PatrickS77 said:

You can count on one hand the number of interviews Michael Jackson has done with Ebony magazine over the past 30 years. I count one in 2007, another in the mid-90s, one between the releases of "Off the Wall" and "Thriller" (circa 1981, early 1982).

PatrickS77 said:

Let me guess -- you're not black, because the issue is about MJ's self-hatred NOT ABOUT distancing himself from being around black people. Self-hatred in the context of changing his appearance because it's interesting that the central concerns black Americans have with MJ is how his appearance, his personal relationships and his "children" all seem to have the commonality of IT'S JUST BY COINCIDENCE it's Caucasian-based.

Here's a rundown of Michael's covers on EBONY over the years:

J5/Jacksons
1970 (two covers)
1971 (one cover)
1974 (one cover)
1975 (one cover)

MJ
1982 (first cover)
1983 (one cover)
1984 (one cover)
1988 (one cover)
1992 (one cover)
1994 (one cover w/LMP)
2007 (the T25 cover)

I think that's right.
[Edited 7/12/08 11:10am]

My correction, his first solo EBONY cover was in 1982 with ET.
[Edited 7/12/08 11:09am]

LittleAmy said:

Well, fact is... he didn't do much print interviews in the past 30 years. Period! But he always talked to Ebony/Jet... more than to other publications!


Well, and there goes that guess! Guess again! Are you guessing about Michael too? The original point which you agreed with was:

"Sad how a man so ashamed of being black paid a white woman to be artificially inseminated with a strangers Caucasian sperm just for the sake of having kids with no blackness in them. And people wonder why many black people didnt have his back. Why back a man whose ashamed of his race."

So with that comes the alleged distancing himself from the black community, which he factually didn't do! He always was/is/surrounds himself with black people! You said yourself that only in a time when things didn't go so well he came back to the black community... which isn't true at all, he never left! He just expanded his appeal, so to say and became a crossover artist, loved by people of all races (at least for a time)!

So IF there is a case of "self-hatred" why are you so sure that involves his race?? If I would have a hate for a (my own) race... geez, what a thought, I certainly wouldn't surround myself with exactly that race! IF there is a "self hatred", it certainly doesn't involve his race, and therefore is, although sad, his personal problem and nothing of your concern!

@Timmy
Thanks and now be a good boy and also dig up the Jet stories he did and that should prove the point that he was talking to them throughout the years!

PatrickS77 said:

"Be a good boy"? Damn, I wouldn't talk to a dog like that.

And Timmy, please do not bother posting those details, because this whole Ebony/Jet thing is one giant red herring.

PatrickS77 said:

And in the case of 2007, Michael Jackson was P.R. poison in most media, thanks to the child molestation allegations and the circus life atmopshere that is his life. He chose to go to Ebony magazine because ... well, we're not talking about the most critical form of journalism at a magazine that runs press releases as "stories." You can argue with it all you want, but the general public perception's of MJ is one of a attention-wanting, freakish-looking sexual deviant whose life is the epitome of a financial and personal mess.

P.S. Appearing on the cover of a magazine isn't the issue as much as actual interviews. It's not uncommon for Ebony, like a lot of fluff pop culture magazines, to have people on the cover of magazines and there is no actual interview but a story of P.R. releases and background information. The reality is MJ's picture may have been on those covers Timmy listed, but his actual interviews with Ebony and Jet are very few. As a former newspaper journalist, I would know that much.

PatrickS77 said:

No, I said that you have a person who has physically altered himself to where he has the appearance of someone who looks Caucasian and has children who seem to have not one trace of his African-based ancestry and is passing off as the fruit of his loins.

You may want to try twisting words somewhere else, because I never said anything about with whom MJ hangs. You also need to attribute LaCienega's words to him or her; the only thing with which I agree is that MJ's zealots will apologize for anything and everything about him, to points of outrageousness. I believe that was your fellow zealot at arms who was trying to connect MJ's "blackness" with giving an interview with Ebony.

PatrickS77 said:

I've come to realize that most non-black American people don't want or care to understand the complex nature of racism from a black American perspective (that has been proven ad nauseum on this site, via topics on the P&R board), particularly if you have no historical or socioeconomic appreciation on the subject.

"Self-hatred" in this case applies to a standard of beauty, not by sense of with whom you associate. In this case, you have a person who has too many coincidences in his life that seem to have one commonality -- Caucasian appearance as a standard of beauty. His appearance, his wives' appearances, (apparently but very likely) his children's appearances. It's not simply one thing, but several issues.
[Edited 7/12/08 12:44pm]

midnightmover said:

Yeah that was a weird comment...

But technically I can't find it because every time you google in MJ and EBONY, the 2007 cover shows up, lol.

Okay, I'm a MJ fan, but by no means a zealot. I don't believe his children are biologically his, and find it absurd that anyone would think that.

However, I DO believe he has vitiligo. There's been many pictures over the years which show a clear skin discoloration on his body.

And if you look into it, there are other cases of black people who have suffered severe vitiligo and have had their skin lightened to even their blotchy complexion. Would you want to walk about with massive pale blotches on your face? I wouldn't.

I don't believe for a second that Michael Jackson is ashamed to be black.

Timmy84 said:

.....Anyway, it's good you can't find the details because really it's irrelevant. No one here is saying Mike is allergic to black people. He just doesn't want to look like them.

