Shit Hop is a common term to mock Hip Hop culture on the org as we all know. The question that I want to raise is why is Hip Hop in its commercial form constantly attacked these days and not other music in its commercial form?

I agree that these days Hip Hop lacks the substance it once had, and that it is over marketed as a primary Arfrican American music form and we are seeing less quality, less musicians and less creativity.

However the Hip Hop that we constantly get exposed to on MTV etc doesn't represent Hip Hop as a collective, and what we see and hear on radio and TV is rap music in its commercial form. Most of the music today is watered down and commercialized and for the music lover that needs something with more substance one would have to seek good music out on its on these days.

So why does Hip Hop take the blame when just about every other thing you hear on TV and radio is watered down and polished? I don't think Hip Hop is to blame for the decline in music. Its not like major labels promote rap acts that have something to say in the first place.

Frankly when you spend your time listening to an eclectic mix of good music, you kind of get tired of seeing the term shit hop reminding you that the general public is not intune and missing out on many great artist that will never see mass marketing, its sad.

You're right. Hip hop isn't the problem. It all is

Meloh9 said:

You know how stubborn people on the org can be I don't listen to a great deal of the commercial crap that's being thrown at us, but alot of stuff that is more "underground" or rare. I get alot of my hip hop from Okayplayer

Meloh9 said:

Various other genres of nonmusic get pissed on everyday on this forum.



It was never good.



Yes, it does. Hip hop is garbage, ALL of it.



Shit hop gets the blame because it deserves it, and like I said it isn't the only genre of nonmusic that gets slammed.



Of course you don't, you still want to believe the marketing lie.



Frankly when you know what real music is, there is no better way to describe it. Actually there is, since it bothers you so much from now on I'll refer to it as "the cancer that killed music and stunted generations."



The public is definitely not intune because many support shit hop and defend it. There are no great artists in "the cancer that killed music and stunted generations" and the only sad thing is that people actually think it's an art.


Hope that answers all your questions.

Trust me...EVERY form of music that becomes too commerical/gimmicky/complicated gets mocked and chided - hair metal got it, new wave got it, prog. rock got it.

Meloh9 said:

^^^

Shut up, Dance

Cinnie said:

I was gonna say it but you did it before me

bboy87 said:

hip hop is not garbage.like all music it has its bullshit.but alot of it is great.like all forms of art,not all of it is pretty and nice.but its art.for those who think theres no real muscianship..let me bring up the roots,the beastie boys,and everlast.

well to each its own dance, but I don't see how anybody could listen to 'The Low End Theory' or Midnight Marauders and think that all hop hop is garbage but hey thats me

Cinnie said:

Shut up & dance.

"There are no great artists in "the cancer that killed music and stunted generations" and the only sad thing is that people actually think it's an art."


Quite possibly the most misinformed (I'm being nice here...lol) statement I've read on the Org in a minute...

Pretty much captures the broad stroke in which folks paint the genre around here...Shut up, dance, indeed...

Meloh9 said:

Absolutely.
I'm no expert or authority on Hip-Hop by any means but I know what I like and what sounds to good to me and 'Low End Theory' sounds good to me. So does Pubilc Enemy, Pharcyde, Roots, Beasties, De La Soul, Talib Kweli, Run-DMC, Outkast, KRS-1, Eric B and Rakim, Pete Rock and CL Smooth, and so forth and so forth. You get my point.
Hip-Hop, like any genre has good and bad stuff. Do I like the more "mainstream" stuff or what some would say is "Hot"? Not really. But then again, I generally don't listen to any forms of music that's considered "Hot", or the newest thing, or the most popular.
But that's just me.

hmmmm...?
Lets take a loop from someone that laid down a badass groove...
Lets sample it..then talk some street garbage over it...
Lets put on some gaudy jewelry ..Sit in a gaudy vehicle..
Pretend we are drug dealers or ex drug kingpens..
Lets get some fat Booty stripper bitches to dance around to this loop..
Then lets try to sell ourselves as someone Special...
Sounds like a Class act to me..

I'm a fan of old, old school hip-hop. That's the one era Andy or anyone else would NEVER call "shit hop".

Meloh9 said:

I'm one of the orgers that also takes a piss out of the sorry excuse of today's rock. AFAIC, rock & roll is more "dead" than hip-hop.

TonyVanDam said:

Rock music has indeed fallen apart. You heard about this new group from Germany called Tokio Hotel? OMG, I don't know if I can even call that rock music!

CosmicDancer said:

again what you just described is the mainstream rap and the garbage that is played on television and radio.

not all rappers sample and take loops from other places, on the album I mentioned above 'The Low End Theory' by A Tribe Called Quest they collaborated with bassist Ron Carter, Outkast mostly used original instrumentation and the samples were only used as embellishments on most albums, same for The Roots.

In fact sampling and taking loops is a past trend that is not really popular in even mainstream Hip Hop right now.

I just hate how it all gets lumped together and written off as bad, its like listening to Kenny G and ignoring Miles Davis.

Meloh9 said:

Yeah that does suck. Especially when "producers" like Puffy and 'em sample uncontrollably.

I love Outkast for the fact they DO use live instrumentation. Back in the '70s and early-'80s, that's exactly what hip-hop did (use live instrumentation).

Commercial hip hop actually gets good reviews from rock critics, that's why. You have these hip critics calling Lil Wayne a "genius!" A genius, can you believe that? Lil Wayne has zero talent, fucking zero.

Commercial pop usually gets slammed, like Natasha Bedwettingfield or James "needs to smoke" a Blunt.

2freaky4church1 said:

Timmy84 said:

I'M calling that shit hop. WHAT!

Talking over lame ass "electro" beats or over throwaway disco()songs?

No thank you.

Dance said:

Meloh9 said:

Personally, the reason that I rant against the mainstream hip hop is because #1 I was around when hip hop was first starting and I remember the QUALITY artists that came out back then. I remember the Queen Latifah's, the Tribe Called Quest, the MC Lyte's and to see how the music has deteriorated is saddening. To see an art form recognize its potential and then denegrate into a manifestation of self loathing and stereotypes is enough to drive someone mad. #2 I think there is such an OBVIOUS racist component in mainstream hip hop that goes unnoticed or not talked about. You cant tell me that the ONLY hip hop that people are willing to listen to and support is the negative and exploitative stuff. There is still TONS of positive and good hip hop out there that people will never hear and labels will NEVER support. You cant tell me that isnt rooted in racism

Not that I ever particularly "liked" hip hop/rap as a style, but at least in the early days I was able to listen to it and find some of it at least interesting if not enjoyable.

Then came the onslaught of gangsta and conscious hip hop got totally overwhelmed.

The "good" stuff got totally buried under mountains of braggadocio and mysogynistic crap.

Ok, so there are 100 pieces of shit hop for every piece of consious hip hop; why shouldn't we be able to wade through the shit to find the nuggets?

Because the vibe of the shit hop is not benign. It's full of in your face, fuck you attitude. To listen to it is to have to feel attacked by it and who wants that?

So anyone with any knd of good musical taste tunes the whole genre out which is perhaps not fair to the people making good hip hop, but nonetheless, that's what's happening.

The other important aspect to this question which is kind of sad is that there are many millions of people out there who buy the shit and the record industry runs on sales... which is not necessarily synonomous with quality.

Shallow music dominates because unfortunately, shallow consciousness is far more prevalent than enlightened consciousness.

The marketing forces behind the industry know it's far easier to sell style over substance.

For every Saul Williams there are a thousand Fiddys. That's just the way it is and good hip hop aint ever gonna be a money maker on that scale so I guess we'd better get used to it.

If you would have bet me 25 years ago that rap / hip hop wold have been around for longer than 6 months you would have won all my damn money.

I don't know if it will ever redeem itself but it sure is in a sorry state and don't get me started on what a terrible effect it's having on our culture with the young and impressionalble kids being exposed to these despicable role models.

I hate to say it but the obscure comedy, Idiocracy, from a few years ago seems more and more like a documentary as more time passes.


[Edited 8/2/08 12:56pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Good point. If rock as a whole had a pulse, hip-hop wouldn't dominate sales. But hip-hop on the whole isn't better off. When Lil' Wayne is declared the greatest rapper alive, and hip-hop magazines are glossy valentines to prison culture, you know the genre is in a creative crisis. The underground will keep it alive when Hit-Pop as We Know It falls off.

DakutiusMaximus said:

The marketing forces behind the industry know it's far easier to sell style over substance.[/quote]

When the people are less demanding, then the industry gets off easy. It's cheaper to produce hit-pop than it is to produce a musical group, IIRC. They can take kids who can barely complete sentences, much less play a lick of music, and make them stars.