live performer ever? Some people really need to learn about other performers.

bboy87 said:

Yup...or they simply cite his personal troubles as a reason why someone else is a greater performer, like all of that stuff is a reason to demean his many accomplishments. Whether you like him or not, you have to admit that the man has accomplished some phenonenal feats. Stuff for the history books. It's the same thing with Prince, too.

And don't tell me there ain't no so-called "kool-aid kids" out there worshiping the ground Prince walks on!
[Edited 9/21/08 9:56am]
[Edited 9/21/08 9:58am]

jn2 said:

That was so boring.

Greatest Live Performer? Anybody ever heard of this guy?...










...Sammy Davis Jr.


~ Actor (Since the statement was "Live" i'll only include Broadyway)
~ Dancer (tap, jazz, modern)
~ Singer
~ Impressionist/Comedian
~ Musician


There are very few performers that can get on a stage with a simple band (sans any elaborate stage production or props except for maybe a cigarette) and perform live in front of an audience (no vocal aids) for an extended period of time and keep them entertained in a number of ways.



Sammy Davis Jr. was one them.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

ElectricBlue said:

Wow, you're REALLY reaching this time

theAudience said:

tA, thank you for posting this. Sammy doesn't get enough love

Sammy Davis, Jr. was THE trailblazer for black entertainment to me.

bboy87 said:

Reply 105 . . . some brilliant Orger said this:

Timmy84 said:

100% correct.

My mum says Sammy was FANTASTIC. I wish I got the opportunity to see him!

namepeace said:

Aha, didn't see that.
And yeah, the poster's pretty brilliant.

Thanks for the reality-check and the support of a truly multi-dimensional performer.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

I think he gets overlooked because nowadays we value artistry more in our performers than when Sammy first came on the scene. In the context of this thread I think you're absolutely right because that's what he was--a performer, an entertainer, and he was as good and multi-talented as it got.

The people mentioned on this thread are pretty much artists who have given something new to music, and also performed. But once upon a time, there were people dedicated to just performing--Liza Minelli, Judy Garland, Gene Kelly, Sammy (and I'd also put Elvis in that category more than as a real rock musician) and they were expected not to be great artists, but to learn all the aspects of being on stage.

aalloca said:

I gots to agree with you. MJ fans are crazy and I'm a fan but at least Prince fans have a more healthy attitude toward him.

MJfans think he can do no wrong. And now they fanatics about his family too. They actually think him and his family are close and they get along, have no more problems than the average fam,

NDRU said:

Man I saw footage of Sammy playing drums and trumpet almost at the same time and fast. I was shocked at his talent. And the fact that when he dance, he almost seemed like he was gliding rather than straight tapping. That's why guys like Gregory Hines and Savion Glover took so many of his moves and modernized them. I'm glad I knew about Sammy before he died and knew OF him after his death seeing his biography. It just made me appreciate the struggles black people went through in his time and how he persevered through it all.

TheWifey said:

How does this thread demonstrate that MJ fans think he can do no wrong? Because they don't believe he has no talent? The premise was pretty dumb, I agree, but it seems to me like most fans are being pretty reasonable in this thread.

Why is it that the second people suggest that MJ has any real talent, they are labelled fanatics who believe he can do no wrong?

I think when you bring things like "oh he can't play no instruments and he mimed half his shows", someone tries to defend by saying "no you're wrong" and try to find footage to belittle that other person's statement.

But really it doesn't get anywhere.

Besides when you're dealing with Michael Jackson, you're gonna either hate him or love him, in between "oh you're confused", lol...

When people say things like "Michael is the greatest and everyone else follows" in boards like this, I know no one was expecting posters to agree or not comment, lol.

Like did the poster think that saying this would be a 100% agreement?

To me, Michael, as much of a perfectionist, is an imperfect live performer 'cause why he's a great dancer and we've known in the past that he could hold his vocal weight live (he has lip-synced in his last few tours though he was singing through it though you could hardly hear HIS vocals), he has to rely on giving people big-styled shows because he figures that's what get people on the edge of their seats.

At some point, Michael definitely compose some of the best concert performances ever but as singing proved too difficult on stage and his moves were not as swift as they were (much like James Brown and Sammy Davis in their later years), Michael felt if he couldn't be "perfect", he couldn't come on the stage. That's not really stage fright but it's more like he was "tired" of it. He even said something similar to that on his EBONY interview saying he didn't wanna go out like Jackie and James, both of them dying as they continued performing.

I do think he remains one of the greatest live performers but there have been other performers - like Prince for example - that still leave me in awe. Shit, watching old James Brown concerts have proven to be more entertaining than watching Michael's shows (though Sony keep showing the same damn concert, lol).

Timmy84 said:

These people are usually in big minority on the Org, though, and they're generally not the ones people complain about.

Usually it goes something like this:

Non-fan: "MJ is an overrated studio creation. He has an average voice, is an average dancer, has mimed his shows for the last 15-20 years, doesn't play any instruments, doesn't write his own songs.'

MJ fan: "Don't get carried away. He may not play any instruments as far as we know, but he was a fantastic dancer and vocalist in his prime, and wrote many of his own hits (and here are the videos to prove it). And we're just as pissed as you are that he insists on miming."

Non-fan: "Oh MJ fans are such fanatics. "


Just look at the last three pages of this thread.