MattyJam said:

I never doubted Michael Jackson had vitiligo, but I also feel he apparently had a depigmentation-type process (which was considered a form of treatment) that, like other issues, "JUST HAPPENED" to make his skin a more Caucasian-like appearance.
[Edited 7/12/08 12:49pm]

LittleAmy said:

You should doubt it. It's bullshit, and whenever you quiz the MJ fans on it, they keep contradicting themselves every two minutes.

LittleAmy said:

Well, if you have black skin and vitiligo is causing your skin to break out in pale white blotches then surely any depigmentation-type treatment would create a Caucasian-like appearance??

The desired effect is to have an even skin tone...

midnightmover said:

I'm willing to buy Michael Jackson was diagnosed with vitiligo; what I'm NOT buying is that he never did anything to his skin. I've never seen a vitiligo case to his degree without some sort of chemical-induced treatment.

midnightmover said:

You're as much of a zealot in your hatred for all things MJ as the fans releasing doves at his trial.

What makes you sadder than them is the fact that your obsession is with hating a celebrity, which says a lot about your own issues.

MattyJam said:

My point is that if Michael Jackson does have the suspected standard of beauty issues, then the consequences of the treatment would be more of a "buy-in" for going forward with it. Feel me?

LittleAmy said:

Perhaps. But I think it's incredibly offensive to presume his now Caucasian-like appearance is entirely down to vanity when he really does infact suffer from a skin disorder.

MattyJam said:

Total bullshit. I am perfectly capable of defending MJ when appropriate, but I let the EVIDENCE decide for me, and the EVIDENCE does not back up the vitiligo story. MJ fans can't even get the story straight. They keep changing the details every time you press them on it.

midnightmover said:

The numerous pictures of blotchy discoloration on his body point to vitiligo.

MattyJam said:

1.) I never debated the issue of whether Michael Jackson had vitilgo.

2.) There are a lot of complex and subconscious issues dealing with race and self-perception in the black American community. Michael Jackson is hardly exclusive of those issues; this is a man who already has acknowledged changing his features (mostly prominently, his nose) for those same reasons.

3.) I didn't say MJ was jumping up and down saying, "I'm going to be white!" like he won the lottery. I said given the conseuqences of such treatment a subconscious issue with self-esteem and his definition of beauty -- and willingness to accept those conesquences for such treatment -- can be more of a "buy-in" than even he cares to admit.

Like it or not, we have seen several major patterns in MJ's personal life to surmise he has embraced a standard of beauty that is totally different from what he originally looked like.
[Edited 7/12/08 14:02pm]

LittleAmy said:

You should read the case of one Henry Vaccaro. He sued the Jacksons for money they owed him. He was paid off with a load of their possessions from the Victory Tour including personal letters, clothes and memorablilia. Among Michael's possessions was found a half empty tube of skin bleach. Michael sued to get his items back, but his case was thrown out of court. Vaccaro put pictures of all of it online. The skin bleach Michael had was the most powerful kind.

PatrickS77 said:

-----

"vitiligo" is not a STD or some medical issue anyone should be ashamed of.
Mike could have just come out and said what was wrong. People loved MJ back in the Thriller area no one would have cared and his popularity would not have suffered. Running around looking like a ghost is not attractive and it was the begining of his problems with his public image.

But I do not believe he has "vitiligo"

Of course Mike works with black people and no one is saying he would not. You have card carrying members of the KKK who work with black people to it does not mean they want to work with black they just have to.

and no I am not comparing Mike to someone in the KKK but everybody has to make a living and it would be hard to totally exclude a race of people from your domain.

"He never went away... "

Mike went away from the black community when he bleached his skin. Once he was accussed of moslesting children that pop audience he sought was done with him.

Once again employing black people and working with other blacks has nothing to do with self hatred.

I am not even going to waste my time discussing MJ and those kids anymore. The only people who think those are Mike's biological children are delusional MJ fans and if Mike wanted to find a woman to have his kids or just wanted children with black features trust me he could have found a sister if he wanted to. He just did not want to.

midnightmover said:

That doesn't refute that he has vitiligo. It just means he's tried to cover it up.

TotalAlisa said:

-----
Good for you. Glad to see an MJ fan that admits.

MattyJam said:

How comes ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ever noticed these pictures at the time? No one noticed them because there were no patches. MJ fans will often post pictures showing nothing but light reflecting off his skin and claim the light is vitiligo.

MattyJam said:

-----
No it means he bleached his skin. Which is just insane with or without a skin condition.

midnightmover said:

Having a conversation with you is like talking to a two year old...

MattyJam said:

I was going to say the same thing. But like I said, even if Michael Jackson was diagnosed with vitiligo it's not the only reason his skin color is the way it is. We all agree vitiligo creates pink- or white-like blotches on the skin, not make people have completely uniform, beige-like skin tone.

laurarichardson said:

Maybe he chose to bleach his skin to even out his complexion due to the vitiligo? Who knows?

Sane or not, who are you to categorically state he doesn't have this disorder?

MattyJam said:

I didn't say make up. I said skin bleach. Vitiligo sufferers do not bleach their own skin. Make yourself clear. What exactly do you think Michael was doing. Be specific.

midnightmover said:

That's a ridiculous comment.

Anybody can bleach their skin. Including vitiligo sufferers. Is it insane? Probably. But the fact that he may have bleached his skin still doesn't prove anything about whether or not he has vitiligo....