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Printablemidnightmover said: lastdecember said: The thing is U cant have this both ways. You can take anyone from that day and they ALL benefited from Mtv, and as it was said before, they are all good artists and made very different kinds of music. I mean my favorite band of the last 25 years a-Ha benefited from a stupid comic book drawn video that they didnt want any part of, now they are a great band, but had it not been for that groundbreaking video, would they have broken through internationally and been able to maintain stature to continue internationally now? most likely no. Same goes for Duran Duran, i mean GREAT band but never would have made it without videos, Michael? well he already had the Jacksons fame, but LETS be real, those "thriller" videos and the visuals of seeing him lighting up the street squares and the glove etc...that album would have never been the seller it was without video. I totally understand susanna and love her to death, but she has to realize, she too, made it because of video. Thats not saying its reight or wrong, and the acts back then were more UNIQUE than today, but, whats it gonna be? I understand the problem with all about being IMAGE today, but lets face it, themergers of labels and everything caused this, and MTV was part of it, which Susanna and Madonna and the others were very quick to help build up in the day.
The Bangles definitely benefited from the visual aspect too, but they were always uncomfortable with it. They went along with it, but that doesn't mean you can't resent it too, particularly if you grew up simply loving music, and spent years playing in bands before you got famous. People forget sometimes that the Bangles were/are a real band. They're not just posing with those instruments. They're really playing them. They write 95% of their material too. Plus, if you grew up idolizing women like Joni, Bonnie Raitt and Chrissie Hynde, it's gotta come as a disappointment when you see The Spice Girls and Britney being celebrated and so few females of any substance breaking through. I think it's a plain fact that the music would be much better if there were less emphasis on the visuals, although of course, it's ironic coming from someone as good looking as Hoffs. But hey, she can't help being good looking, can she? No i agree, there are lots of bands that had issue with it, HEART is a great example of it, they were even against alot of the "outside writers" brought in that were the hitmakers of the day to help get them hits. But Heart clearly had issues with image, i mean it was so bad with them that the guys in heart wanted them not to show Ann Wilson on camera because of her weight, they would go behind the wilson sisters back to execs and try to get them to only film her face and nothing else, and they went along with it, thats why Nancy and Ann broke away and fired those members. MTV was a monster that was created and it could have been contained, but like any other thing it was abused and milked for all its worth and now, strangely enough is meaningless, but thats because MUSIC itself has been taken out of its own relevance. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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It's much easier to find an unflattering picture of Madonna than Susanna Hoffs because the tabloids follow Madonna everywhere she goes. If you take enough pictures of anyone, you are bound to get some that are unflattering.
The tabloids take pictures of Madonna when she is just walking to the gym when she has no makeup on. I'm sure if you took pictures of Susanna when she has no makeup on and just got up of out bed, she wouldn't look so great either. But the only time the press photographs Susanna is when she's at a red carpet event and is all made up. So it's completely unfair to compare a picture of Madonna with no makeup and Susanna with tons of makeup. | |
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Glindathegood said: It's much easier to find an unflattering picture of Madonna than Susanna Hoffs because the tabloids follow Madonna everywhere she goes. If you take enough pictures of anyone, you are bound to get some that are unflattering.
The tabloids take pictures of Madonna when she is just walking to the gym when she has no makeup on. I'm sure if you took pictures of Susanna when she has no makeup on and just got up of out bed, she wouldn't look so great either. But the only time the press photographs Susanna is when she's at a red carpet event and is all made up. So it's completely unfair to compare a picture of Madonna with no makeup and Susanna with tons of makeup. The reason I selected the last picture of Susanna is because she's wearing virtually no make up and it's in broad daylight. She's done dozens of concerts with very little make up on, and the photos all come out good. She's ageing, but she's ageing gracefully. Unlike Madonna she looks natural and appears to be untouched by the surgeon's hand. Even Madonna's official photographs nowadays look very, very bad, like the cover of Vanity Fair for instance. Susanna is simply better looking. I don't know why you guys find it so difficult to admit that.  “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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Glindathegood said: It's much easier to find an unflattering picture of Madonna than Susanna Hoffs because the tabloids follow Madonna everywhere she goes. If you take enough pictures of anyone, you are bound to get some that are unflattering.
The tabloids take pictures of Madonna when she is just walking to the gym when she has no makeup on. I'm sure if you took pictures of Susanna when she has no makeup on and just got up of out bed, she wouldn't look so great either. But the only time the press photographs Susanna is when she's at a red carpet event and is all made up. That first picture of Madonna that midnightmover posted looked like a picture taken at an awards show/red carpet setting. | |
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midnightmover said: NOTE TO MADONNA FANS: Please do not turn this thread into a photo war, because that is a battle you CANNOT WIN!
