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I don't agree with the whole Lauryn is a fraud thing.
Just think of it this way; If her producers were so great in and of themselves, how come they haven't done anything as good as Miseducation since? That's because, though Lauryn probably isn't the SOLE creative center behind the work, she definitely was THE central creative force behind the work. Collaboration is crucial it seems. They talk about it in the article on D. He got so much pressure it seems to be this great artist that he felt he had to do all of it himself the next time around so people wouldn't be throwing this fraud tag at him. I read Lauryn went through some bizarre (surprise surprise) hoops during the recording sessions to her follow-up to make sure she did everything herself. My take: If you ain't Prince it's crazy to do it all yourself. Oh snap! Wait a minute. Prince's most interesting work blossomed from collaborations with his band. I still feel it's telling that he TOO is less interesting without it. |
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CynicKill said: I don't agree with the whole Lauryn is a fraud thing.
Just think of it this way; If her producers were so great in and of themselves, how come they haven't done anything as good as Miseducation since? That's because, though Lauryn probably isn't the SOLE creative center behind the work, she definitely was THE central creative force behind the work. Collaboration is crucial it seems. They talk about it in the article on D. He got so much pressure it seems to be this great artist that he felt he had to do all of it himself the next time around so people wouldn't be throwing this fraud tag at him. I read Lauryn went through some bizarre (surprise surprise) hoops during the recording sessions to her follow-up to make sure she did everything herself. My take: If you ain't Prince it's crazy to do it all yourself. Oh snap! Wait a minute. Prince's most interesting work blossomed from collaborations with his band. I still feel it's telling that he TOO is less interesting without it. "I still feel it's telling that he TOO is less interesting without it." That is your opinion  | |
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laurarichardson said: CynicKill said: I don't agree with the whole Lauryn is a fraud thing.
Just think of it this way; If her producers were so great in and of themselves, how come they haven't done anything as good as Miseducation since? That's because, though Lauryn probably isn't the SOLE creative center behind the work, she definitely was THE central creative force behind the work. Collaboration is crucial it seems. They talk about it in the article on D. He got so much pressure it seems to be this great artist that he felt he had to do all of it himself the next time around so people wouldn't be throwing this fraud tag at him. I read Lauryn went through some bizarre (surprise surprise) hoops during the recording sessions to her follow-up to make sure she did everything herself. My take: If you ain't Prince it's crazy to do it all yourself. Oh snap! Wait a minute. Prince's most interesting work blossomed from collaborations with his band. I still feel it's telling that he TOO is less interesting without it. "I still feel it's telling that he TOO is less interesting without it." That is your opinion Is there an arguement here? I said I "feel". |
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The worst thing he can do is have articles about being tortured printed about him.
Best thing he can do is post tracks that are solid, and continue having articles about him being in the studio. Once the album is done and ready with scheduled release date he can do the whole "dateline nbc" tear jerker interview about his pains and how he overcame them, etc. Until then. shut up and record.. Music is the best... | |
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Interesting to see so many people attribute D's experience to a neo-soul phenomenon.
If memory serves, the same "pressure" serves as much of the basis of most of the rock bands' issues... at least on "Behind the Music." 
It's all about remaining a fresh product for the marketplace, dealing with a ton of money & fame and (quite often) substance abuse. | |
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SoulAlive said: PurpleCharm said: Can someone explain this whole deal about Lauren Hill being exposed as a fraud?
When 'Miseducation' was released,Lauryn was listed as the album's producer and she was given credit for producing it herself.Some other producers sued her,claiming they actually did most of the work.They apparently won the case. 
Why is ya'll talkin' about meeeee!? "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: SoulAlive said: When 'Miseducation' was released,Lauryn was listed as the album's producer and she was given credit for producing it herself.Some other producers sued her,claiming they actually did most of the work.They apparently won the case.
Why is ya'll talkin' about meeeee!? 
