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PrintableVoicesCarry said: AlexdeParis said: Again, "Backyard" in 1991 was a #4 R&B hit. Remember, these ladies enjoyed more success from the R&B market (with the exception of Janet from Control forward). Yes, I was referring to the pop charts  The biggest hit from Affairs of the Heart was I'm The One You Need (#19 Pop, #3 R&B).
I think MCA saw the #124 peak of Affairs of the Heart (after two Top 20 albums preceding it) and got scared. Really, they were too hasty. They should have regrouped and started over with a new record. I had to believe the musical trends changing around that time was another reason Jody flopped. Plus I think she lacked the attention Madonna and Janet had gotten. But it's strange how she was a nonstop success for her first two albums and then suddenly crashed. | |
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VoicesCarry said: Timmy84 said: Pebbles' last charted Billboard single was in 1995. "Are You Ready" peaked at No. 38 R&B.
See my note above   I see it now. | |
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Timmy84 said: VoicesCarry said: Yes, I was referring to the pop charts The biggest hit from Affairs of the Heart was I'm The One You Need (#19 Pop, #3 R&B).
I think MCA saw the #124 peak of Affairs of the Heart (after two Top 20 albums preceding it) and got scared. Really, they were too hasty. They should have regrouped and started over with a new record. I had to believe the musical trends changing around that time was another reason Jody flopped. Plus I think she lacked the attention Madonna and Janet had gotten. But it's strange how she was a nonstop success for her first two albums and then suddenly crashed. Well, I think it had more to do with the tone of Affairs of the Heart (I'm gonna call it AOTH from now on, since I can't type that over and over 'gain ) and not necessarily music trends changing. If Jody had a bangin' uptempo first single on par with Looking For a New Love on that album, she would have been fine. People wanted dance jams from her, not a dark, moody album. It's the same with Janet, but Janet knew this and avoided the pitfalls. How many ballads has she released? Barely any. Really, the same thing DID happen to Janet when she released The Velvet Rope, which, combined with Got 'Til It's Gone, was such a sharp tonal shift from janet. that it kept many people away.....until she released the uptempo clubby Together Again. [Edited 7/18/08 13:04pm] | |
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VoicesCarry said: Timmy84 said: I had to believe the musical trends changing around that time was another reason Jody flopped. Plus I think she lacked the attention Madonna and Janet had gotten. But it's strange how she was a nonstop success for her first two albums and then suddenly crashed. Well, I think it had more to do with the tone of Affairs of the Heart (I'm gonna call it AOTH from now on, since I can't type that over and over 'gain ) and not necessarily music trends changing. If Jody had a bangin' uptempo first single on par with Looking For a New Love on that album, she would have been fine. People wanted dance jams from her, not a dark, moody album. It's the same with Janet, but Janet knew this and avoided the pitfalls. How many ballads has she released? Barely any. Really, the same thing DID happen to Janet when she released The Velvet Rope, which, combined with Got 'Til It's Gone, was such a sharp tonal shift from janet. that it kept many people away.....until she released the uptempo clubby Together Again. But Janet's company basically was helping her out. Jody's was, as you said, scared, lol. | |
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Timmy84 said: VoicesCarry said: Well, I think it had more to do with the tone of Affairs of the Heart (I'm gonna call it AOTH from now on, since I can't type that over and over 'gain ) and not necessarily music trends changing. If Jody had a bangin' uptempo first single on par with Looking For a New Love on that album, she would have been fine. People wanted dance jams from her, not a dark, moody album. It's the same with Janet, but Janet knew this and avoided the pitfalls. How many ballads has she released? Barely any. Really, the same thing DID happen to Janet when she released The Velvet Rope, which, combined with Got 'Til It's Gone, was such a sharp tonal shift from janet. that it kept many people away.....until she released the uptempo clubby Together Again. But Janet's company basically was helping her out. Jody's was, as you said, scared, lol.Janet had a #1 debut with The Velvet Rope, so they weren't as scared as MCA with a #124 peak. TVR sold more copies in its first week than AOTH has sold to date.[Edited 7/18/08 13:04pm] | |
