LittleAmy said:

Vitiligo sufferers don't bleach their own skin. Michael himself told Oprah he used make up to even out his skin, not skin bleach. He actually said he'd never even heard of skin bleaching.
[Edited 7/12/08 14:51pm]

midnightmover said:

Actually, they do. In cases of extreme, full body vitiligo, many patients choose to bleach the remaining pigment out of the skin, to achieve an even tone. It is a prescribed treatment.

midnightmover said:

IMO, it's murky when Michael Jackson was supposedly diagnosed with vitiligo (circa 1982 to 1987). But it's not unusual for black Americans to use skin cream like Ambi (a popular OTC product) to bleach discolorations and blemishes to even out your skin tone. Also, my dermatologist gave me some bleaching cream to even out my skin tone recently.
[Edited 7/12/08 13:21pm]

LittleAmy said:

Well, and he did even less interviews with other papers, as, like I pointed out before, he did not really do print interviews in the past 30 years! So of the few he did, he did most with Ebony/Jet!


Yeah, but you insinuated he's distancing himself from being black, but all the things dag pointed out, all the people he hangs with, show a different side!


Wow, so now he's a racist too or why do you bring that in? And so any white person, who wants to get a darker tan, hates his race and is a racist too!


Yawn, I guess it's best if you take care of your own issues, instead of being offended by MJ's issues and alleged "Self-hatred"! Seriously, you're too obsessed about some person's actions (somebody you do not even care about)! What does it concern you anyway?!? Believe what you want to believe and give others the same right, without name calling!

Timmy84 said:

Huh?? Weird? What is weird about that! You're younger then me, so technically you're a boy to me! You refer to Marvin Gaye as "my boy", though at the time he was 20 years older than you (at the time of his death), or would be 50 years older than you now (if he would still live) ... but whatever.. I found a site once which had listed all MJ Ebony/Jet pieces including if it was a story or interview... I just don't know anymore what it was called... thought you knew it... since you posted the Ebony stuff! Michael always kept good contact with Ebony/Jet and the Johnson family throughout the years!

MattyJam said:

Of course anyone can bleach their own skin, but skin bleaching is not the way vitiligo sufferers deal with their condition. So clearly Michael made a choice to lighten his skin. He was not forced into it as he would like us to believe. That is the point. When you consider that he chose to have three caucasian children his motivation seems pretty obvious. He does not want to be black.

midnightmover said:

Incorrect.
[Edited 7/12/08 13:29pm]

midnightmover said:

Why don't you do just a little research into the disease before making such blatantly incorrect statements? Skin bleaching is exactly the way many sufferers of full body vitiligo deal with their condition, it is even recommended by dermatologists.

midnightmover said:

Ah, and that says you??? Wikipedia says this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo

There are a number of ways to alter the appearance of vitiligo without addressing its underlying cause. In mild cases, vitiligo patches can be hidden with makeup or other cosmetic camouflage solutions. If the affected person is pale-skinned, the patches can be made less visible by avoiding sunlight and the sun tanning of unaffected skin. However, exposure to sunlight may also cause the melanocytes to regenerate to allow the pigmentation to come back to its original color....

Alternatively, some people with vitiligo opt for chemical depigmentation, which uses 20% monobenzone (monobenzylether of hydroquinone). This process is irreversible and generally ends up with complete or mostly complete depigmentation.

Wow, and now we're full on in the old Vitiligo discussion again!

But seriously, people would just do well to take care of their own actions instead of judging somebody else, whom they do not even know!!,
[Edited 7/12/08 13:34pm]

PatrickS77 said:

Again, giving an interview once a decade with a national publication like Ebony doesn't mean anything. Particularly now, when he is considered P.R. poison and it's a magazine that is known for softball journalism. You're trying to make it much more than what it is.

PatrickS77 said:

I didn't insinuate anything; you CHOSE to misinterpret what I said into something not even remotely the same and tried to put words in my mouth. You can stick to what I said or not have a conversation with me.

PatrickS77 said:

Again, trying to invent an argument. I didn't call anyone a racist, and it also shows (once again) you don't know how to define racism. What I said was self-explanatory, but I've come to realize that on the issue of black/white race relations some people don't view the topic from the same perspective as black Americans (namely, historical and socioeconomic).

You and daq are trying to define racism from a personal/assumptive perspective -- which is the wrong way to look at it, IMO. Evidently, you haven't taken into consideration that Michael Jackson (like a lot of black Americans) has grown up in a society where white Americans were considered the standard of beauty and it has affected a lot of black Americans' self-perception and self-esteem. His appearance, his wives and his "children" all share that commonality, but you two are too locked in one perspective (and a faulty one, at that) to consider the perspectives of those who are black Americans.

Where the disconnection in this (and other conversations on race in the United States, not just The Org) is you have one group defining racism one way and another group defining it another way.
[Edited 7/12/08 13:53pm]

MattyJam said:

-----
Because it is my opinion and I do not understand why he would do that if he skin is going to completly go light anyway.

To this day Mike's skin looks horrible and I stated before I know people with this condition and their skin does not look like Mike's even after the change has taken place. I think he bleached his skin and fucked himself up and the heavy clothes, hats and shades are to protect his skin from the sun due to the damage from the bleach.

I do not say these things to make fun of Mike. I really think it is sad and distrubing and goes back a long way in the African-American community.

People not being happy with being black. You have people today that go around staying out of the sun because they do not want to get any darker or they will put clothes pins on their noses.