Look, she's a bit touched, leave Lauryn and those three chords she knows alooooone. Really, I'd take a thousand Lauryns over any of the completely talentless tramps they're dumping on the public. | |
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RipHer2Shreds said: guitarslinger44 said: It's the armchair psychologist trip. It's someone who has no idea telling someone else how to do their job. I'm sure that you'd be pissed off if D'Angelo came to your job and started telling YOU what to do and how to do it. Just because someone buys a record doesn't mean they really understand the person making it.  But he'd have to spend some time at my job, learn what I do, how I do it, who I report to in order to know what to do. I'll I gotta do is put on his record, and if it sounds whack, I'd say (to the record), "Man, this is whack." I'm not actually telling him anything. I just won't be giving him any of my money. You don't have to be a musician to know good or bad music.
But I'm just speaking generally and sort of playing devil's advocate because I don't agree with the logic as it applies to anyone (not just D'Angelo). I think maybe we got our wires crossed a bit. I wasn't talking about good vs. bad music, I was talking about this whole, "You're a musician, you do what you love, your job's easy, whaddya mean PRESSURE?, shut the fuck up and write another hit" kind of mentality that's going on here. It tells me that there are people who don't have any idea what it's like to be creative, don't care about the artists making the music so far as they put out another album for them to consume. 
I agree that you don't have to be a musician to know good or bad music. Honestly, I find that sometimes musicians get fooled easier than non-musicians. | |
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I haven't posted anything in a long time. ..but I can't help but jump in here.
Can you imagine Prince being so upset at something that he could not record/and release music? Can you imagine him sitting around eating chips all day, gainin 50lbs? It boils down to work ethic...Prince is old school, D'Angelo and gang are no school:) to share the opinion of an insider, who shall remain nameless - D'Angelo, Maxwell etc just don't have the discipline that Prince has always had. Where they may give up after a few hours, Prince will go for days to realize an idea. Now, add that to the undeniable fact that Prince has more great ideas in the Mountains 12" extended version than D'Angelo has shown in his entire career and you realize how silly this topic of comparing P to D is. D'Angelo is nice. Prince is great. | |
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Ronny said: I haven't posted anything in a long time. ..but I can't help but jump in here.
Can you imagine Prince being so upset at something that he could not record/and release music? Can you imagine him sitting around eating chips all day, gainin 50lbs? It boils down to work ethic...Prince is old school, D'Angelo and gang are no school:) to share the opinion of an insider, who shall remain nameless - D'Angelo, Maxwell etc just don't have the discipline that Prince has always had. Where they may give up after a few hours, Prince will go for days to realize an idea. Now, add that to the undeniable fact that Prince has more great ideas in the Mountains 12" extended version than D'Angelo has shown in his entire career and you realize how silly this topic of comparing P to D is. D'Angelo is nice. Prince is great. ----- "Prince is old school, D'Angelo and gang are no school:) " Cosign a few years ago when D'Angelo was talking smack and people were hyping him up I said that he would have to put the work in to be a P's level. We know see almost a decade later that he does not have the work ethic to get a P's level. | |
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CynicKill said: I don't agree with the whole Lauryn is a fraud thing.
Just think of it this way; If her producers were so great in and of themselves, how come they haven't done anything as good as Miseducation since? That's because, though Lauryn probably isn't the SOLE creative center behind the work, she definitely was THE central creative force behind the work. Collaboration is crucial it seems. They talk about it in the article on D. He got so much pressure it seems to be this great artist that he felt he had to do all of it himself the next time around so people wouldn't be throwing this fraud tag at him. I read Lauryn went through some bizarre (surprise surprise) hoops during the recording sessions to her follow-up to make sure she did everything herself. My take: If you ain't Prince it's crazy to do it all yourself. Oh snap! Wait a minute. Prince's most interesting work blossomed from collaborations with his band. I still feel it's telling that he TOO is less interesting without it. I agree,Lauryn is extremely talented on her own.She may not have produced the whole album herself,but she obviously brought alot to the table.I don't see her as being a puppet who just took orders and did what the producers told her to do.When you listen to that CD,you can tell that she is baring her heart and soul...she's telling her story and doing alot of soul-searching.Not to take away anything from her collaborators,but she is undeniably talented.What's sad is that,the world may not get to hear what she is truly capable of.'Miseducation' was just the beginning. [Edited 7/28/08 6:42am] | |
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Ronny said: I haven't posted anything in a long time. ..but I can't help but jump in here.
