He was like the male Diane Warren wasn't he?

And I hated The Day as well, For the Lover In You was so boring and uninspired though it grew on me that time. Jody Watley's vocals saved the song.
[Edited 9/3/08 15:19pm]

alphastreet said:

I can see the Diane Warren comparison, but Warren is strictly a songwriter, whilst Babyface definately had production skills as vital as his songwriting skills.

I love Warren though. Infact, I think Babyface produced "unbreak my heart", which was a Warren composition. Iam pretty sure she wrote it anyway.

alphastreet said:

Really? I liked "The Day". To me it was his last good CD. Everything after that was just nonsense. I hated the his CD called, "Face To Face". The only good cut on that was "What If"...The rest of it was bullshit. But, this is only my opinion.

I saw an interview he did where he said that the other members of The Deele used to laugh at him and called the songs he wanted to contribute as "waterfall type songs". They were a funk band and wanted to throwdown and, even back then, he wanted to do weak shit. Little did we know back in those days that weak shit would eventually dominate music.

daPrettyman said:

Because Solar committed broad daylight robbery against him and Deele,,,HELL, against all of their artists. I don't blame him if he wanted to avoid that period of his life.

He's a smart business man, if anything else.
[Edited 9/3/08 15:47pm]

shorttrini said:

The Day pales in comparison to Tender Lover and For the Cool in You.

I would say he just misses being considered a genius. That being said, he's an excellent songwriter.

Not sure if he is a genius, but he perfects his form in music. I think his backup vocals are gold.. and I love alot of his stuff

AlexdeParis said:

True, but those CD's are from a different time and are considered classics. "The Day", is what I consider to be the last of Babyface the songwriter as well as singer. Everything after that has been subpar. Even the things that he has written for others has just been weak.

what did you think of mj's you are my life and janet's thinkin bout my ex? I thought the latter was awesome, and the former was safe crap.

Talking of face's decline just after the mid 90's, he almost ruined "when you believe" from "The Prince of Egypt" film....

...True, I dont expect it to be as great as the movie version, but Whitneys and Mariahs version was lifeless. Even worse was the middle 8 Babyface added. That Almost ruined the song completely.


Having said that, I liked his smooth production on Michael Jacksons "on the line". Though Michael (surprisenly) wrote it alone, theres no doubt who produced it. Production is spot on, And Babyface got some good vocals outta Mike on that one. (Iam pretty sure "on the line" is a HIStory outtake actually.)

alphastreet said:

"You are my life" I think is one of those Jacko songs that most people really hate. Its the worst track off "invincible" anyway for me by a long shot.

Harlepolis said:

Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds = Lionel Ritchie

TonyVanDam said:

Nah, I still go by my Desmond child comparison. Just like Child did to rock/hair metal, Babyface took rnb, and watered it down and made it poppy/commercial. Lional never produced or wrote for anyone else as far as I know, nor did he have a sound of his own, like Child or Babyface had. Both of them gave the people they worked with the same sound they gave everybody pretty much.

vainandy said:

Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds = Lionel Ritchie

Both men were members of classic funk bands before going solo at the expense of turning their backs on The Funk.

TonyVanDam said:

Trust me,,,,,he's bad, but no THAT bad

thesexofit said:

Desmond Child still had edge though.

thesexofit said:

yeah on the line was totally amazing, but you are my life was the laziest filler song mj has ever done, it may have been nice for a newbie, but honestly that's a dude who did will you be there and he's singing something simple like THAT?

thesexofit said:

I liked it though I didn't love it, I was shocked it flopped though, I expected it to be huge, but then the fact it didn't made me realize that bodyguard wasn't going to repeat itself and the whole world was sick of shitney

speaking of which, I wonder what vainandy thinks of babyface

Harlepolis said:

An artist feeling force to turn his back on The Funk is bad news.

TonyVanDam said:

As much as I love Desmond Child, he never had edge LOL. Balls to be uber cheesy? Yes LOL.

I remember Babyface is a big fan of Phil Collins. Face even produced Phils OK cover of Cyndi's classic "true colours".

alphastreet said:

Yeah, the track is the sorta thing Babyface had been doing in his sleep for a good 5 years by 2001.

alphastreet said:

I thought that they were both, subpar. To me, the best things that he has written for others have been

1. Breathe Again
2. Water Runs Dry
3. I'm Ready
4. End of The Road.
5. Shoop, Shoop, (Exhale).
6. Not gon' cry.

Those songs were baby face at his best...The funny thing is, when he writes for other people, his own material tends to suffer.
[Edited 9/3/08 17:26pm]

shorttrini said:

No offence, but "end of the road" is awful LOL. Sure its timeless and will never die, but I still hate it.

TonyVanDam said:

C'mon, now, TVD - Calling The Deele a "Classic funk band" is putting WAAAAY too much on it, don't ya think?
[Edited 9/3/08 18:34pm]

MuthaFunka said:

The Deele's funk hits weren't as big as their pop ballads, lol. "Two Occasions" and "Shoot-Em-Up Movies" were their biggest hits plus it wasn't like 'Face became the focal point of that group like Lionel eventually became in the Commodores.

thesexofit said:

Again, it is an example of how Babyface, had the ability to get into the person's (who was going through the situation at the time), head. I know that I have felt that way, during a break-up, but really could not express it the way Face did in that song. That is why I liked him during that period.

i dont consider anybody who write songs or play instruments a genius, so my answer is no, but he's one of the best songwriters in pop music history imo.

shorttrini said:

I'll take this opportunity to repost my list of favorite Face songs:


The tracks from Soul Food (1997) are the latest songs to make the top 50.

No, he certainly is not a genius. I think that word is just thrown around way too much nowadays towards people who don't deserve the title. I really think the problem is that you have alot of artists that are very talented, labled as being a 'genius'. These artists are way too numerous to even list. But there is a real difference in being talented and being a genius. There very word genius exits precisely because there as so few of them and that they only come along once in a great while. And of course there are many kinds of ways in which one becomes a genius(science, music, etc.). Babyface is clearly not one of these. As far as his talent goes, at least in being a singer of soul ballads, he's certainly not in the same league as Otis Redding, Jackie Wilson, Sam Cooke and Marvin Gaye. Now those guys are REAL SOUL SINGERS!

PurpleJam said: