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Printablelastdecember said: Revolution said: Not just concerts...try finding a black family at any sporting event...football 95% white - baseball - 95% white - basketball - 95% white - hockey - 100% white fans.
Thats funny you mention that because there was a great talk on this subject with Bob Costas and past baseball greats like Dave Winfield, Willie Mays, Henry Aaron and Bob Gibson. They discussed the change in Baseball where at one time in the 70's and 80's you had a very equal playing field for all players you had around 30% black 25-30% latino and the rest white, but now in Baseball, 8% are black about 50% latino the rest white and now a a small % japanese. Now there were alot of reasons that were tossed about, one was finanacials for going to a game, but in reality at Baseball games there are 5$ seats in some parks, in LA i heard they have $3 tickets for Tuesday games. One other argument was just that in alot of schools, programs of sports are cut, so kids arent even getting into anything, another point raised was that alot of families arent "together" many single parents on one income and going to games or concerts isnt even an option. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT, i hate agenda filled arguements, WHY IS THERE LESS BLACK KIDS IN BASEBALL IS FUCKIN EASY AS ARGUMENT, because the kids who could have played baseball would rather go and get pussy and money playing football and basketball | |
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vainandy said: Throughout history white people have gone to shows that were slow and dull.....operas, symphonies.....why should shit hop be any different?
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qvgangsta18 said: lastdecember said: Thats funny you mention that because there was a great talk on this subject with Bob Costas and past baseball greats like Dave Winfield, Willie Mays, Henry Aaron and Bob Gibson. They discussed the change in Baseball where at one time in the 70's and 80's you had a very equal playing field for all players you had around 30% black 25-30% latino and the rest white, but now in Baseball, 8% are black about 50% latino the rest white and now a a small % japanese. Now there were alot of reasons that were tossed about, one was finanacials for going to a game, but in reality at Baseball games there are 5$ seats in some parks, in LA i heard they have $3 tickets for Tuesday games. One other argument was just that in alot of schools, programs of sports are cut, so kids arent even getting into anything, another point raised was that alot of families arent "together" many single parents on one income and going to games or concerts isnt even an option. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT, i hate agenda filled arguements, WHY IS THERE LESS BLACK KIDS IN BASEBALL IS FUCKIN EASY AS ARGUMENT, because the kids who could have played baseball would rather go and get pussy and money playing football and basketball theres no agenda, and also it was pointed out in this argument that the black involvement in football was dropping too. Also its funny you mention basketball and football 2 spots that have no reward after you retire, so better make your $$ now because when you retire or get hurt which always happens in football, average career is 6 years, there is no payout program for them. and the point is if you read, why is NO ONE going to the games, even in the sports where the % of black players outwieghs all other races. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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vainandy said: Throughout history white people have gone to shows that were slow and dull.....operas, symphonies.....why should shit hop be any different?
Now now Andy, no need to get testy just because you're lacking in the stamina department...  | |
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Annika said: vainandy said: Throughout history white people have gone to shows that were slow and dull.....operas, symphonies.....why should shit hop be any different?
Now now Andy, no need to get testy just because you're lacking in the stamina department... Andy needs music he can dance to. I think you need to have stamina to do that and I believe he has it.  [Edited 8/2/08 9:22am] | |
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Timmy84 said: Annika said: Now now Andy, no need to get testy just because you're lacking in the stamina department... Andy needs music he can dance to. I think you need to have stamina to do that and I believe he has it.
[Edited 8/2/08 9:22am] I was only kidding.
And besides, I didn't mean physical stamina. Probably 'attention span' would have been more appropriate, in retrospect. Anyway, forget my lousy joke, back on topic! | |
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Annika said: Timmy84 said: Andy needs music he can dance to. I think you need to have stamina to do that and I believe he has it.
[Edited 8/2/08 9:22am] I was only kidding.
And besides, I didn't mean physical stamina. Probably 'attention span' would have been more appropriate, in retrospect. Anyway, forget my lousy joke, back on topic! Oh OK, thanks for clearing that up. | |
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vainandy said: Throughout history white people have gone to shows that were slow and dull.....operas, symphonies.....why should shit hop be any different?
wow want a box you live in. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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qvgangsta18 said: lastdecember said: Thats funny you mention that because there was a great talk on this subject with Bob Costas and past baseball greats like Dave Winfield, Willie Mays, Henry Aaron and Bob Gibson. They discussed the change in Baseball where at one time in the 70's and 80's you had a very equal playing field for all players you had around 30% black 25-30% latino and the rest white, but now in Baseball, 8% are black about 50% latino the rest white and now a a small % japanese. Now there were alot of reasons that were tossed about, one was finanacials for going to a game, but in reality at Baseball games there are 5$ seats in some parks, in LA i heard they have $3 tickets for Tuesday games. One other argument was just that in alot of schools, programs of sports are cut, so kids arent even getting into anything, another point raised was that alot of families arent "together" many single parents on one income and going to games or concerts isnt even an option. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT, i hate agenda filled arguements, WHY IS THERE LESS BLACK KIDS IN BASEBALL IS FUCKIN EASY AS ARGUMENT, because the kids who could have played baseball would rather go and get pussy and money playing football and basketball Dude, I wasn't even talking about the PLAYERS...just the fans in general. You gotta support your teams. Thanks for the laughs, arguments and overall enjoyment for the last umpteen years. It's time for me to retire from Prince.org and engage in the real world...lol. Above all, I appreciated the talent Prince. You were one of a kind. | |
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This is another example of how compartmentalization has wrecked the music industry. Even promoters buy into it. A couple of things need to change in order for the audiences to change.
