MARVIN GAYE went through some shit and had to find his way back to making music again before he died and MARVIN GAYE is FIVE times the artist that Prince will EVER BE.


You're waay off but it's a matter of opinion.

I don't think Marvin is 5x the artist prince is. In fact, I think it's the other way around. What I think we both agree on is that Marvin and Prince are of one league. D is not.

midnightmover said:

Yeah, OK. The only reason "Cruisin'" stood out is because it was the second single. "When We Get By," "Me and Those Dreaming Eyes of Mine," "Higher," etc. -- my copy of the album has plenty of melodies.


Right, the guy who wrote "Mercy Mercy Me (The Ecology)," "Come Get to This," "You Sure Love to Ball," "Got to Give It Up," "Trouble Man," "When Did You Stop Loving Me...," and "Praise" (among others) by himself wasn't a great songwriter.

eaglebear4839 said:

Because it also collects the songs he recorded that were not on those two albums (mostly soundtrack cuts/covers). One of my favorite D'Angelo songs is "I Found My Smile Again" from Space Jam.

Ronny said:

Um, NO.
PRINCE will NEVER be the artist that Marvin Gaye was.

NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. SORRY.

ButterscotchPimp said:

-----
Sorry I love Marvin but, Marv did not invent a genre of music. Even if you hated the Minn sound it was P's sound. Marv was forced to stick to the Motown formula. He did what he could to work around it and I think he was a great songwriter but P surpassed Marvin with "Sign of The Times"

Meloh9 said:

-----
" In prince's day an artist may have had to release a lot of albums to create a following and a buzz,"

P did not have to follow up every year with his own CDs and side projects. I honestly think he did it because he had the music in his head and he had to get it out. Remember it was Warners that wanted him to slow down because artist were not going around over staturating the market with music the way P was back in the day.

Dangelo brought the comparisons on himself. I do not expect him to be Prince but do not hold yourself out to be some sort of musical god and then whine because you cannot be productive and I do not want to hear a guy complaining about woman fawning over his body and not his music when his shirt is off all the time.
In addtion, I will take a Prince cd each year for a deccade that has 4 good cuts than I guy who in my opinion only has put out one really good cd in a decade.
[Edited 7/30/08 2:14am]

laurarichardson said:

If you go back and read what I wrote I said pre 1999 prince, Warners tried to slow Prince's output after Purple Rains success, specifically Crystal Ball era on up, he was constantly writing and being told he couldn't. We know Prince is highly prolific, he would have had a career similar to Zappa's if it were up to him.

My point is these days an artist doesn't have to release a bundle of records, hell the album format is not even in demand right and we know that cds dont sell so a full length record wouldn't make a difference these days probably anyway, even if D'angelo decided to release eight albums this year. The times are changing
[Edited 7/29/08 19:44pm]
[Edited 7/29/08 19:45pm]

Prince composed, wrote, produced, sang, and performed all of his hits..

His best work was alone, with a few guitars solos and quips from bandmates.


Marvin was political and all.. Love him as an artist, He's not the talent Prince is. Could've been? Most definitely.

Smokey Robinson and Ashford & Simpsson wrote alot of his earlier hits and duets in the 60s.

Motown artists seemed to jump on The Soul Power/Conscience, Funk, and Blaxploitation Soundtrack bandwagons in the early 70's after Curtis and others originated it. (Just like what happen in The Dream Girls film)

I agree... Prince is living music.

It's really not all about the fame, or some special concept all of the time.
Instrumental CDs. Production of others.

He even produces music that he knows goes far above what the bandwagoners want..

No chance these brothers could, or can catch him. Sorry. I like all of them.

He is a child prodigy/Tiger Woods of Music.

JB
Stevie
Prince

..Locked.
[Edited 7/30/08 7:08am]
[Edited 7/30/08 7:09am]

Neo Soul was crushed by folks trying to be these composites of Stevies, Al Greens, Princes, Curtis. (Ladies) Chaka,

A good number of these fellows and gals were/are siging out of their true vocal ranges, or just singing in cartoon voices (like an Edie Murphy or Jamie Foxx immitation of famous singers of the past).

You get tired of riffs and chords that were so similar to Stevie's, or Earth Wind & Fire's hit songs.. Or singers laying on the floor next to an "Off The Wall" Vinyl LP in their videos... It became so phony.

As young thangs grew up after the 90's, they got hip to it.
[Edited 7/30/08 7:10am]

AlexdeParis said:

Yeah,it's ridiculous to suggest that Marvin wasn't a great songwriter on his own.