Plastic surgery, skin bleaching and pounds of make-up or just the ways of the super rich to get out of being black. It is really sad.

Annika said:

Michael did not have full body vitiligo in 1984, and the depigmentation treatment you're describing does not take 8 years, which is roughly how long it took Michael to reach full whiteness.

And once again you are contradicting the story you and Michael have told elsewhere. You guys have always argued that Mike used make up to even out his skin. Now you're saying he chose to bleach it. Michael himself said in 1993, "As I know of, there is no such thing as skin bleaching". We now know he was lying about that. The fact is, if I hadn't mentioned that bleach was found in his possessions, you guys would still be denying he bleached his skin, as you have on so many other threads.

PatrickS77 said:

-----
take care of their own actions instead of judging somebody else, whom they do not even know!!,

We are all capable of taking care of our own actions and having an opinion at the same time. MJ is not special he does not get to go uncritized because he is MJ.

As an African-American, I find his behavior to be sad and disturbing and I am free to comment. In addition, stop using that on line encyclopedia as a reference tool since no one takes it seriously.

midnightmover said:

-----
The MJ fans are just going to ignore that the skin bleaching stuff was found amoung MJ belongings. How does one have a bottle of this bleach when one claims that know nothing of such creams or bleaches.

There are millions of vitiligo sufferers in the world. I'm unaware of any who came to appear gradually lighter bit by bit over the years like Michael did. Michael could have easily evened out any alleged blotches with BLACK make up. He didn't. He chose to lighten his overall complexion instead. That was his decision. Not mother nature's. This is really the point.

midnightmover said:

Actually, I have never denied that Michael bleaches/has bleached his skin, with or without vitiligo. That would be incredibly foolish of me, given that I do know something about dermatology. If that horse of yours wasn't quite so high, you would have notice that I in fact only commented in this thread to clear up the dramatically inaccurate statements about vitiligo suffers in general that you insisted on making (repeatedly). I never even referred to Michael.

I wish you all a happy monthly vitiligo fight.

Annika said:

Yeah, I feel we're spinning around on the vitiligo issue. Particularly since we all seem to be in agreement that the diagnosis would not be the sole reason for Michael Jackson's skin color.

laurarichardson said:

We've actually made some progress here. This is the first thread where they've actually acknowledged that he bleached his skin. In the past they've always repeated Michael's story that he only used make up to cover the blotches. At least they're beginning to admit that he was not a helpless victim of mother nature now.

btw, the chemical depigmentation process referred to in PatrickS77's post is an entirely different thing to the straight skin bleaching described earlier. This is another thing they keep contradicting themselves on.

Annika said:

By "you" I mean MJ fans in general.

PatrickS77 said:

Huh?? Weird? What is weird about that! You're younger then me, so technically you're a boy to me! You refer to Marvin Gaye as "my boy", though at the time he was 20 years older than you (at the time of his death), or would be 50 years older than you now (if he would still live) ... but whatever.. I found a site once which had listed all MJ Ebony/Jet pieces including if it was a story or interview... I just don't know anymore what it was called... thought you knew it... since you posted the Ebony stuff! Michael always kept good contact with Ebony/Jet and the Johnson family throughout the years![/quote]

Dude, that's just it. I never said "be a good boy". And when I say things like "my boy", that's a slang like saying "that's my friend" or "that's my favorite artist". Stop taking things so seriously.
[Edited 7/12/08 14:05pm]

laurarichardson said:

That was true. I was quite surprised when I saw Bennouqin (sp?) bleaching cream included as part of MJ's belongings. I actually didn't know what to believe in terms of bleaching/makeup though I do believe MJ suffers from vitiligo.

midnightmover said:

In that case you probably should have made yourself clearer, since you were replying to "my" post specifically.

Timmy84 said:

Seriously, where is the difference! In german we say this all the time "Sei ein guter Junge und tu dies und tu das" (be a good boy and do this and do that)! Nothing wrong with it! But I guess you can make anything "weird" ! Like this thread!

PatrickS77 said:

Maybe I should say "my man" then.

Yeah, I guess that would sound less disrespectful towards him!

LittleAmy said:

Indeed. The whole vitiligo thing really just obscures the point. The point is Michael chose to appear lighter. Most vitiligo sufferers just use make up to match their ORIGINAL skin tone. There are also a large proportion of cases of vitiligo that are localized and never spread beyond one or two small regions. Who knows, it's possible Michael could have had a blotch on his arm and that would technically be classified as vitiligo. We don't know, but we do know Michael did not have to appear lighter year by year if he didn't want to.
[Edited 7/12/08 14:54pm]

midnightmover said:

Is there really a time limit for when a person begins to lose a lot of pigmentation though? He started to get really light by 1983 and by 1986 was practically beige then became something of a powder ghost by 1993. I mean, how light can you get? The makeup he has used over the years hasn't helped him any really. I remember hearing jokes that Michael was auditioning for the role of "Powder".
[Edited 7/12/08 14:18pm]

I really don't know what to think of Michael anymore

LittleAmy said:

I hate it when people actually debate whether or not he's gonna die or something. That's why when people reported him in the wheelchair, a lot of the tabloid media labeled it "Jacko's Demise" or "the fading health of the former King of Pop" and all of that nonsense. Regardless he's still an important part of music history and pop culture and that'll be terrible to even get that news. Personally I want to think he's okay and healthy. That's the fan in me.