I have read the postings on this questions and want to clear up some facts.
First of all the song "In My House" Rick wrote for himself two years before JoJo sung it. The song was never written Val Young. Eddie Murphy and others sang it before VaL WAS GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY. But, like Rick did many times he removed Val's voice ie.. background vocals on Urban Rhapsody.
None of the Mary Jane Girl material was every intended for Val Young. The
first project was to be JoJo 's solo project but, Rick lied and told
them it was a group performing on the demp not JoJo and session singers
the Water Sisters. Rick had to find anybody to fill the slots. No auditions took place. What you heard on all the projects was JoJo and the Water Sisters.
The band sang on live performances for everyone except JoJo fact not fiction.
She had to recreate "ALL NIGHT LONG" in LONDON by herself for broadcast
on TOP OF THE POPS as the others couldn't.
Qusetion has Val Young every gone on tour or did a solo concert?If
you have a successful solo career you don't go back to a group.Also none
of Val's songs were slated for use on any Mary Jane Girl project including the
Sweet Conversations project. Where do you people get this stuff?
Val DOES NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO USE THE NAME MARY JANE GIRLS PER
THE NEW COURT APPOINTED TRUSTEE. Without JoJo whatever Val was with was not
the MARY JANE GIRLS. JoJo appreciates all the fans who have supported her
over the years but,its time for the truth boys and girls. I expect and welcome replies to this posting but, read the credits and don't believe everything
you hear on a radio interview.

truth007 said:

There appears to be alot of conflicting information but it has been reported by several sources (including Rick himself) that "In My House" was originally intended for Val Young.Also,in late 1986 Rick began recording tracks for a third Mary Jane Girls albums.The album was tentatively titled 'Private Conversation'.When the group folded,Rick gave the songs to Val Young for her 1987 album of the same name.This info has been confirmed by several inside sources,including Harry Weinger of Universal/Motown.Someone on the Motown boards asked him if the unreleased Mary Jane Girls album would ever see the light of day and he reported all the details that I just told you.

SoulAlive said:

Guess what song she was intended to sing too? Fire & Desire. According to her.

It appeared that Teena Marie was sick during that session(which was intended esp for her to begin with) and when Rick saw that she was in a bad shape, he brought Val to record the tune with him,,,only to see Miss Lady Tee marching through the studio later that day to record the shit, and the rest as you know is black history

Val was def in the depth of the Rick James crew she just received her long awaited attention too little too late. Rick's stardom was fading out, he pulled the plug off Mary Jane Girl and the nasty scene with Motown was just all over the place and unfortunately for her, she got caught right in the middle.

Had she released her album @ the same time the Mary Jane Girls released their debut, it woulda been different. That was her only problem; timing.
[Edited 8/12/08 6:29am]

SoulAlive said:

this is how i discovered that song

^^^^

Me too!

Harlepolis said:

in many ways,Val Young's situation is similiar to Jill Jones.Both ladies are talented,but had to wait on the sidelines while their "bosses" concentrated on other artists and gave them more attention and stronger material.

SoulAlive said:

Yep!

Ms.Jones was there from the beginning but they gave her the mic and the spotlight after everybody went home.

Harlepolis said:

so true

SoulAlive said:

Again, lets start at the beginning. I know Harry Weinger at Motown and he
never said "In My House" was for Val Young.The Motown executives in power
at that time "entertained" Rick by trying giving him funds to start different
groups. Val at best was a tax write-off for Rick and Motown. Look at the record sales. Does she or has she every toured on her own music. What duets
has she every done with Rick or anyone else if he respected her talent. Did he take her on your with him as a featured act ever?Please review what I had posted earlier about this. I ahve no reason to lie . My sources are myself and others who were there. Facts not Fiction

truth007 said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree I'm not calling you or anyone a liar.It's not that important anyway,.

don't know much about her
except the "To Live & Die In LA" tidbit
and the fact that she was a
Rick James protege...

I have the album (Seduction I think is the name)
with "If You Should Ever Be Lonley" on it

and I enjoy those songs thorougly

truth007 said:

So you're saying your information should be taken into account above all else because Val never seized the opportunity to duet with Rick (which she partially did on Seduction) and she never made it big?

Seems like an irrational bit of discrediting if you ask me.

Militant said:

I didn't know that!

IdentityCrisis said:

The topic for the page was that Val was Rick's protege'. My response
to this claim was that a protege's mentor fosters their career. For example
a real duet is done not partially.They are put on tour as a opening act or
featured. The opportunity isn't seized but, given and offered. Please show me
where I have been irrational in my statements or logic. A true talent tours and performs on their own music not someone else's.

truth007 said:

So basically,you're calling Rick James a liar He said himself that "In My House" was originally intended for Val Young,until a Motown exec convinced him to give it away to the Mary Jane Girls.He said this,so unless he was high when he made this claim (lol),I'm gonna take his word for it.

You seem to be very bitter towards Val Young.I don't know the reason,but let's not pretend that she had no talent.She's a great vocalist and if she wasn't,why did many other artists and rappers use her on their songs? You also don't consider her to be a legitimate "protege" of Rick James'.He helped her get signed to Motown,he produced most of her album,he sings on her debut single ("Seduction") and he even featured her in his "Glow" video (as a backup singer)....that sounds like a "protege" to me.As for him not using her as an opening act on his tours...Rick did very little touring after 1985.By then,his life was being destroyed by drugs and a bitter feud with Motown.He was having problems keeping his own career together.In fact,Motown dropped him soon thereafter.There wasn't much that he could do for Val Young,in terms of marketing and promoting her.



I assume that you're referring to the fact that,in recent years,Val was touring as the lead singer in the Mary Jane Girls.You clearly take offense at this.But let's be honest....the Mary Jane Girls are all mixed up these days anyway.JoJo is touring with two young white girls who were never a part of the original group.She bills herself as "JoJo of the Mary Jane Girls" and Rick was pissed about this (several years ago,he threatened to sue her).As for the other original girls,they obviously had no problem touring with Val as the lead singer.I know it sucks when groups are at odds with each other and can't put aside their differences and reunite properly (look what's happening with the band War....so so sad),but it is what it is.For the record,Val is no longer touring with the MJGs.She's getting ready to release a solo CD.

DirtyChris said:

Cinnie said:

Yep. In the 1990's, Val basically became a part of the Death Row Records camp. She never signed with Suge, but I have no doubt that 'Pac would have signed her to Makaveli Records had he survived the shooting, he had some big plans for the label.

There was a few different tracks he did with her, including at least one called "Don't Stop The Music" that has yet to be released, and the original version of "Lil Homies", later released on the "Until The End Of Time" album.

After Pac's passing she continued to work with other Death Row/Tupac affiliates like Snoop, Napoleon of the Outlawz and Johnny J, as well as Yukmouth and Kurupt.

Militant said:

Damn, thanks for breaking it down.


[Edited 9/16/08 14:34pm]

SoulAlive said:[quote]

truth007 said:

Let's take this one step at a time.Although, you previously,stated let's agree
to disagree it appears this is not the case. So let us explore what is considered success in the music business 101. Record sales and chart position.
This also relates to being able to tour on the music You record.Val's music
unless a miracle has happened had horrible sales inspite of money spent to promote and market. This was done when Rick had some juice not during his
time of conflict with Motown as I said before a tax-write off at best.
Please tell me of the show you attended where you heard Val sing her music in concert. I won't hold my breath. What did her songs chart?
In terms of what Rick said I presume you are referring to Rick's book that
was published after he died by the executors that were just removed by the court. Did Rick say this to you personally because I know several members of the Stone City band who will state Rick created the song for himself during
rehershal for himself, tried it with others including Eddie Murphy before giving it to Val.Doesn't quite sound as though the song was written for Val does it.
Rick had a choice to promote Val but, didn't and maybe for good reason.You are correct that JoJo is still touring and with qualified this time back-up
performers. A law suit is still ongoing with Rick's estate regarding numerous
issues. If you want the Original Mary Jane Girls then that is JoJo and session
singers the Water Sisters who sang with JoJo in the studio creating what
you heard on the radio. So I guess the others didn't mind hooking up with Val
since they didn't create the music in the first place.By the way you still
haven't said why Val the protege' isn't touring on her own music maybe she will on her new album. A word of advice don't hold your breath.

