... do you know how much measures you're allowed to copy without getting sued? I always fear my songs are unintentioneal rip offs...
does anyone know?

graecophilos said:

People who copy are businessmen..If you write songs from the heart or what is given to you by the beautiful force and energy of real music you dont even worry bout that kinda shit.
Music is the shit..copycats are businessmen and pimps.

yeah, I think so too. But let's face it. There's no original melody left. And in popmusic, only a small percentage of all possible chord changes and melodies work.
There's always someone who could claim you've stolen his music.
And, I must know over 2000 songs. It's pretty pvious for me, I steal unconsiusly.
BUT, IF I want to, let's say, write a homage (lending parts of a melody), how many bars are allowed.
Also I think most successful songwriters are business men. McCartney was, Jackson, Madonna. Stevie Wonder. They all have their own companies.
There's nothing wrong with being abusinessmann.

And so, yeah, does anyone know an answer to my question?

graecophilos said:

I tried a quick search but found nothing. Try the Copyright Office site online.
Your answer presumably is there. I have to jump in the shower . . .

From the U.S. Copyright Office website

How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission?
Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See FL 102, Fair Use, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians.

How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent. See Circular 14, Copyright Registration for Derivative Works.

mmmh, thank you for your help. But it's pretty theoretical. I'm sure I've heard that judges accept a certain number of bars you can use. They compare whether or not it's just an coincidence that some notes are exactly the same?
Also, I'm sure they try to prove whether or not you could know the song.

Anything that can be recognized as being 'lifted' from someone else's original work is a possible candidate for getting into legal troubles...
Personally I feel a Real musician/Writer can take inspiration from something without reproducing the same piece of work...
for instance lenny kravitz obviously has a zillion songs that 'borrow' elements of other people's stuff but not exactly !
If u wanted to make a song like Princes 'kiss' for example but you 'borrowed' a led zeppelin type groove (with the zep big live drum sounds)
and u put it with some lets say more distorted guitars..and then decided to slow it down to like 80 beats per min...
To most of the planet and probably even to you after a while it will start taking on a life of its own...
Creativity is the key !

yes, it's true...are you a songwiter by yourself?

24/7 365 for over 22 years..

graecophilos said:

emile57 said:

if you don't mind
this is now going
into my signature

I like that

graecophilos said:

No one could prove you never heard a song. You may have heard it in a grocery store, in traffic and never made a conscious notice of it. Subconsciously you could and not having realized you've heard it, you recreate for yourself.

SUPRMAN said:

Writing a song, including making an homage to some other song, is not commentary, criticism, news reporting, or scholarly reports. Only if it is intended for classroom use, political satire, education (as in a film documentary) or the news will it qualify under this clause.

I found this site, but I think these rules only apply to students and educators:

http://www.utsystem.edu/o...mcguid.htm

Music, Lyrics, and Music Video

Up to 10%, but in no event more than 30 seconds, of the music and lyrics from an individual musical work (or in the aggregate of extracts from an individual work), whether the musical work is embodied in copies, or audio or audiovisual works, may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as a part of a multimedia project created under Section 2. Any alterations to a musical work shall not change the basic melody or the fundamental character of the work.

It's mostly an issue if you plan to commercially distribute and make money off of it.

I'd also check with Cinnie, a regular in this forum. He probably knows. He produces music using samples, and recently uploaded a mixtape full of famous rappers who sample other extremely famous songs.

http://prince.org/msg/8/275889

Take a listen to his muxtape. There is value in referencing other cultural material, in my opinion, especially if you're mixing genres, and displacing familiar sounds. It's not all about being a copycat, IMO.

thanks heartbeatocean!!!

graecophilos said:

you're welcome

I wrote songs years ago, they never left my vault and I heard 2 christina songs and one pink song that ripped off the melody and even the way the songs rhymed that were released wayyyy after I bought them!!! How freaky is that? Does that mean I'm destined to become a pop songwriter after all or I'm just not all that?

THIS IS WHAT I MEAN! I just fear a melody I could write does exist somewhere. Or it will exist...
I feel the only way to fight against that is robbing something by yourself! Better you know the sources...