 So let this be the end of the matter...
Like I said before, case closed. Thank you. I was referring to this set of pictures. Clearly Madonna has no makeup and is dressed casually while Susanna has makeup and is dressed up. On the one hand, Susanna's point was woman singers shouldn't be judged on how they look. Yet you are doing exactly that by saying Madonna looks bad. Your hatred of Madonna is really tiresome. What has she actually done to anyone, to make music that makes people dance! It's bad for a person's soul to spend so much time hating another human being and trying to make them look bad. | |
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Glindathegood said: midnightmover said: NOTE TO MADONNA FANS: Please do not turn this thread into a photo war, because that is a battle you CANNOT WIN!
So let this be the end of the matter...
Like I said before, case closed. Thank you. I was referring to this set of pictures. Clearly Madonna has no makeup and is dressed casually while Susanna has makeup and is dressed up. On the one hand, Susanna's point was woman singers shouldn't be judged on how they look. Yet you are doing exactly that by saying Madonna looks bad. Your hatred of Madonna is really tiresome. What has she actually done to anyone, to make music that makes people dance! It's bad for a person's soul to spend so much time hating another human being and trying to make them look bad. Your concern for my soul touches me, but let me worry about that, huh? All I'm saying is Susanna is not jealous of Madonna's looks as was claimed earlier. But I think the point has been established by now, so we can let it go. [Edited 7/11/08 17:12pm] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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Apples to apples and oranges to oranges, I still say Susanna is lovelier. But beauty, eye, beholder, et cetera. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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I'm glad some of the earlier posts mentioned Hoffs' "The Allnighter," a movie that had far more in common with Madonna & Paris Hilton than, say, a cinematic interpretation of "Little Women."
I think Susanna's songwriting chops are far more awesome, even when she's doing something "fun" like the Austin Powers soundtracks. But, she's coming off a little bitter and petty here. | |
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Glindathegood said: midnightmover said: NOTE TO MADONNA FANS: Please do not turn this thread into a photo war, because that is a battle you CANNOT WIN!
So let this be the end of the matter...
Like I said before, case closed. Thank you. I was referring to this set of pictures. Clearly Madonna has no makeup and is dressed casually while Susanna has makeup and is dressed up. Well, it's not the only picture of Madonna that midnighmover has posted. It's like you practically ignored the sets of photos that came up before this one. | |
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This is funny. Has there ever been a conversation about The Bangles that doesn't eventually revolve to how good looking Susannah Hoffs is?? She has traded off her looks waaay more than Madonna. Good for her, but she shouldn't criticize other people for something that she is just as guilty of, if not more. | |
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ThreadBare said: I'm glad some of the earlier posts mentioned Hoffs' "The Allnighter," a movie that had far more in common with Madonna & Paris Hilton than, say, a cinematic interpretation of "Little Women."
I think Susanna's songwriting chops are far more awesome, even when she's doing something "fun" like the Austin Powers soundtracks. But, she's coming off a little bitter and petty here. Why when an older woman says anything critical are they ALWAYS called "bitter"? She was talking about this when she was young too. Was she bitter then? And there is nothing "petty" about this issue either. For the record, Susanna has said nice things about Madonna before. She was probably just using Madonna as a marker here of when the over-sexualization of women in music began, rather than blaming her for it. This is after all, just a quote from an interview. It's not like she sat down and wrote an essay about it. Back in the day, her fellow bandmate Vicki Peterson made some very critical comments of Madge, but Susanna was always complimentary. Here's what Vicki said in 1988. "Madonna's ridiculous. Her success seems to be based on how many clothes she's able to take off". Now, that's a real diss.  “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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midnightmover said: ThreadBare said: I'm glad some of the earlier posts mentioned Hoffs' "The Allnighter," a movie that had far more in common with Madonna & Paris Hilton than, say, a cinematic interpretation of "Little Women."