Annika said:

That is true, I'm the "yeah he may not play instruments but he's a damn fine vocalist and writer and dancer, blah, blah, blah" type. I'm not the one to brag about his sales (WHO GIVES A SHIT!?! ) or how "well" he "plays instruments".

This is how I think the conversation should go, Annika.



Welcome to the Org, I don't think I've run into you before.

namepeace said:

It's sad that so many MJ conversations end up being bullshit, why can't we have this?

namepeace said:

I agree entirely. (Although actually it kind of stops being a conversation at that point, since we're both just rephrasing the other's point of view, hehe.)

And thanks! I've been kicking around since February or so, but I'm largely a lurker. The only time I can't hold my tongue is in certain MJ threads (see my post history ).

Timmy84 said:

When I was a teenager, I used to think MJ was overrated in comparison to Prince. But we should all get past that. MJ has been one of the greatest entertainers of the last century. A unique talent. He can be that and Prince, Sammy, James, The Boss, et cetera can all be great in their own respects. Even if we have our own idea of the pecking order for our own reasons.

Which is why many of us said the case could be made, but others would have their own to make.

namepeace said:

Amen to that, brother.

Annika said:

people aren't saying he has no talent, they are pointing out that he is extremely overrated and isn't as comparitively talented as his fame. as this is a prince site, there will be obvious comparisons drawn in which case as prince can do everything that MJ can do, and far more, he essentially wipes the floor with MJ talent wise

the fact is that MJ released a couple of really great albums, and literally went from bad to worse with his follow up albums, which along with his extremely tasteless personal issues is the reason he hasn't released anything or performed live in concert for many years

as his most notable "live" performances were memorably mainly for being dancing along to lip synching, or other special effects, to make claims that he is the greatest live performer on a fan website belonging to someone who has received non stop critical acclaim for performing live over the past 30 years, including performances this year and last, breaking world records as recently as last year with his london shows, and with his previous musicology tour being the most profitable of the year, is just ridiculous. you are comparing someone who essentially is a singer and dancer, with someone who not only sings and dances, but blows the roof off the venue with guitar playing, or kills the audience with his piano and keyboard skills. that's what it really boils down to

and to harp on about the few hit songs he actually did have a hand in writing, or his shitty sounding demos, or "credits" with playing some instruments, is just laughable compared to the thousands of songs prince wrote, recorded and produced himself, including all the hit records that prince has had in the past 30 years, all of which he wrote himself. who gives a fuck if MJ wrote we are the world or billie jean, he didn't write most of his hit records, didn't play a note on them, got someone to produce them, and a ton of other people to make the videos. MJ sang and danced, that's it. he sang good on the records and danced good in the videos, but so did britney spears and a bunch of other no talent losers who didn't write, perform or produce a note themselves either

if lipsynching and dancing onstage is something worthy of the greatest live performer ever, then what the fuck is the world coming too? prince will play for over 2 hours solid, playing his own songs, singing live, playing guitar and keyboards live, with a proper band who can jam and improvise, and then afterwards he will do it all again for another couple of hours at an aftershow concert, playing a completely different setlist. when MJ starts to do something like that, instead of whatever the fuck he is doing now, then he could be considered as a live performer, but whilst he pisses his talent away by wasting his time on this earth instead of releasing music or playing live shows, he just isn't a serious contender for such a title, especially not with his attrocious live tours of the past, so long ago that no-one can recollect them properly, and there are no official live dvds to remind anyone just how poor they were. if they were any good they would have been released on dvd long ago to cash in, instead of releasing thriller or his greatest hits for the umpteenth time with the same fucking songs on them. how many times do you need thriller, beat it and billie jean on a cd? his ratio of proper studio solo album compared to hits album is a joke

two great albums, one okay album, followed by three shit ones. sure, the last few prince albums haven't been great, but he has a ton of outstanding ones, and even the worst ones are far better than MJs post 80s output. it's no wonder MJ fans go on about billie jean so much as those were the days when he was great, but that was over 25 years ago and he's never been half as good since, that's a fact, and it's a crying shame an artist on top of their game with so much potential fucked everything up so much. the question is, why can't MJ fan's see that impartially, instead of thinking he can't do no wrong, especially defending his child molestation case and refusing to believe he could do no wrong, when he admitted during a tv interview that he slept with young boys, and denies he has plastic surgery, and all sorts of other blantant lies. how can people be so blind? if prince did a simlar thing, we could call him a fucking loser for it, and look back at the good old days isntead of pretending everything is rosy and being in denial about what he did. if MJ fans were a bit more open minded and honest about things then people wouldn't have these discussions. we can all agree that thriller and off the wall were great, the videos were cool, but it all went downhill from bad, and turned to shit after then, and the tours didn't live up to the quality of the music on those two albums. when prince can thrive onstage, and his live shows can surpass his studio albums, it makes you wonder why MJ couldn't do that either. he could hire the greatest musicians on earth, the best musical director, and sound fantastic, but he sounds like shit instead, especially when you compare the live sound to the albums. i think most people making arguments for MJ haven't even seen him live, so they are making a point without experienced what they are talking about. if someone saw both MJ and prince live in concert and had an open mind about the experiences, there is no way they could possible claim MJ was a better live performer unless they really didn't like prince

if you still really think MJ is the greatest live performer ever, go see prince play live the next time, and revist this thread and give an honest update compared to the last time you saw MJ live in the flesh and who was better. i don't think you would choose MJ over prince if you were being honest