Can you imagine Prince being so upset at something that he could not record/and release music? Can you imagine him sitting around eating chips all day, gainin 50lbs? It boils down to work ethic...Prince is old school, D'Angelo and gang are no school:) to share the opinion of an insider, who shall remain nameless - D'Angelo, Maxwell etc just don't have the discipline that Prince has always had. Where they may give up after a few hours, Prince will go for days to realize an idea. Now, add that to the undeniable fact that Prince has more great ideas in the Mountains 12" extended version than D'Angelo has shown in his entire career and you realize how silly this topic of comparing P to D is. D'Angelo is nice. Prince is great. AGAIN, i call BULLSHIT. Why is it that you people have to use Prince as the "universal standard" by which ALL artists should be judged? MARVIN GAYE went through some shit and had to find his way back to making music again before he died and MARVIN GAYE is FIVE times the artist that Prince will EVER BE. Like Adam already said, and i tried to say earlier in this thread i think there's a lot of "arm chair quarterbacking" going on in this thread where people that have never written, played or produced music seem to think it's easy or that your life doesn't affect your output, or worse seem to think that because apparently Prince doesn't seem to have a problem with it then no one else should. But this is the Org, so i guess i shouldn't be surprised. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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blackguitaristz said: popgodazipa said: Let me tell you guys something. All of these so called neo soul guys go through this dramatic..I need to find myself before I can make more music bullshit! It's like they are never comfortable with their success and the pressure of reproducing whatever sound got them into the dance..and they go Lauren Hill and Maxwell on us..screw them and all their deepness. Hey it's your fucking job to make music and yeah it can be a little stressful when you are at work...that doesn't stop tables from getting bused, food being served, and babies being delivered....Give me a freaking break!
Damn...HELLA post! I agree 100%. That's the MAJOR difference between cats from the 70's and these "boys" today. Van Hunt runs his mouth entirely too much about motherfuckers not "understanding" him and shit. Fuck people not "understanding" you. I don't want folks "understanding" me. If you're a real artist, your music is ALL folks NEED to understand. Period. And if they can't get with that, then fuck em'. Move on to the next joint. I like D myself but I hate that all this press keeps coming out about what he ISN'T doing. If his album isn't ready, then stay the fuck out of the media UNTILL your shit IS ready. Damn..Maxwell was doing the same shit. Nobody gives a fuck WHY your shit isn't out. When your album is ready to drop, everybody will know about it. You don't have to tell the media. How is D going to crumble under the pressure? Ni%#a, what pressure?! " Oh player...I'm so fucked up cuz women want me to strip every night"...Are u serious? Can u see Marvin or Teddy flipping out, not recording because of that shit? Man...whatever. None of these cats have to worry about carrying no torch to save anything. Ain't nobody looking to these cats in that light. A cat put out 2 albums and it's the end of the world for them. Their lucky their in THESE times, cuz if they were in the 70's.....they wouldn't be able to pull this shit here.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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ButterscotchPimp said: Ronny said: I haven't posted anything in a long time. ..but I can't help but jump in here.
