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Printablekibbles said: rock n roll was a black slang term for sex. most people know that so there shouldn't be need to argue the point. see, this is what drives black people crazy: the assumption that just because a white person said it or did it, they get to lay claim to having invented it, thought of it first, etc. next you'll be telling us about the origin of the word 'diss'. betcha think that came from whites, too, huh? Well, whites invented the English language. You agree on that?  | |
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kibbles said: Hell, a white guy INVENTED the term rock n roll. Alan Freed, a DJ. If you want to argue that point, Google it.
from google: "In 1951, Cleveland, Ohio disc jockey Alan Freed began playing rhythm and blues music for a multi-racial audience. Freed is credited with first using the phrase "rock and roll" to describe the music. However, the term had already been introduced to US audiences, particularly in the lyrics of many rhythm and blues records....Before then, the phrase "rocking and rolling", as secular black slang for dancing or sex, appeared on record for the first time in 1922 on Trixie Smith's "My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll"..." rock n roll was a black slang term for sex. most people know that so there shouldn't be need to argue the point. see, this is what drives black people crazy: the assumption that just because a white person said it or did it, they get to lay claim to having invented it, thought of it first, etc. next you'll be telling us about the origin of the word 'diss'. betcha think that came from whites, too, huh? [Edited 8/28/08 14:44pm] i was talking about in terms of "rock n roll" music, but I concede your point. No need to be condescending though. 
Still, there really WEREN'T a lot of people doing what Elvis was doing: singing country, gospel, AND blues songs. Most people were doing one or the other. | |
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kibbles said: Timmy84 said: It was something either he or his momma made up. They said the sandwich was an appetizer and it's likely he might've gotten the taste from it from his momma cooking it for him and when he moved to his home in Graceland, he told the maids he hired to cook it the way his mama did it, lol. i actually googled this. apparently he first tasted it at a restaurant in denver, and he had his cook make it up for him. i saw her demonstrate this on tv that's why i remember it so. but the damn sammich is supposed to serve eight peeps; elvis would eat the whole thing by himself. Not to mention all the drugs he was taking, then washing them down with gravy. | |
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I LIKE PORKY PIG'S VERSION OF BLUE CHRISTMAS MORE THAN ELVIS!  I'M NOT SHOUTING, JEEZ! | |
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kibbles said: Hell, a white guy INVENTED the term rock n roll. Alan Freed, a DJ. If you want to argue that point, Google it.
from google: "In 1951, Cleveland, Ohio disc jockey Alan Freed began playing rhythm and blues music for a multi-racial audience. Freed is credited with first using the phrase "rock and roll" to describe the music. However, the term had already been introduced to US audiences, particularly in the lyrics of many rhythm and blues records....Before then, the phrase "rocking and rolling", as secular black slang for dancing or sex, appeared on record for the first time in 1922 on Trixie Smith's "My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll"..." rock n roll was a black slang term for sex. most people know that so there shouldn't be need to argue the point. see, this is what drives black people crazy: the assumption that just because a white person said it or did it, they get to lay claim to having invented it, thought of it first, etc. next you'll be telling us about the origin of the word 'diss'. betcha think that came from whites, too, huh? [Edited 8/28/08 14:44pm] I believe rock & roll not only is a term for sex and dancing but it's also a cover name for rhythm and blues (not R&B) music. | |
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Hell, when you think about it,,,,most labels were brought up by white people(either critics, producers or DJs).
Like Jazz,,,,you know black people never came up with the word, its TOO negative. Hell, it used to be called Whorehouse music before it to got supposedly upgraded to ragtime and Jazz. Everybody could come up with flourishing terms,,,,but not the music. | |
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Harlepolis said: Hell, when you think about it,,,,most labels were brought up by white people(either critics, producers or DJs).
Like Jazz,,,,you know black people never came up with the word, its TOO negative. Hell, it used to be called Whorehouse music before it to got supposedly upgraded to ragtime and Jazz. Everybody could come up with flourishing terms,,,,but not the music. Yeah pretty much. Jerry Wexler labeled one genre rhythm and blues but that's better than "jungle music" or "race music". It was also called "jukebox/juke joint music" at one point. | |
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Timmy84 said: Harlepolis said: Hell, when you think about it,,,,most labels were brought up by white people(either critics, producers or DJs).