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What matters here is these ladies will ALWAYS have that hardcore R&B support, but for mainstream success on the level of Madonna or Janet, they need to smash those Top 40 charts. Nothing helps sales like a massive hit at Top 40. When they lose that Top 40 support, album sales plummet. People need to learn that you don't fuck with the first single. Don't try to be dark or artsy or whatever...it rarely works. And for God's sake, if you're established as a "dance" artist, don't go releasing anything less than midtempo for the first single. Ciara had over 100 million audience impressions for Promise, but it didn't help her shift albums because it flopped at Top 40. Kelly Clarkson got buttfucked with Never Again, as did Madonna with American Life (was she high when she greenlit that single release?!  )[Edited 7/18/08 13:08pm] | |
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VoicesCarry said: Timmy84 said: I had to believe the musical trends changing around that time was another reason Jody flopped. Plus I think she lacked the attention Madonna and Janet had gotten. But it's strange how she was a nonstop success for her first two albums and then suddenly crashed. Well, I think it had more to do with the tone of Affairs of the Heart (I'm gonna call it AOTH from now on, since I can't type that over and over 'gain ) and not necessarily music trends changing. If Jody had a bangin' uptempo first single on par with Looking For a New Love on that album, she would have been fine. People wanted dance jams from her, not a dark, moody album.But the singles from that album weren't exactly downtempo. "I Want You" was the lead-off single and it performed well with R&B radio (#5) but flopped on the pop chart (#61). The second single was "I'm the One You Need," which did about the same on both charts (#23 and #19). Thanks to the remixes, it was a big dance hit. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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AlexdeParis said: VoicesCarry said: Well, I think it had more to do with the tone of Affairs of the Heart (I'm gonna call it AOTH from now on, since I can't type that over and over 'gain ) and not necessarily music trends changing. If Jody had a bangin' uptempo first single on par with Looking For a New Love on that album, she would have been fine. People wanted dance jams from her, not a dark, moody album.But the singles from that album weren't exactly downtempo. "I Want You" was the lead-off single and it performed well with R&B radio (#5) but flopped on the pop chart (#61). The second single was "I'm the One You Need," which did about the same on both charts (#23 and #19). Thanks to the remixes, it was a big dance hit. I Want You is a great track and all, but I really can't compare it to her earlier work in terms of catchiness. It doesn't reel me in, and I don't need ot hear it 398483 times in a row like I do with Don't You Want Me. ; That's what I was referring to....more emphasis on the "bangin'" than the "uptempo", lol. | |
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VoicesCarry said: What matters here is these ladies will ALWAYS have that hardcore R&B support, but for mainstream success on the level of Madonna or Janet, they need to smash those Top 40 charts. Nothing helps sales like a massive hit at Top 40. When they lose that Top 40 support, album sales plummet. People need to learn that you don't fuck with the first single. Don't try to be dark or artsy or whatever...it rarely works. And for God's sake, if you're established as a "dance" artist, don't go releasing anything less than midtempo for the first single.
Ciara had over 100 million audience impressions for Promise, but it didn't help her shift albums because it flopped at Top 40. Kelly Clarkson got buttfucked with Never Again, as did Madonna with American Life (was she high when she greenlit that single release?! )
[Edited 7/18/08 13:08pm] That's true. | |
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VoicesCarry said: AlexdeParis said: But the singles from that album weren't exactly downtempo. "I Want You" was the lead-off single and it performed well with R&B radio (#5) but flopped on the pop chart (#61). The second single was "I'm the One You Need," which did about the same on both charts (#23 and #19). Thanks to the remixes, it was a big dance hit. I Want You is a great track and all, but I really can't compare it to her earlier work in terms of catchiness. It doesn't reel me in, and I don't need ot hear it 398483 times in a row like I do with Don't You Want Me. ; That's what I was referring to....more emphasis on the "bangin'" than the "uptempo", lol. I can dig it.  "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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Oh, and I am in no way diminishing the worth of the R&B charts. It's just that this seems to be the general trend in terms of radio formats and sales. And the Hot 100, for better or worse, has always represented all radio formats, and cross-format support is usually essential for sustained success on that chart.