Backpack rappers need better tracks. Example: I have the utmost respect for Common but he bores the shit out of me. He's also a good performer. I've seen him live a couple of times and he has a commanding stage presence. His music, on the other hand...  These guys gotta make tracks that people want to move to in order to have an effective show. Half the time, people are just standing around the stage at these "conscious concerts" and for the most part, black folks ain't havin' it.
Promoters need to mix party rappers with the conscious crowd as well. Also, add old school rappers to the ticket. People might not want to see Brotha Ali and Wise Intelligent on their own but throw in Rakim and you've got a whole new set of tickets to sell. My belief is that not everything that can be done is being done.There is also an issue of disposable income. (We ARE in a recession, you know). Concerts are a luxury that a lot of people simply can't afford. Big named artists' ticket prices are MONSTROUS these days and that can slaughter concert-goers during the Summer concert season. Some of these artists want obscene amounts of money for tickets and merchandising is straight up robbery. After the average person goes to a big concert in June, a big concert in July and a big show in August, they are wiped financially. That hurts all of the little shows (i.e, the conscious rap crowd). A lot of people will skip a show they would like to see because 1. the bill wasn't quite big enough to make them want to spend the money and 2. they either just saw or are saving for a big show they are going to see soon. The concert game is very economically divided right now and promotions suck for a lot of smaller acts. The choice is to play to the crowd you are speaking to and not make much money or play to a general audience and get that paper. Its an easy choice when you have bills. There have to be some efforts made on the parts of the artists and promoters if they want to see an audience change. Artists have to do a few more "charity gigs" (lower their fees) and promoters need to do a better job of matching artists when they set up tours. Most of the time when I see "conscious rap", its via a local one-shot production company who books the gig in a mid-sized club. Conscious rap is like acid jazz - its a niche genre/sub genre. It has to be dealt with as such in order to reach its target audience. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: This is another example of how compartmentalization has wrecked the music industry. Even promoters buy into it. A couple of things need to change in order for the audiences to change.
Backpack rappers need better tracks. Example: I have the utmost respect for Common but he bores the shit out of me. He's also a good performer. I've seen him live a couple of times and he has a commanding stage presence. His music, on the other hand... These guys gotta make tracks that people want to move to in order to have an effective show. Half the time, people are just standing around the stage at these "conscious concerts" and for the most part, black folks ain't havin' it.
Promoters need to mix party rappers with the conscious crowd as well. Also, add old school rappers to the ticket. People might not want to see Brotha Ali and Wise Intelligent on their own but throw in Rakim and you've got a whole new set of tickets to sell. My belief is that not everything that can be done is being done.There is also an issue of disposable income. (We ARE in a recession, you know). Concerts are a luxury that a lot of people simply can't afford. Big named artists' ticket prices are MONSTROUS these days and that can slaughter concert-goers during the Summer concert season. Some of these artists want obscene amounts of money for tickets and merchandising is straight up robbery. After the average person goes to a big concert in June, a big concert in July and a big show in August, they are wiped financially. That hurts all of the little shows (i.e, the conscious rap crowd). A lot of people will skip a show they would like to see because 1. the bill wasn't quite big enough to make them want to spend the money and 2. they either just saw or are saving for a big show they are going to see soon. The concert game is very economically divided right now and promotions suck for a lot of smaller acts. The choice is to play to the crowd you are speaking to and not make much money or play to a general audience and get that paper. Its an easy choice when you have bills. There have to be some efforts made on the parts of the artists and promoters if they want to see an audience change. Artists have to do a few more "charity gigs" (lower their fees) and promoters need to do a better job of matching artists when they set up tours. Most of the time when I see "conscious rap", its via a local one-shot production company who books the gig in a mid-sized club. Conscious rap is like acid jazz - its a niche genre/sub genre. It has to be dealt with as such in order to reach its target audience. I think its more about the idea of the LIVE Show is dieing off with this generation, the artists that sell albums now, cant even sell out a show when paired with other top album sellers, theres the issue right there. Costs are an issue to some extent, but the irony is that the artists charging the big bucks sell out, and i dont think that effects what else people want to go see. I just think there is a HUGE gap in the genration of people who go to shows and have no interest in the live show, and its got very little to do with a show or artist being able to get you moving. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: I think its more about the idea of the LIVE Show is dieing off with this generation, the artists that sell albums now, cant even sell out a show when paired with other top album sellers, theres the issue right there. Costs are an issue to some extent, but the irony is that the artists charging the big bucks sell out, and i don't think that effects what else people want to go see. I just think there is a HUGE gap in the generation of people who go to shows and have no interest in the live show, and its got very little to do with a show or artist being able to get you moving. Hence my mentioning pairing some of the old school rap acts with some of the newer acts. Its a complicated issue and those in a position to help aren't doing it because its a financial risk for them. People still go to concerts. If you put together the right combination of artists at an affordable price, people will go to the show. The problem is everyone is thinking like a damn corporation these days and its KILLING THE MARKET. Take Neo-Soul. Picture this ticket - (local opening act) + Martin Luther, Van Hunt, Maxwell. Tickets - $20-40. "Souled out" show. If the artists and the promoters got together and made something like that happen, it would be a great tour. The problem is everyone thinks about their own pockets instead of the community aspects. A show like that would do more than just sell tickets. It would generate the interest in concert-going as well and probably inspire a few young musicians to try to put together shows. The reason our generation went to more shows is because more shows had the appeal to make us want to go. For instance - S.O.S. Band + Zapp + The Time + The GAP Band. You liked something by at least two of those artists and when they came, you went to see the artists that you liked. Most of these shows now are done as individual shows with the artists playing small club venues or big shows with mis-matched artists. Labels would use their own artists to put the show together even though the shows cross genres to a degree that made the concerts nullified. People want to see like artists at a concert. A company like Def Jam would put someone like Chrisette Michele out on the road with The Dream and Ne-Yo because they are her label mates rather than with artists like Lina and Angie Stone and Jill Scott who would be more appealing as co-billers on a show ticket; all because they can keep more money in-house. These types of decisions are also killing the concert market. [Edited 8/3/08 10:33am] | |
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BlaqueKnight said: This is another example of how compartmentalization has wrecked the music industry. Even promoters buy into it. A couple of things need to change in order for the audiences to change.
Backpack rappers need better tracks. Example: I have the utmost respect for Common but he bores the shit out of me. He's also a good performer. I've seen him live a couple of times and he has a commanding stage presence. His music, on the other hand... These guys gotta make tracks that people want to move to in order to have an effective show. Half the time, people are just standing around the stage at these "conscious concerts" and for the most part, black folks ain't havin' it.
Promoters need to mix party rappers with the conscious crowd as well. Also, add old school rappers to the ticket. People might not want to see Brotha Ali and Wise Intelligent on their own but throw in Rakim and you've got a whole new set of tickets to sell. My belief is that not everything that can be done is being done.There is also an issue of disposable income. (We ARE in a recession, you know). Concerts are a luxury that a lot of people simply can't afford. Big named artists' ticket prices are MONSTROUS these days and that can slaughter concert-goers during the Summer concert season. Some of these artists want obscene amounts of money for tickets and merchandising is straight up robbery. After the average person goes to a big concert in June, a big concert in July and a big show in August, they are wiped financially. That hurts all of the little shows (i.e, the conscious rap crowd). A lot of people will skip a show they would like to see because 1. the bill wasn't quite big enough to make them want to spend the money and 2. they either just saw or are saving for a big show they are going to see soon. The concert game is very economically divided right now and promotions suck for a lot of smaller acts. The choice is to play to the crowd you are speaking to and not make much money or play to a general audience and get that paper. Its an easy choice when you have bills. There have to be some efforts made on the parts of the artists and promoters if they want to see an audience change. Artists have to do a few more "charity gigs" (lower their fees) and promoters need to do a better job of matching artists when they set up tours. Most of the time when I see "conscious rap", its via a local one-shot production company who books the gig in a mid-sized club. Conscious rap is like acid jazz - its a niche genre/sub genre. It has to be dealt with as such in order to reach its target audience. Fair points. As for Common, his earlier tracks with No I.D. ("I Used To Love H.E.R.," "Communism") were bangers. I dig the "backpack" style because it has jazzier beats and hooks, but you're right, they don't get the party moving, they get heads nodding. Then again, acts like De La Soul bring some real bangers to the table as well ("Much More"). Ditto J Dilla (not really a conscious rapper in the pure sense, but a hip-hop purist). Production can be a mixed bag, but it's not as bad on the backpack front as it might appear. As for supporting the shows, I do remember when hip-hop shows were like "revues," where you could see a number of different acts on one bill. Like in '91, when PE went out with A Tribe Called Quest, Leaders of The New School, Naughty By Nature and The Geto Boys. There were 2 or 3 tours like that every year, so that conscious rappers and gangsta rappers and old school party rappers would get to the same audience. And I think that was a big part of the genre's diversity in what many people call its heyday (mid-80's to mid-90's). Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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Common got some new songs coming soon with Pharrell and the one I heard sounded like a reference to Soul Sonic Force.
So there ya go. | |
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Cinnie said: Common got some new songs coming soon with Pharrell and the one I heard sounded like a reference to Soul Sonic Force.
So there ya go. I was going to mention that. Common wants to put out a club record. The tracks that did leak received bad feedback and folks didn't like them so they push the album back. | |
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