I think Susanna's songwriting chops are far more awesome, even when she's doing something "fun" like the Austin Powers soundtracks. But, she's coming off a little bitter and petty here. Why when an older woman says anything critical are they ALWAYS called "bitter"? She was talking about this when she was young too. Was she bitter then? And there is nothing "petty" about this issue either. For the record, Susanna has said nice things about Madonna before. She was probably just using Madonna as a marker here of when the over-sexualization of women in music began, rather than blaming her for it. This is after all, just a quote from an interview. It's not like she sat down and wrote an essay about it. Back in the day, her fellow bandmate Vicki Peterson made some very critical comments of Madge, but Susanna was always complimentary. Here's what Vicki said in 1988. "Madonna's ridiculous. Her success seems to be based on how many clothes she's able to take off". Now, that's a real diss. I think it's a pretty spot-on comment about Madonna's image back then. The other Bangles members, if you're to believe "Behind the Music," had some issues with SH being deemed the pretty little lead singer. But it's an image that was played up. Hoffs never published a nude book of herself, but she definitely played up an image of herself that focused on her looks and little cutesy voice. It wasn't until I heard her soundtrack work that I realized she had some actual talent going on. | |
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midnightmover said: ThreadBare said: I'm glad some of the earlier posts mentioned Hoffs' "The Allnighter," a movie that had far more in common with Madonna & Paris Hilton than, say, a cinematic interpretation of "Little Women."
I think Susanna's songwriting chops are far more awesome, even when she's doing something "fun" like the Austin Powers soundtracks. But, she's coming off a little bitter and petty here. Why when an older woman says anything critical are they ALWAYS called "bitter"? She was talking about this when she was young too. Was she bitter then? And there is nothing "petty" about this issue either. For the record, Susanna has said nice things about Madonna before. She was probably just using Madonna as a marker here of when the over-sexualization of women in music began, rather than blaming her for it. This is after all, just a quote from an interview. It's not like she sat down and wrote an essay about it. Back in the day, her fellow bandmate Vicki Peterson made some very critical comments of Madge, but Susanna was always complimentary. Here's what Vicki said in 1988. "Madonna's ridiculous. Her success seems to be based on how many clothes she's able to take off". Now, that's a real diss. True i think that people are overracting to this like its some kind of feud or east coast vs west coast thing. Its a statement that rings true, but here is the way im sure she is saying it. She is pointing out that labels tend to now focus on what they can sell "imagewise" as opposed to sheer talent, which they could sell back in the day. She isnt saying "madonna has no talent" now that would be absurd, but she is saying that the image that madonna has/had of being more free/open/sexual has "showed" labels that WOMEN are the big sellers and labels are gonna keep copying that easy sell by using their looks to get them out there. Look its so easy now to get someone out there if they look good, i mean i spoke to someone at Universal the other day and you know what upcoming release they are putting big $$$ into more than anything, HEIDI MONTAG that chick from the Hills!! WHY? well because its an easy sell, they already own all the media, her and that dorky boyfriend are in the news everyday like they matter in life, so why bother signing someone that might not sell till their 5th or 6th album, like every 80's band did, and go for the quick sell, the sound byte, the chewing gum factor. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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The Bangles NAMED THEMSELVES after a female fashion accessory - but it was MADONNA who took the emphasis away from the music and put it on fashion? Say what??? | |
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freshyface said: The Bangles NAMED THEMSELVES after a female fashion accessory - but it was MADONNA who took the emphasis away from the music and put it on fashion? Say what???
Actually for the record they named themselves after the "BEATLES" because of their 60's sound which was most prevelant over their ep, and their fist album "all over the place", the Beatles were always mentioned in their early interviews when asked about influence and why they chose the name. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: midnightmover said: Why when an older woman says anything critical are they ALWAYS called "bitter"? She was talking about this when she was young too. Was she bitter then? And there is nothing "petty" about this issue either. For the record, Susanna has said nice things about Madonna before. She was probably just using Madonna as a marker here of when the over-sexualization of women in music began, rather than blaming her for it. This is after all, just a quote from an interview. It's not like she sat down and wrote an essay about it. Back in the day, her fellow bandmate Vicki Peterson made some very critical comments of Madge, but Susanna was always complimentary. Here's what Vicki said in 1988. "Madonna's ridiculous. Her success seems to be based on how many clothes she's able to take off". Now, that's a real diss. True i think that people are overracting to this like its some kind of feud or east coast vs west coast thing. Its a statement that rings true, but here is the way im sure she is saying it. She is pointing out that labels tend to now focus on what they can sell "imagewise" as opposed to sheer talent, which they could sell back in the day. She isnt saying "madonna has no talent" now that would be absurd, but she is saying that the image that madonna has/had of being more free/open/sexual has "showed" labels that WOMEN are the big sellers and labels are gonna keep copying that easy sell by using their looks to get them out there. Look its so easy now to get someone out there if they look good, i mean i spoke to someone at Universal the other day and you know what upcoming release they are putting big $$$ into more than anything, HEIDI MONTAG that chick from the Hills!! WHY? well because its an easy sell, they already own all the media, her and that dorky boyfriend are in the news everyday like they matter in life, so why bother signing someone that might not sell till their 5th or 6th album, like every 80's band did, and go for the quick sell, the sound byte, the chewing gum factor. I think that's a good example, but none of that is new. It's been going on for years. Advances in technology and consolidation of ownership now merely speed up the process. | |
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Sheena Easton IS TALENTED - you idiot. She can actually SING. Why don't you get your hearing tested.