Post-1990, It is VERY rare for a female artist with strictly Rhythmic/Urban support to sell a lot of albums. The one current exception I can think of would be Keyshia Cole, and I would argue that's more likely to be due to her TV show than her radio exposure. [Edited 7/18/08 13:17pm] | |
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VoicesCarry said: Oh, and I am in no way diminishing the worth of the R&B charts. It's just that this seems to be the general trend in terms of radio formats and sales. And the Hot 100, for better or worse, has always represented all radio formats, and cross-format support is usually essential for sustained success on that chart.
It is VERY rare for a female artist with strictly Rhythmic/Urban support to sell a lot of albums. The one exception I can think of would be Keyshia Cole, and I would argue that's more likely to be due to her TV show than her radio exposure. [Edited 7/18/08 13:16pm] I definitely see where you're coming from but in essence, I've always wanted to know how someone from the R&B community did on the R&B charts.  | |
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Timmy84 said: VoicesCarry said: Oh, and I am in no way diminishing the worth of the R&B charts. It's just that this seems to be the general trend in terms of radio formats and sales. And the Hot 100, for better or worse, has always represented all radio formats, and cross-format support is usually essential for sustained success on that chart.
It is VERY rare for a female artist with strictly Rhythmic/Urban support to sell a lot of albums. The one exception I can think of would be Keyshia Cole, and I would argue that's more likely to be due to her TV show than her radio exposure. [Edited 7/18/08 13:16pm] I definitely see where you're coming from but in essence, I've always wanted to know how someone from the R&B community did on the R&B charts. Oh, hell yes. It's important, because at least I know people somehwere have TASTE when a great single charts higher on R&B than on Pop How the hell did Jody's Still a Thrill only make #53 Pop, but #3 R&B? 
R&B was a better chart when sales really mattered. For some reason they still have not incorporated digital sales into the R&B charts, which they have done for the Hot 100 and the Pop 100. Only physical sales count. [Edited 7/18/08 13:20pm] | |
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VoicesCarry said: Timmy84 said: I definitely see where you're coming from but in essence, I've always wanted to know how someone from the R&B community did on the R&B charts. Oh, hell yes. It's important, because at least I know people somehwere have TASTE when a great single charts higher on R&B than on Pop
R&B was a better chart when sales really mattered. [Edited 7/18/08 13:19pm] Speaking of, Chaka Khan scored her latest top 40 singles on the R&B chart last year with "Angel" and "For All Time" this year. I'm actually amazed when R&B artists have substantial pop success too. | |
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VoicesCarry said: Timmy84 said: I definitely see where you're coming from but in essence, I've always wanted to know how someone from the R&B community did on the R&B charts. Oh, hell yes. It's important, because at least I know people somehwere have TASTE when a great single charts higher on R&B than on Pop How the hell did Jody's Still a Thrill only make #53 Pop, but #3 R&B?
R&B was a better chart when sales really mattered. For some reason they still have not incorporated digital sales into the R&B charts, which they have done for the Hot 100 and the Pop 100. Only physical sales count. So ridiculous. I used to keep up with the charts, but I stopped caring somewhere in the mid-90s."Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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AlexdeParis said: VoicesCarry said: Oh, hell yes. It's important, because at least I know people somehwere have TASTE when a great single charts higher on R&B than on Pop How the hell did Jody's Still a Thrill only make #53 Pop, but #3 R&B?