Can you imagine Prince being so upset at something that he could not record/and release music? Can you imagine him sitting around eating chips all day, gainin 50lbs? It boils down to work ethic...Prince is old school, D'Angelo and gang are no school:) to share the opinion of an insider, who shall remain nameless - D'Angelo, Maxwell etc just don't have the discipline that Prince has always had. Where they may give up after a few hours, Prince will go for days to realize an idea. Now, add that to the undeniable fact that Prince has more great ideas in the Mountains 12" extended version than D'Angelo has shown in his entire career and you realize how silly this topic of comparing P to D is. D'Angelo is nice. Prince is great. AGAIN, i call BULLSHIT. Why is it that you people have to use Prince as the "universal standard" by which ALL artists should be judged? MARVIN GAYE went through some shit and had to find his way back to making music again before he died and MARVIN GAYE is FIVE times the artist that Prince will EVER BE. Like Adam already said, and i tried to say earlier in this thread i think there's a lot of "arm chair quarterbacking" going on in this thread where people that have never written, played or produced music seem to think it's easy or that your life doesn't affect your output, or worse seem to think that because apparently Prince doesn't seem to have a problem with it then no one else should. But this is the Org, so i guess i shouldn't be surprised. ----- " Prince as the "universal standard" by which ALL artists should be judged?" He is not the standard but he has work ethic out the ass. In fact a lot of ordinary people have great work ethics. You can't let life stop you from doing your thing. I think that is all we are trying to say. | |
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blackguitaristz said: popgodazipa said: Let me tell you guys something. All of these so called neo soul guys go through this dramatic..I need to find myself before I can make more music bullshit! It's like they are never comfortable with their success and the pressure of reproducing whatever sound got them into the dance..and they go Lauren Hill and Maxwell on us..screw them and all their deepness. Hey it's your fucking job to make music and yeah it can be a little stressful when you are at work...that doesn't stop tables from getting bused, food being served, and babies being delivered....Give me a freaking break!
Damn...HELLA post! I agree 100%. That's the MAJOR difference between cats from the 70's and these "boys" today. Van Hunt runs his mouth entirely too much about motherfuckers not "understanding" him and shit. Fuck people not "understanding" you. I don't want folks "understanding" me. If you're a real artist, your music is ALL folks NEED to understand. Period. And if they can't get with that, then fuck em'. Move on to the next joint. I like D myself but I hate that all this press keeps coming out about what he ISN'T doing. If his album isn't ready, then stay the fuck out of the media UNTILL your shit IS ready. Damn..Maxwell was doing the same shit. Nobody gives a fuck WHY your shit isn't out. When your album is ready to drop, everybody will know about it. You don't have to tell the media. How is D going to crumble under the pressure? Ni%#a, what pressure?! " Oh player...I'm so fucked up cuz women want me to strip every night"...Are u serious? Can u see Marvin or Teddy flipping out, not recording because of that shit? Man...whatever. None of these cats have to worry about carrying no torch to save anything. Ain't nobody looking to these cats in that light. A cat put out 2 albums and it's the end of the world for them. Their lucky their in THESE times, cuz if they were in the 70's.....they wouldn't be able to pull this shit here. It isn't just musicians. We have an entire generation of candy asses in all occupations. People who need their hands held, their butts wiped, and their egos stroked 24/7. I work as a writer and do some acting on the side. If I produced as little as these folks do, I wouldn't make enough to keep body and soul together. They oughta be counting their blessings, instead of whining that people don't "understand" them.  We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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people are way too hard on others | |
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laurarichardson said: ButterscotchPimp said: AGAIN, i call BULLSHIT. Why is it that you people have to use Prince as the "universal standard" by which ALL artists should be judged? MARVIN GAYE went through some shit and had to find his way back to making music again before he died and MARVIN GAYE is FIVE times the artist that Prince will EVER BE. Like Adam already said, and i tried to say earlier in this thread i think there's a lot of "arm chair quarterbacking" going on in this thread where people that have never written, played or produced music seem to think it's easy or that your life doesn't affect your output, or worse seem to think that because apparently Prince doesn't seem to have a problem with it then no one else should. But this is the Org, so i guess i shouldn't be surprised. ----- " Prince as the "universal standard" by which ALL artists should be judged?" He is not the standard but he has work ethic out the ass. In fact a lot of ordinary people have great work ethics. You can't let life stop you from doing your thing. I think that is all we are trying to say. NO, Prince is PRINCE. Near as most people that have worked with him can tell, HE IS AN ALIEN. WHO DOESN'T SLEEP AND SPENDS ALL OF HIS WAKING HOURS EITHER PERFORMING OR IN THE STUDIO. There have been MILLIONS of artists over the years and you don't have to be like Prince to be considered an "artist". Ya'll kill me with this bullshit. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me...... | |
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People don't have to be workholics to be succssful but people do have to put in the time and effort into their carrers if they want to maintain the buzz and interst.