Like Jazz,,,,you know black people never came up with the word, its TOO negative. Hell, it used to be called Whorehouse music before it to got supposedly upgraded to ragtime and Jazz. Everybody could come up with flourishing terms,,,,but not the music. Yeah pretty much. Jerry Wexler labeled one genre rhythm and blues but that's better than "jungle music" or "race music". It was also called "jukebox/juke joint music" at one point. EXACTLY! They didn't call Dinah Washington & Louis Jordan the Queen and king of R&B,,,they called 'em the Queen and & King of Jukebox and you know the shit they sang was straigh up rhythm and blues. Its all a game of words to them,,,,who could come up with the catchiest phrase.[Edited 8/28/08 17:46pm] | |
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Harlepolis said: Timmy84 said: Yeah pretty much. Jerry Wexler labeled one genre rhythm and blues but that's better than "jungle music" or "race music". It was also called "jukebox/juke joint music" at one point. EXACTLY! They didn't call Dinah Washington & Louis Jordan the Queen and king of R&B,,,they called 'em the Queen and & King of Jukebox and you know the shit they sang was straigh up rhythm and blues. Its all a game of words to them,,,,who could come up with the catchiest phrase.
[Edited 8/28/08 17:46pm] So true. | |
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Timmy84 said: kibbles said: from google: "In 1951, Cleveland, Ohio disc jockey Alan Freed began playing rhythm and blues music for a multi-racial audience. Freed is credited with first using the phrase "rock and roll" to describe the music. However, the term had already been introduced to US audiences, particularly in the lyrics of many rhythm and blues records....Before then, the phrase "rocking and rolling", as secular black slang for dancing or sex, appeared on record for the first time in 1922 on Trixie Smith's "My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll"..." rock n roll was a black slang term for sex. most people know that so there shouldn't be need to argue the point. see, this is what drives black people crazy: the assumption that just because a white person said it or did it, they get to lay claim to having invented it, thought of it first, etc. next you'll be telling us about the origin of the word 'diss'. betcha think that came from whites, too, huh? [Edited 8/28/08 14:44pm] I believe rock & roll not only is a term for sex and dancing but it's also a cover name for rhythm and blues (not R&B) music. yes, that's why i highlighted that quote from the article above. it was a slang term that also applied the rather raucous, sometimes raunchy, r&b music and lyrics evolving during that time. i just wanted to point out that this term for that style of music was already out there; alan freed didn't invent it as was positeded. it came from the black culture in general and the black music subculture specifically. | |
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Harlepolis said: abierman said: 'FUCK Elvis again
 '  Well done! Thank you
Honestly, I couldn't give 2 shits who stole from who,,,this argument is the most redundant one in theOrg(next to the Prince Vs MJ threads ). Did black artists rip off others? Hell yes, I wasn't born yesterday,,,,but history will show you who was the biggest thieves in the entertainment business yesterday and today,,,,google it, look for it in books, ignore it,,,thats your say. My only argument is, his music sucks big sweaty-humid-in-summertime balls,,,,in short.
But you guys will go through fire and beyond to make people give a shit about this dude's music when alot of people here just,,,don't  And its not me who gotton defensive and angry about it,,,,look who made a whole thread over a simple reply from that "hatred thread"
It is what it is, though. Who created a thread like that? Because I know that I, the person responsible for this thread, didn't. Defensive and angry? In response to a Hate thread? Sorry, Harle. But this thread is neither. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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magnificentsynthesizer said: meow85 said: Nice try, but the dude never said that. Ever. Like I said, hate Elvis all you want, but don't go believing in bullshit just because it supports your assumptions. tha f*!k you talkin' about nice try? "Nice try", because what you said never happened. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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kibbles said: abierman said: That's very easy to say after 60+ years of rock 'n roll. Back in the day there was hardly anyone else who was doing the same thing, please tell me how he was overrated?? The out of control-stories weren't until well into the 70's, he started his career in the late 50's..... Again, I'm NO fan! but that's just the point: there were tons of people doing what he was doing - but they were black and therefore marginalized. how do you not get that? he's overrated because he can't help but be. if you and i are at a track meet, and you shoot me in the foot, go on to win the race, and get all the accolades thrust upon you, couldn't your "triumph" be seen by some as overrated at the very least? hollow and pyrrhic? undeserved? Here's the question: Who, exactly, did Elvis shoot in the foot? Who did he personally hold back? While it's true that he did benefit from a racially-biased and even oturight racist system, is he to be held directly responsible for that fact? He was a recipient of white privilege in the 50's, and the same would still be true today if he were a young man just starting out in the business. The fact that he was white and benefitted from that fact does not mean that he himself was racist, but it does mean that he was functioning within a racist society. There's a difference. But what was he supposed to do? Paint his skin darker to level the playing field? Give up singing and continue living in poverty with his family and being a broke-ass truck driver his whole life? [Edited 8/28/08 20:31pm] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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You know something?
Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly and Bill Haley (who was doing it long before Elvis) never get criticized because we all respected what they did. Actually people think these three had more talent than Elvis did. My guess is that since Jerry was too dangerous, Buddy Holly too nerdy-looking and Bill Haley too old (he was in his thirties when "Rock Around the Clock" hit #1 in 1955), they billed Elvis because, one, he was young, two, he was a "pretty boy", and three, he had an image similar to James Dean's. | |
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Timmy84 said: You know something?
Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly and Bill Haley (who was doing it long before Elvis) never get criticized because we all respected what they did. Actually people think these three had more talent than Elvis did. My guess is that since Jerry was too dangerous, Buddy Holly too nerdy-looking and Bill Haley too old (he was in his thirties when "Rock Around the Clock" hit #1 in 1955), they billed Elvis because, one, he was young, two, he was a "pretty boy", and three, he had an image similar to James Dean's.  You're probably right.
Though as far as Buddy Holly goes, even if he hadn't been all that talented he'd no doubt have been given the Death pass for his work, a la Aaliyah in Queen of the Damned. Anything can be forgiven or glossed over after an artist dies. That said, I love me some Buddy. "Dearest" is probably one of my favourite songs at the moment. Bill Haley I never got into, mostly because I still can't disaassociate Rock Around the Clock with kiddie TV shows. As for Jerry Lee? LOVE. His piano playing makes me all kinds of happy. [Edited 8/28/08 22:27pm] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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I look at the situation and debate about Elvis like this: Calling Elvis 'The King of Rock 'n' Roll' is NOT saying that he invented or was the first one to ever sing and play rock 'n' roll music. Pretty much everyone knows this as fact. What it means was that he was the first one to start the entire phenomenon that was rock 'n' roll and he was the one who brought it to the masses. It then became the most popular form of music for the younger generation of kids to listen to. He literally caused an explosion within the youth culture of America, who would became obsessed with this kind of music. He wasnt the first one to sing it or play it. But he was its biggest and most famous star to ever perform it and the one to change the entire culture in the process. He became 'The King' because of his star power and influence on music and not because he was the inventor or the originator of rock 'n' roll.
You can also look at it this way. In the eighties, a certain musician by the name of Mr. Jackson, became known and is still known as 'The King of Pop'. Now did he himself invent pop music? No he didnt. But he became its biggest and most popular star in the entire world. Does this sound familiar to another certain artist from way back? Mr. Jackson transformed pop music and made into something greater and bigger than it ever was before. That is why he was called 'The King of Pop'. He was not the inventor or the orginator of pop. But he took it to an entire new level as an artform like nobody else ever had/did. Thats why he is called the 'king of pop'. And its why Elvis is called the 'king of rock 'n' roll'. Nothing more than that. | |
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meow85 said: kibbles said: but that's just the point: there were tons of people doing what he was doing - but they were black and therefore marginalized. how do you not get that? he's overrated because he can't help but be. if you and i are at a track meet, and you shoot me in the foot, go on to win the race, and get all the accolades thrust upon you, couldn't your "triumph" be seen by some as overrated at the very least? hollow and pyrrhic? undeserved? Here's the question: Who, exactly, did Elvis shoot in the foot? Who did he personally hold back? While it's true that he did benefit from a racially-biased and even oturight racist system, is he to be held directly responsible for that fact? He was a recipient of white privilege in the 50's, and the same would still be true today if he were a young man just starting out in the business. The fact that he was white and benefitted from that fact does not mean that he himself was racist, but it does mean that he was functioning within a racist society. There's a difference. But what was he supposed to do? Paint his skin darker to level the playing field? Give up singing and continue living in poverty with his family and being a broke-ass truck driver his whole life? [Edited 8/28/08 20:31pm] exactly | |
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RodeoSchro said: This personal to me. I must explain:
In the mid-50's, Elvis was living in Houston. He met my Mom at the beach one day and became enamored with her. He asked her out, but she turned him down. She was dating the man she would eventually marry (my Dad) and didn't see a future with Elvis. He was persistent, even sending her a Christmas card (which she threw away) but in the end, my Dad beat out Elvis Presley. Now, this COULD be an homage to my Dad and his ultimate coolness (not to brag, but he was universally known as the coolest man in America), but think this through. What if my Mom HAD dated, and then married, Elvis? I wouldn't be RodeoSchro. I would be Lisa Marie Presley. Which means I would have been married to Michael Jackson. Which means I would have SLEPT with Michael Jackson. Now you understand why sometimes, I wake up screaming.  | |
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