R&B was a better chart when sales really mattered. For some reason they still have not incorporated digital sales into the R&B charts, which they have done for the Hot 100 and the Pop 100. Only physical sales count. So ridiculous. I used to keep up with the charts, but I stopped caring somewhere in the mid-90s.That was a travesty. "Still a Thrill" sounded like a great mix of pop and R&B so that was shitty it only reached #53 pop. Then again I'm still upset Stevie's "Ribbon in the Sky" peaked at #46 pop but yet became a top ten hit on the R&B chart. | |
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I was really into.....
Karyn White - KARYN WHITE Sheena Easton - THE LOVER IN ME Jody Watley - LARGER THAN LIFE Vanessa Williams - THE RIGHT STUFF Janet Jackson - RHYTHM NATION Pointer Sisters - SERIOUS SLAMMIN' Grace Jones - BULLETPROOF HEART Pebbles - PEBBLES Brenda Russell - GET HERE Chaka Khan - C.K. Samantha Fox - I WANNA HAVE SOME FUN |
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Timmy84 said: AlexdeParis said: So ridiculous. I used to keep up with the charts, but I stopped caring somewhere in the mid-90s.That was a travesty. "Still a Thrill" sounded like a great mix of pop and R&B so that was shitty it only reached #53 pop. Then again I'm still upset Stevie's "Ribbon in the Sky" peaked at #46 pop but yet became a top ten hit on the R&B chart. Well, there were arguably extenuating circumstances. It was the third and final single released from a hits album, so most people had already picked up Musiquarium by the time it was released. I believe it was also released after the mega-hit "Ebony and Ivory." (And let me just say that the Psych commercial with Shawn and Gus singing it is priceless. The only bad thing about the new season starting tonight is that they're probably going to stop showing that commercial.) [Edited 7/18/08 13:39pm] "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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AlexdeParis said: Timmy84 said: That was a travesty. "Still a Thrill" sounded like a great mix of pop and R&B so that was shitty it only reached #53 pop. Then again I'm still upset Stevie's "Ribbon in the Sky" peaked at #46 pop but yet became a top ten hit on the R&B chart. Well, there were arguably extenuating circumstances. It was the third and final single released from a hits album, so most people had already picked up Musiquarium by the time it was released. I believe it was also released after the mega-hit "Ebony and Ivory." Damn. Really? That's what you call bad timing. But of course something like "Ebony and Ivory" would BE on the pop charts in 1982. | |
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AlexdeParis said: VoicesCarry said: Well, I think it had more to do with the tone of Affairs of the Heart (I'm gonna call it AOTH from now on, since I can't type that over and over 'gain ) and not necessarily music trends changing. If Jody had a bangin' uptempo first single on par with Looking For a New Love on that album, she would have been fine. People wanted dance jams from her, not a dark, moody album.But the singles from that album weren't exactly downtempo. "I Want You" was the lead-off single and it performed well with R&B radio (#5) but flopped on the pop chart (#61). The second single was "I'm the One You Need," which did about the same on both charts (#23 and #19). Thanks to the remixes, it was a big dance hit. it's so nice finding someone to talk with about jody and karyn Although I like I Want You and love the video (guess where Beyonce got her moves from haha); I'm the One You Need should have been the first single, that's one of her best songs EVER and a fresh change from her first 2 albums, yet still dancy and melodic. I love her adlibs in that. | |
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anyone else? | |
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alphastreet said: AlexdeParis said: But the singles from that album weren't exactly downtempo. "I Want You" was the lead-off single and it performed well with R&B radio (#5) but flopped on the pop chart (#61). The second single was "I'm the One You Need," which did about the same on both charts (#23 and #19). Thanks to the remixes, it was a big dance hit. it's so nice finding someone to talk with about jody and karyn Although I like I Want You and love the video (guess where Beyonce got her moves from haha); I'm the One You Need should have been the first single, that's one of her best songs EVER and a fresh change from her first 2 albums, yet still dancy and melodic. I love her adlibs in that.i think you may be overrating jody watley's 'influence' a lil bit | |
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VoicesCarry said: Oh, and I am in no way diminishing the worth of the R&B charts. It's just that this seems to be the general trend in terms of radio formats and sales. And the Hot 100, for better or worse, has always represented all radio formats, and cross-format support is usually essential for sustained success on that chart.