truth007 said:

Oh,I agree...her album wasn't very successful.No one is disputing that.In my area,the two singles ("Seduction" and "If You Should Ever Be Lonely") received substantial airplay on the R&B stations,but the album wasn't a huge hit.It's lack of success is surprising because the album is at least as strong as the second Mary Jane Girls album (which went gold).But I stand behind my previous statement.By late 1985 (when 'Seduction' was released),Rick's life was falling apart.His own recent album 'Glow' didn't do very well,he was feuding with Motown,and his drug problems were getting worse.Under these unfortunate circumstances,he was in no postiion to promote someone else's career.This is why his other big project in 1985 (the Process and The Doo Rags album) flopped as well.The tide was turning and Val was caught in the crossfire,as were the Mary Jane Girls.That's why we never got a third album from them.Rick's life was in disarray.





Actually,it does.The song sounds exactly like a song that Val would sing.Musically and lyrically,it's not that much different than the other songs that appeared on Val's album.I can't imagine Rick (or any man) singing those lyrics.It's clearly written from a woman's point of view.And yes,it was Rick who mentioned that "In My House" was written for Val and I've heard this from other sources too.I don't know why you think this so unbelievable.Artists and producers often write songs for a specific artist,then wind up giving it to somebody else.Pebbles' 1988 hit "Girlfriend" was originally written for Vanessa Williams to sing....Sheila E's 1984 hit "The Glamorous Life" was originally written for Apollonia 6 to record.I can list dozens of other examples.





It wouldn't have mattered anyway.Like I said before,Rick was having numerous problems of his own.Hell,he couldn't even manage his own career at that point.




Yeah,and it's sad isn't it? I saw the Mary Jane Girls in 1996 and it was three of the original girls (JoJo,Maxi and another original member whose name I forgot).I don't know what happened since then,but JoJo is now at odds with the original girls.




I already told you the reasons why Val never reached her full potential.She was a Rick James protege at the wrong time.Her situation is similiar to Jill Jones,a Prince protege who,despite her talent,never got the props and attention she deserved.Fortunately for Val,she was able to become a popular session vocalist on other artist's records ("To Live And Die In L.A" by Tupac,for example).

SoulAlive said:

Again, lets go over the points I am bringing up that you have not addressed.
First of I asked you if Rick said to you "personally" that he wrote "In My House" for Val or did you get it from the book. I told you my sources and
the circumstances of how the song was created. Next Val's album didn't do well
because of performance and material. The Mary Jane Girl projects didn't
receive the proper marketing and promotion it needed either but,it became a classic on its' own due to performance, fan support and "jock" picks. Good music has a way of finding its way to the top. Yes, Rick had numerous issuse's but this didn't prevent Val's project from being succesful. I agree Process and The Doo-Rags got a bad deal as they never really had a chance to be promoted.By the way the second Mary Jane Girl project went platinium eventually.
JoJo conflict with the original back-up singers and Val is that they are
making claim to work they didn't perform from what I understand.It's like you working all week and someone else getting your check.Again, what you heard
was JoJo and the WATER SISTERS.I am surprised you aren't aware of this
since you are making the above statements.
By the way you still have not answered why VAL isn't touring on her own
music not someone else's. If the music as you have stated unappreciated and
that outstanding one would think promotors and agents would have her booked
on dates.In terms of her session work if you know anything about this industry
some studio work is done on hook-ups and various "favors". I can't tell you who to be a fan of but, I have a different definition of protege' and success
from you. Once again let's agree to disagree.

Now i know the waters sang background vocals on some of rick's solo
projects. Now truth are you saying that the waters sisters sung background
vocals on just the MJG songs that JoJo sung lead on. Now particularly on
the first MJG album, Cheri was credited with singing Jealousy which i can
believe because that song suited her. I can't imagine the waters sisters
singing that song in that style. I know candice ghant was credited with singing
You are my heaven on the first MJG album. Also Candice was credited with
singing I betcha on the second MJG album. Corvette was credited with singing one tune and Maxi one tune also on the second MJG album.
Now i guess from what you are saying the waters sisters sang backing vocals on
all the songs JoJo sung lead on as opposed to candice, maxi, cheri or corvette.
I was looking in my collection to find my 2 MJG albums but i couldn't put my
finger on them. I have the greatest hits cd but of course the waters sisters
aren't credited on it. This is interesting stuff.
I will agree with you truth on Val Young. While i do like some of her music, her
material wasn't strong enough for her to go out on her own. She would have had
to open for Rick had she had the opportunity. While some of us old heads remember seduction, if you should be lonely, and private conversations i guarantee a lot more from our era don't even know who Val Young is.