Meloh9 said:

-----
The times are changing now today that has noting to do with the last decade. It is ridiculous that dude has only put out two CD in a decade and not to many artist are going to be able to come back even in today's market with that track record. I wish him luck but it does not look good.

In addition, he was never a crossover artist and unfortunatly the shelf life for a black male RnB artist is short and disappearing act only makes it harder.

AlexdeParis said:

Of those seven Marvin songs you mentioned only two are exceptional. There is absolutely nothing special about tracks like "Come Get To This" or "You Sure Love To Ball". Most people would agree that Marvin's best songs are the likes of "I Heard It Through The Grapevine" (which Marvin didn't write), "Let's Get It On" (melody and title written by Ed Townsend), "What's Going On" (melody written by Rene Benson and lyrics co written by Al Cleveland), "Sexual Healing" (co written with O Brown and David Ritz). Those songs are far superior to dreck like "You Sure Love To Ball". I could go on, but as it happens I'm planning to start a thread on this very subject as soon as I get the time, so I'll save it for then. See you there.

Linn4days said:

Correct. I love Marvin, but most of his best work has to be credited to other people just as much as to him. And you're right, most of his '60s songs were written and produced entirely by others. If you add up the truly great (as opposed to good) songs Marvin wrote by himself you have a grand total of two. P has well over 50. No comparison really.

Some of u guys are funny as hell.....comparing Marvin Gaye 2 Prince.
Ohhh Larwd.....

SoulAlive said:

It's more than ridiculous, it's ludicrous.
NOT to mention, you want to talk about Marvin not having his own sound? The man that CHANGED MOTOWN? THE ENTIRE LABEL and the sound of soul music in the 70's? What's Going On changed Motown. You can tell what Motown sounded like before WGO and after WGO. Without WGO you'd have no Stevie Wonder doing Innervisions, no Temps doing Psychedelic Shack, etc etc etc. Are you freaking kidding me?

Some of ya'll kool-aid kids KILL me with your general lack of knowledge of music in general and the ridiculous assumption that P is the "greatest artist of all time". Freaking retarded.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Let's do a test. Type out a list of the great (not good, but great) songs that Marvin wrote by himself, then we'll see how that compares to a list of Prince's greatest self penned tunes. The first thing you'll notice is that none of Marvin's most best loved tracks we'll be on his list because he either didn't write them at all or else he just put lyrics to someone else's melody. If you want to place Marvin on an equal footing with Prince as a songwriter these are facts you will have to completely ignore. Having been on the org for a year now, I know that there are many shameless people around here who have no problem dodging inconvenient truths, so I look forward to seeing how it's done here.

Now don't get me wrong, Marvin was great, but despite his posthumous status as god and martyr for mankind, his achievements were mostly collaborative. That is a fact Marvin himself always acknowledged. If his worshippers want to ignore it, then that says more about them than anything else.

midnightmover said:

Don't start using LOGIC around here, it just won't fly.

I guess D'Angelos' problem is that he used his looks heavily to market himself.That's a fact and it's cool - just the problem with it is that when your looks are fading the whole concept is backfiring at you.Because if you've been marketed as the neosoul genius (that he is) who just oh so coincidentally "happens" to also be a handsome muscular guy with silky lips who rips his shirt off on stage every night then - then you're in trouble when this marketing tool of good looks breaks away.

I honestly am convinced that one reason why it has taken D' so long to come back is that he had no idea how the heck to make a comeback while being fat and all.Which probably led to more depression, more weight gain etc.

Yeah, we all know that it should be about the music and of course it is, but don't tell me looks weren't a major factor in building up his career.

And it's not like he didn't have a say in this strategy.

.
[Edited 7/30/08 9:21am]

beatz01 said:

I don't buy this. D'Angelo had writers block for years after his first album too. That's why Voodoo took so long to come out. He wasn't fat then. I think the problem is far deeper than just a weight problem.

midnightmover said:

I don't buy the weight thing either. Heck he was a little chunky when he first came out and people dug him... for the music.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

Just a crack head excuse.

Prince had only 8 yrs(1980 - 1988) of relevant music, and those eight yrs he was still spotty at best,

Marvin Gaye had a career of over 20yrs where he was relevant in music, and still making hot music.

Prince needed Beyonce to get him back in the spotlight, Marvin Gaye created Sexual Healing

Prince hasn't made a record sing 1987 that anybody wants to hear or listen too.

Most human beings dont care how the music is made, just the final product.

Prince's final product has been lackluster 2 : 1 ratio of horrible songs to good songs,

qvgangsta18 said:

Are u trying out 4 America's next top comedian? If so.....u got my vote.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Good Lord, why do you get all twisted when people use prince in an example that is positive? its hilarious how people here get so f*cked up inside over it. if it bothers you that much maybe you should stay away from a "Prince" fansite.

other than that, this is a pretty good discussion.