Post-1990, It is VERY rare for a female artist with strictly Rhythmic/Urban support to sell a lot of albums. The one current exception I can think of would be Keyshia Cole, and I would argue that's more likely to be due to her TV show than her radio exposure. [Edited 7/18/08 13:17pm] What about Baduizm...and Mary J? I'll leave it alone babe...just be me | |
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Wowugotit said: I was really into.....
Karyn White - KARYN WHITE Sheena Easton - THE LOVER IN ME Jody Watley - LARGER THAN LIFE Vanessa Williams - THE RIGHT STUFF Janet Jackson - RHYTHM NATION Pointer Sisters - SERIOUS SLAMMIN' Grace Jones - BULLETPROOF HEART Pebbles - PEBBLES Brenda Russell - GET HERE Chaka Khan - C.K. Samantha Fox - I WANNA HAVE SOME FUN I'm so hitting up every LP next time I'm searching for CDs...thanks! I'll leave it alone babe...just be me | |
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Janet. No question.
Some of my fondest memories as a child are associated with dancing to her music on weekend afternoons in 1990. I danced in front of the TV to "Rhythm Nation," "Alright, "LWND(WY)," and "Miss You Much" when they were brand new videos. I would be in my front driveway in summertime dancing barefoot with the rhythm of "Alright" in my head -- that's how I used to play outside as a kid. My siblings even had the Rhythm Nation movie on VHS and we'd watch it repeatedly. We used to rewind "The Knowledge" and vibe off of that; even watching that little "Making of Rhythm Nation" minisode after the video ended (and since we were kids, laughing every time the dancers messed up the "5, 4, 3, 2, 1..." hand countdown and would give the camera the finger. Great memories. | |
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lowkey said: alphastreet said: it's so nice finding someone to talk with about jody and karyn Although I like I Want You and love the video (guess where Beyonce got her moves from haha); I'm the One You Need should have been the first single, that's one of her best songs EVER and a fresh change from her first 2 albums, yet still dancy and melodic. I love her adlibs in that.i think you may be overrating jody watley's 'influence' a lil bit I know jody was inspired by older movies for that video, but she and karyn dressed like that before Beyonce came into the picture. All women have been influential though most seem to give janet the most credit, though she also really deserves it and has inspired me a great deal. | |
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so I just came back from Sonic Boom and bought Jody Watley and Affairs of the Heart. I listened to the first one already and ITS THE BEST ALBUM OF THE LATE 80's!!! Right up there with Control, Bad, Faith, etc!!!!! I don't know why I didn't buy it sooner but I love every song start to finish and the beats are incredible. I can now see why people think it was like another Control, I think it had some edge, and not to pull a totalalisa, but it's the album Prince never made!!! | |
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Jody Watley was the best. Janet (as far as late 80s goes, was the second best, she didn't fuck up until the "Janet" album in the early 90s). As for Pebbles....next! Nothing great and nothing horrible either. And as for Karyn White....hell to the naw! That boring ass overplayed song "Superwoman" is reason enough alone to not like her. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: Jody Watley was the best. Janet (as far as late 80s goes, was the second best, she didn't fuck up until the "Janet" album in the early 90s). As for Pebbles....next! Nothing great and nothing horrible either. And as for Karyn White....hell to the naw! That boring ass overplayed song "Superwoman" is reason enough alone to not like her.
"Superwoman" is a song all men (straight or gay) should listen to!! 
I know the female singers you like are all "nasty girls", so didn't you like Karyn's "Secret Rendezvous" hit-or was that too tame for you as well? | |
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I think it would be definitely riding Karyn very hard, pulling out and dumping a huge load on Pebbles' face whilst Jody licks it up and does a cum swap with Janet.
Er, is this about music? | |
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