The Waters are the singers behind JoJo,,,not the rest of the Mary Jane Girls ensemble in short.

Harlepolis said:

Okay i get the understanding on this. So i suppose when rick bought in the
rest of the girls in the group he let candi, cheri, corvette, and maxi cut
a song each singing lead vocals over the span of their two lp's
to give the other girls a little credibility.
[Edited 9/17/08 19:00pm]

phunkdaddy said:

I don't think we can trust that credibility either.

I've heard quite afew rumors from his message board that he used other session singers from the Buffalo scene for the MGS 2nd album(and the shelved).

Aaaand he ONLY let JoJo sing live while the rest of the girls' "supposed" vocals were pre-recorded,,,,we could only assume which female from the Rick James camp sang those parts

Oh yes, there was alot of fuckery in that department.
[Edited 9/17/08 19:05pm]

to echo Cinnie
knowledge has truly
been dropped in this thread

truth007 said:

Yes,you have told me about your "sources" and what you believe to be the truth,but again,I'm gonna believe Rick on this one.I've never spoken to him personally,but I have no reason to believe that he would lie about this.On at least two occasions,he has clearly stated that "In My House" was written for Val Young to record....

"The Mary Jane Girls were four girls that could sing,dance,look beautiful and had class-the kind of girl I would wanna date if I met them in a club."In My House" was written for Val Young,but I hadn't started working on her album yet.When I'm working with the artist,and know them spritually and soulfully enough enough where I can write for them,I think it's easier for me to write for women than it is for me.It's easier for me to relate to the pain we men take them through"---from the liner notes of the 'The Best of Rick James and Friends:The Millenium Collection' CD (Motown/Chronicles).

"The Mary Jane Girls album was called 'Only Four You'.The single "In My House" was a song I originally wrote for Val Young but I ended up giving it to the girls."----from 'The Confessions of Rick James: Memoirs of a SuperFreak' (page 230).





That's your opinion.I happen to think that the album is at least as strong as the second Mary Jane Girls album.





Newsflash: Good music does not always "find its way to the top".I can name dozens of amazing albums that didn't go anywhere.There are no guarantees in the music biz.Nobody can say what will,or won't,become a big hit.





JoJo may have a legitimate reason to be pissed but from what I understand,Rick wasn't too happy with the fact that she was out there touring with the Mary Jane Girls name.As I said before,Rick even threatened to sue her.So,there's alot of bitterness/ugliness to go around (lol) when we're discussing the Mary Jane Girls situation.I'm not gonna say who's right or who's wrong because none of it matters anymore,but I don't know why you're picking on Val.She's not the main reason why things went sour with the Mary Jane Girls.



Let's stop this now.We're going around in circles.You dislike Val.I get it.There's no way I can change your mind,or vice versa.





No problem

I'd take Val over MJG any day of the week, her voice is amazing.

Although I've always harbored a crush on Corvette

phunkdaddy said:

I don't know the extent to which the Waters sisters were utilized on the albums,but it's clear that the individual members were singing the lead vocals on the songs that they are credited for.For example,that really is Corvette singing the lead vocal on "Girlfriend" and yes,that's Cheri singing the lead vocal on "Jealousy" (a very underrated song,btw).

Another point I wanted to make.Another person in this thread doesn't believe that "In My House" was written for Val Young to sing.If you listen to the song,you can see that it was clearly written as a solo song.It wasn't meant to be a 'girl group' song.JoJo sings the verses and the chorus,leaving the girls with not much to do...lol....the background vocal is skimpy and somewhat unncessary.I can easily imagine Val singing this song on her own,with no need for a backup vocal at all.