Prince would not be where he is today if he did not have a strong work ethic. He had a good work ethic when he firt started out and continues to be so. Prince took chances and capitalize on opportunities like building his own studio and doing movies. Those opportunities would not have been around forever if Prince got caught with the madness that is fame and life. I am sure has be though alot over the years but was able to cut though the crap and focus on the music. I guess Prince is lucky. [Edited 7/28/08 17:26pm] | |
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Purplestar88 said: People don't have to be workholics to be succssful but people do have to put in the time and effort into their carrers if they want to maintain the buzz and interst.
Prince would not be where he is today if he did not have a strong work ethic. He had a good work ethic when he first started out and continues to be so. Prince took chances and capitalize on opportunities like building his own studio and doing movies. Those opportunities would not have been around forever if Prince got caught with the madness that is fame and life. I am sure that he has be though alot over the years but was able to cut though the crap and focus on the music. [Edited 7/28/08 17:26pm] | |
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Now if only Maxwell would drop his new disc... | |
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Spoken like a music consumer...just give me new stuff to absorb, and I don't care what you got to do to get it out there, and don't you dare disagree with me for it! F that noise!
popgodazipa said: Let me tell you guys something. All of these so called neo soul guys go through this dramatic..I need to find myself before I can make more music bullshit! It's like they are never comfortable with their success and the pressure of reproducing whatever sound got them into the dance..and they go Lauren Hill and Maxwell on us..screw them and all their deepness. Hey it's your fucking job to make music and yeah it can be a little stressful when you are at work...that doesn't stop tables from getting bused, food being served, and babies being delivered....Give me a freaking break! | |
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According to wikipedia, a greatest hits album was released last month. My question is this - how does a label release a greatest hits album on an artist that has only recorded 24 songs on two albums? | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: laurarichardson said: ----- " Prince as the "universal standard" by which ALL artists should be judged?" He is not the standard but he has work ethic out the ass. In fact a lot of ordinary people have great work ethics. You can't let life stop you from doing your thing. I think that is all we are trying to say. NO, Prince is PRINCE. Near as most people that have worked with him can tell, HE IS AN ALIEN. WHO DOESN'T SLEEP AND SPENDS ALL OF HIS WAKING HOURS EITHER PERFORMING OR IN THE STUDIO. There have been MILLIONS of artists over the years and you don't have to be like Prince to be considered an "artist". Ya'll kill me with this bullshit. ----- "Near as most people that have worked with him can tell, HE IS AN ALIEN." :lol:No he just works hard | |
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Mong said: blackguitaristz said: Damn...HELLA post! I agree 100%. That's the MAJOR difference between cats from the 70's and these "boys" today. Van Hunt runs his mouth entirely too much about motherfuckers not "understanding" him and shit. Fuck people not "understanding" you. I don't want folks "understanding" me. If you're a real artist, your music is ALL folks NEED to understand. Period. And if they can't get with that, then fuck em'. Move on to the next joint. I like D myself but I hate that all this press keeps coming out about what he ISN'T doing. If his album isn't ready, then stay the fuck out of the media UNTILL your shit IS ready. Damn..Maxwell was doing the same shit. Nobody gives a fuck WHY your shit isn't out. When your album is ready to drop, everybody will know about it. You don't have to tell the media. How is D going to crumble under the pressure? Ni%#a, what pressure?! " Oh player...I'm so fucked up cuz women want me to strip every night"...Are u serious? Can u see Marvin or Teddy flipping out, not recording because of that shit? Man...whatever. None of these cats have to worry about carrying no torch to save anything. Ain't nobody looking to these cats in that light. A cat put out 2 albums and it's the end of the world for them. Their lucky their in THESE times, cuz if they were in the 70's.....they wouldn't be able to pull this shit here. Van Hunt is very much guilty of this shit. I just want to say to him "Well write some fucking songs!". Re D'Angelo, I do think he's special. "Voodoo"'s a weird album...not much in the way of "songs", but man, those grooves. I'll always be interested to hear what he comes up with. Good to see I'm not the only one who's noticed this. D'Angelo makes great grooves