SCNDLS said:

and where did you learn that quote my friend.

midnightmover said:

You're funny. FTR, "best" isn't the same as "most popular." If I were to name Marvin's 20 best songs, "Sexual Healing" wouldn't make the list. OTOH, "Come Get to This" certainly would. Come to think of it, I have no idea which of those songs I listed you'd consider exceptional. You seem to be hung up on success, which would lead me to pick "Mercy Mercy Me" and "Got to Give It Up" (good choices, of course), but that would leave out, say, "When Did You..." and "Trouble Man."

Regardless, I think it's silly to underrate a songwriter who chooses to collaborate. Is Lamont Dozier less of a songwriter because his biggest hits were written as a part of H-D-H? What about Valerie Simpson? Kenny Gamble? Richard Rodgers?

Finally, notice how little success Marvin's collaborators had without him. Name Obie Benson's second-best co-composition. Did Anna Gordy Gaye and David Ritz co-write any song of note without him?

qvgangsta18 said:

-----
If you think those 8 years were spotty I want to know what you are smoking.

You got "Dirty Mind", "1999" "Purple Rain" and Sign Of The Times.
4 CD that turn up on everybody best list year after year and PR was back on the charts a few years ago. I will not even bother to list the numerous songs he wrote for other artist in those eight years. P has sold about 50 million records the last time I saw a list and his lackuster songs have been covered by loads of other artist.
I would say his accompolishment far out weights Marvin and P has actually had songs sell and do resonably well since 1987.

AlexdeParis said:

Firstly, I NEVER confuse commercial success with artistic excellence, but in Marvin's case it just so happens that his most popular songs are also his best. I'm sorry, but no one in their right mind would say that "Come Get To This" is anywhere near as good a song as a universally acknowledged masterpiece like "Let's Get It On". Only geeks who take pride in exalting the obscure and snubbing the obvious would try and say that.

You mentioned "You Sure Love To Ball". Again, no serious person would put that song (which is a total snoozefest) in the same league as "What's Going On". You mentioned "Got To Give It Up". That's a nice enough song, but let's be serious. Is it really a great song? Sorry, but I don't think so. It's nice, but it can't hold a candle to "I Heard It Through The Grapevine", or even "Ain't That Peculiar" (which Smokey wrote for him).

Now Marvin did write "Mercy, Mercy Me" and "Trouble Man" which are both great (although TM doesn't have much of a melody). But beyond that I am struggling to name the great songs that Marvin wrote himself. It's easy to see why he was so jealous of Stevie. Not only did it come much easier to Steve, but Steve was a genius with melody and a remarkable lyricist. In both those senses he towered over Marvin who's best melodies were ALWAYS written by other people, and who's lyrics, while generally good, were not as elevated as Steve's.

Now if you just wait until the weekend I'll be doing a thread on this subject. Be sure to tune in.
[Edited 8/1/08 5:44am]

qvgangsta18 said:

After Let's Get It On in 1973 Marvin only released four albums in his life and all of them were universally slammed by the critics and they were slammed with good reason. They sucked. They were self indulgent, tuneless drivel that disappointed his fans and bored everyone else. His comeback album Midnight Love sold on the back of "Sexual Healing" but it was an AWFUL and EMBARRASSING album that no one I've ever met has a good word to say for. His '60s output was mostly written and produced by others, so basically Marvin's claim to greatness rests on What's Going On, the first half of Let's Get It On and about four or five other songs scattered here and there. That is a very slim body of great work compared to Prince's. Very slim indeed, and as I've said those albums were the product of many people's work, not just Marvin's.

It should be noted for instance that the I Want You album was mostly written and recorded by Leon Ware long before Marvin ever heard it. All he did was record vocals and write lyrics for a few tracks. Again this is an inconvenient fact that the worshippers will try and sweep under the carpet, but it's a fact nonetheless.

And I'll leave the last word on the subject to Marvin himself who had this to say when he was asked how he created What's Going On. He said.... "What you're really asking me there is "Am I really a genius or am I a fraud?" Alas, I fear I am probably a fraud". His words, not mine.

midnightmover said:

And that's where this conversation comes to an end.
Because "Here, My Dear" is better than EVERYTHING PRINCE EVER DID.
Fuck what the critics had to say at the time.
And you're surely not using what the critics had to say about someone's music as a measuring stick, are you? Because then 90% of Prince's work according to the critics is GARBAGE.

I'm done with this. I'm not even sure we're the same species.