superspaceboy said: ehuffnsd said: prince only hooked up with woman who were talentd I disagree. I think he hooked up with women he thought were talented. I never thought Vanity, Carmen, nor Mayte were very talented...at least not musically. Sheena Easton was hardly talented either. |
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lastdecember said: freshyface said: The Bangles NAMED THEMSELVES after a female fashion accessory - but it was MADONNA who took the emphasis away from the music and put it on fashion? Say what???
Actually for the record they named themselves after the "BEATLES" because of their 60's sound which was most prevelant over their ep, and their fist album "all over the place", the Beatles were always mentioned in their early interviews when asked about influence and why they chose the name. That's part of the story, but actually there's a bit more to it. They were originally called The Bangs, but they were threatened with a lawsuit by another band who had the same name. They didn't want to totally change the name so they just added three letters and it became The Bangles. They liked it because, as you said, it sounded like their heroes The Beatles, but they only changed the name because they'd have been sued otherwise. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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She still looks GREAT!!!! Prime aka The Kid
"I need u to dance, I need u to strip I need u to shake Ur lil' ass n hips I need u to grind like Ur working for tips And give me what I need while we listen to PRINCE" | |
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Rorywan said:   | |
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One thing that must disappoint Susanna and the Bangles is the fact that no girl bands (as opposed to groups) have arisen to prominence in the twenty years since they broke up (they reunited in the '00s). When they emerged in the '80s they were seen as something of a novelty for being able to play guitars and have breasts at the same time. This left many people dumbfounded. There had been a handful of girl bands before, but they'd never been that successful. You would have thought as the years went by it would get more common, but quite the contrary, it actually seems to have gotten more rare. Surely part of the reason for this is the influence of the various pop tarts of which Madonna is the spiritual godmother. This may have partly motivated Susanna's comments. Why do so few girls pick up instruments? Things have advanced so much in other ways, but in this area, we seem to have gone backwards.“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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midnightmover said: One thing that must disappoint Susanna and the Bangles is the fact that no girl bands (as opposed to groups) have arisen to prominence in the twenty years since they broke up (they reunited in the '00s). When they emerged in the '80s they were seen as something of a novelty for being able to play guitars and have breasts at the same time. This left many people dumbfounded.
There had been a handful of girl bands before, but they'd never been that successful. You would have thought as the years went by it would get more common, but quite the contrary, it actually seems to have gotten more rare. Surely part of the reason for this is the influence of the various pop tarts of which Madonna is the spiritual godmother. This may have partly motivated Susanna's comments. Why do so few girls pick up instruments? Things have advanced so much in other ways, but in this area, we seem to have gone backwards.i think there is a lot of validity in this statement. it's a lot like the r&b music i grew up listening to and the current state of r&b today. it's the same sort of thing; why is there less diversity and progress? part of it has to do with image over talent. i think of some of my favorite groups and singers from back in the day, and know they would never, ever make it now. Not good looking enough. As others have stated, madonna is not solely to blame, but she's entitled to her fair share. | |
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kibbles said: midnightmover said: One thing that must disappoint Susanna and the Bangles is the fact that no girl bands (as opposed to groups) have arisen to prominence in the twenty years since they broke up (they reunited in the '00s). When they emerged in the '80s they were seen as something of a novelty for being able to play guitars and have breasts at the same time. This left many people dumbfounded.
There had been a handful of girl bands before, but they'd never been that successful. You would have thought as the years went by it would get more common, but quite the contrary, it actually seems to have gotten more rare. Surely part of the reason for this is the influence of the various pop tarts of which Madonna is the spiritual godmother. This may have partly motivated Susanna's comments. Why do so few girls pick up instruments? Things have advanced so much in other ways, but in this area, we seem to have gone backwards.i think there is a lot of validity in this statement. it's a lot like the r&b music i grew up listening to and the current state of r&b today. it's the same sort of thing; why is there less diversity and progress? part of it has to do with image over talent. i think of some of my favorite groups and singers from back in the day, and know they would never, ever make it now. Not good looking enough. As others have stated, madonna is not solely to blame, but she's entitled to her fair share.  “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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