and I like his Curtis/Prince impression (by that I mean his vocal style), but the man is really no kind of songwriter. Since Prince there hasn't been a single consistently brilliant black songwriter, and D'Angelo hasn't written one memorable melody on either of his two albums. That's why his cover of Smokey Robinson's "Cruisin'" stood out so much. It had a melody. As for the Prince comparisons they may indeed be unfair, but some of y'all need to realize that D'Angelo himself uses Prince as the standard he's reaching for, and I think that's a big part of his problem. He feels he needs to do it all himself. He needs to realize that he is not Prince or Stevie and follow the Marvin Gaye model instead. Marvin wasn't a great songwriter either, and also had motivational problems, so he just collaborated a lot. Pretty much all his best songs were written with others. D'Angelo should take note. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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laurarichardson said: :lol:No he just works hard Lol wut? Prince hasn't released a great album since the 90's. He gave up working hard with the new millenium. | |
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guitarslinger44 said: laurarichardson said: :lol:No he just works hard Lol wut? Prince hasn't released a great album since the 90's. He gave up working hard with the new millenium. ----- We are discusing productivity not content. Althought I have liked some of the things P has done over the last decade and I consider the 90's to have been the worst decade for music since disco. | |
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laurarichardson said: guitarslinger44 said: Lol wut? Prince hasn't released a great album since the 90's. He gave up working hard with the new millenium. ----- We are discusing productivity not content. Althought I have liked some of the things P has done over the last decade and I consider the 90's to have been the worst decade for music since disco. I'd rather have Prince take 3 or 4 years between albums and put out really good ones than release one every year and have them be mediocre. I'm a quality over quantity person myself thankyouverymuch! | |
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laurarichardson said: guitarslinger44 said: Lol wut? Prince hasn't released a great album since the 90's. He gave up working hard with the new millenium. ----- We are discusing productivity not content. Althought I have liked some of the things P has done over the last decade and I consider the 90's to have been the worst decade for music since disco. but that raises a good question. if one artist churns out two albums a year full of filler and another artist releases strong material every eight years which one do you prefer? also the reason I made the statement that ppl are too hard on others is because D'angelo is just an entertainer, this is not the president of the United States, it would be in his best interest to get his head straight and personal issues in order rather than entertaining the public. In prince's day an artist may have had to release a lot of albums to create a following and a buzz, these days the machine is set up differently. Diangelo can release an album after eight years and still have a major buzz if clear channel or whatever major companies decide to market it. The pre MTV Prince days were different, Prince had five albums out before he became a household name, D and P are very different people, very different times, different music industry, so everybody should not constantly get the Prince did it why can't you comparison. | |
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CynicKill said: Oh snap! Wait a minute. Prince's most interesting work blossomed from collaborations with his band. I still feel it's telling that he TOO is less interesting without it.
This is far from the truth.. ..even though The NPG bands were better at fleshing out his material. The more band members took the forefront, the worse the output. [Edited 7/29/08 20:59pm] | |
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Ronny said: I haven't posted anything in a long time. ..but I can't help but jump in here.
Can you imagine Prince being so upset at something that he could not record/and release music? Can you imagine him sitting around eating chips all day, gainin 50lbs? It boils down to work ethic...Prince is old school, D'Angelo and gang are no school:) to share the opinion of an insider, who shall remain nameless - D'Angelo, Maxwell etc just don't have the discipline that Prince has always had. Where they may give up after a few hours, Prince will go for days to realize an idea. Now, add that to the undeniable fact that Prince has more great ideas in the Mountains 12" extended version than D'Angelo has shown in his entire career and you realize how silly this topic of comparing P to D is. D'Angelo is nice. Prince is great. Saadiq co-produces D'Angelo's best work. That's why he is in the videos. | |
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