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Thread started 07/07/08 7:32pm

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Who do you think was the greatest jazz musician ever?

For me its miles davis the reason is he made albums Ive listened to over and over again ie a kind of blue and Im not really into jazz anybody who can do that is for me the best there is. How about you who do you think is the best and what are your reasons?
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Reply #1 posted 07/07/08 7:33pm

luv4u

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This guy is one to watch out for. Love his music http://www.dkibomeka.com/
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Reply #2 posted 07/07/08 8:48pm

jacktheimprovi
dent

well, of course, quantifying art is subjective, and there's sometimes a subtle distinction between "who I think is the best" and "who I like the most". But a few candidates I would name.

Duke Ellington-Most consider him jazz's most accomplished and prolific composer and certainly he's one of the best of the big band era. Also he was a great pianist, although not a technical virtuoso. He had a major knack for assembling and channeling the abilities of large ensembles of musicians and making their talents work in the framework of his compositions. He remained pretty inventive and productive up until his last days and even managed to adapt to newer movements in jazz like bop and even avant-garde better than just about any other musician of his era.

miles davis-probably pioneered or catalized every major post-swing movement in jazz in some direct or indirect way. Was also very prolific and productive up until his last days. Like ellington, was a great player despite not being the most able technician on his instrument and was great at putting together and focusing extremely talented groups although was not particularly distinguished as a composer (at least nowhere near to the same extent as ellington, monk, mingus etc.). Nearly every significant figure in jazz since the 40s worked with or was connected to Miles Davis in some way.

Charles Mingus-Proficient on bass and piano, wrote compositions that could be very progressive or retro, or both at the same time; sometimes bordering on avant-garde, sometimes harkening back to the earliest Dixieland days of Jazz, sometimes both. Also a great cultivator of talent like miles And duke. personally, the first major jazz musician outside of Miles and Trane that I got into, and probably THE artist that got me seriously into album collecting.

John Coltrane-Probably among the most intense musicians of jazz or any other genre, still one of the few artists whose overall sound I can almost never get tired of. Could be achingly beautiful and lyrical or abrasively dissonant and atonal or both in the same piece. Probably the best example of a jazz musician whose music transcends genre and era as rock musicians, modern classical composers and even hip-hoppers have all cited him as an inspiration.

Sam Rivers-Highly skilled on Saxophone, flute, clarinet, and piano, and simultaneously incorporates intricately arranged, layered composing with the most "free" improvisation seamlessly. One of the absolute best at making "free jazz" as accessible as any other style without watering it down, and also probably made some of the funkiest non-electric jazz.

Jaki byard-Possibly the most accomplished multi-instrumentalist in jazz. As a pianist alone he was among the most technically proficient and stylistically versatile, and also more than competant on saxophone, trumpet, vibes and drums. although primarily known as a great player, also a distinctive composer.

Fats Waller-Although Seen as primarily a kitchy entertainer, was also a superb artist. In terms of recordings, possibly the most prolific of his era, and in terms of compositions probably right next to ellington. Possibly the most accomplished early jazz pianist next to Earl Hines and Art Tatum, But was a greater showman than, well, just about anyone i can think of in jazz. A dearth of people like fats is probably the reason why jazz since the big band era has become much more "art" than "entertainment": Fats was a great example of how one could be great at both simultaneously.

Louis Armstrong-Possibly single-handedly defined jazz as a genre more than anyone else and certainly the person who did the most to make soloists the focus of jazz. Also a great entertainer who ignored the distinction between art and fun like it wasn't there and of perhaps more universally loved and revered by fellow jazz musicians than anyone else.

Some personal favs who are great and possible candidates but I don't feel like writing a paragraph about: Sun Ra, Pharoah Sanders, Archie Shepp, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Oscar Peterson.
[Edited 7/7/08 20:50pm]
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Reply #3 posted 07/07/08 9:03pm

IAintTheOne

Trane
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Reply #4 posted 07/07/08 9:12pm

novabrkr

"Was"? eek

Okay, Coltrane then. For the reason that he never got to sellout himself in the 80s like the other classic names did. wink
[Edited 7/7/08 21:13pm]
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Reply #5 posted 07/07/08 10:28pm

FuNkeNsteiN

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Not necessarily the 'greatest', but some of my favorites...





It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.

- Lammastide
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Reply #6 posted 07/07/08 11:55pm

mynameisnotsus
an

jacktheimprovident said:


Louis Armstrong-Possibly single-handedly defined jazz as a genre more than anyone else and certainly the person who did the most to make soloists the focus of jazz. Also a great entertainer who ignored the distinction between art and fun like it wasn't there and of perhaps more universally loved and revered by fellow jazz musicians than anyone else.



Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! His influence is astounding, not just instrumentally but vocally as well.
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Reply #7 posted 07/08/08 12:34am

BlaqueKnight

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Prince.








falloff
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Reply #8 posted 07/08/08 5:31am

paligap

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mynameisnotsusan said:

jacktheimprovident said:


Louis Armstrong-Possibly single-handedly defined jazz as a genre more than anyone else and certainly the person who did the most to make soloists the focus of jazz. Also a great entertainer who ignored the distinction between art and fun like it wasn't there and of perhaps more universally loved and revered by fellow jazz musicians than anyone else.



Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! His influence is astounding, not just instrumentally but vocally as well.



I agree --So many come to mind, but if I had to pick one, it'd have to be Louis....






...
" I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout
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Reply #9 posted 07/08/08 7:15am

chewwsey

FuNkeNsteiN said:

Not necessarily the 'greatest', but some of my favorites...









well said, I don't know, sometimes I get confused about george duke. herbie could do it all. stanley was an interesting piece.
nipsy
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Reply #10 posted 07/08/08 7:16am

Graycap23

Don't dig jazz but I'd go with George Duke.
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Reply #11 posted 07/08/08 7:21am

namepeace

Duke Ellington is likely first among equals in jazz. Ellington's work was the I wanted to explore in jazz, and even though others are my favorites now, I associated his name with jazz first, for very good reason. And I think that's very common.
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #12 posted 07/08/08 8:00am

Giovanni777

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jacktheimprovident said:

well, of course, quantifying art is subjective, and there's sometimes a subtle distinction between "who I think is the best" and "who I like the most". But a few candidates I would name.

Duke Ellington-Most consider him jazz's most accomplished and prolific composer and certainly he's one of the best of the big band era. Also he was a great pianist, although not a technical virtuoso. He had a major knack for assembling and channeling the abilities of large ensembles of musicians and making their talents work in the framework of his compositions. He remained pretty inventive and productive up until his last days and even managed to adapt to newer movements in jazz like bop and even avant-garde better than just about any other musician of his era.

miles davis-probably pioneered or catalized every major post-swing movement in jazz in some direct or indirect way. Was also very prolific and productive up until his last days. Like ellington, was a great player despite not being the most able technician on his instrument and was great at putting together and focusing extremely talented groups although was not particularly distinguished as a composer (at least nowhere near to the same extent as ellington, monk, mingus etc.). Nearly every significant figure in jazz since the 40s worked with or was connected to Miles Davis in some way.

Charles Mingus-Proficient on bass and piano, wrote compositions that could be very progressive or retro, or both at the same time; sometimes bordering on avant-garde, sometimes harkening back to the earliest Dixieland days of Jazz, sometimes both. Also a great cultivator of talent like miles And duke. personally, the first major jazz musician outside of Miles and Trane that I got into, and probably THE artist that got me seriously into album collecting.

John Coltrane-Probably among the most intense musicians of jazz or any other genre, still one of the few artists whose overall sound I can almost never get tired of. Could be achingly beautiful and lyrical or abrasively dissonant and atonal or both in the same piece. Probably the best example of a jazz musician whose music transcends genre and era as rock musicians, modern classical composers and even hip-hoppers have all cited him as an inspiration.

Sam Rivers-Highly skilled on Saxophone, flute, clarinet, and piano, and simultaneously incorporates intricately arranged, layered composing with the most "free" improvisation seamlessly. One of the absolute best at making "free jazz" as accessible as any other style without watering it down, and also probably made some of the funkiest non-electric jazz.

Jaki byard-Possibly the most accomplished multi-instrumentalist in jazz. As a pianist alone he was among the most technically proficient and stylistically versatile, and also more than competant on saxophone, trumpet, vibes and drums. although primarily known as a great player, also a distinctive composer.

Fats Waller-Although Seen as primarily a kitchy entertainer, was also a superb artist. In terms of recordings, possibly the most prolific of his era, and in terms of compositions probably right next to ellington. Possibly the most accomplished early jazz pianist next to Earl Hines and Art Tatum, But was a greater showman than, well, just about anyone i can think of in jazz. A dearth of people like fats is probably the reason why jazz since the big band era has become much more "art" than "entertainment": Fats was a great example of how one could be great at both simultaneously.

Louis Armstrong-Possibly single-handedly defined jazz as a genre more than anyone else and certainly the person who did the most to make soloists the focus of jazz. Also a great entertainer who ignored the distinction between art and fun like it wasn't there and of perhaps more universally loved and revered by fellow jazz musicians than anyone else.

Some personal favs who are great and possible candidates but I don't feel like writing a paragraph about: Sun Ra, Pharoah Sanders, Archie Shepp, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Oscar Peterson.
[Edited 7/7/08 20:50pm]


Wow. On point, and well written!

Others 2 consider:

PIANO:

Oscar Peterson

Art Tatum

McCoy Tyner

Count Basie

Bud Powell

Thelonius Monk

BASS:

Charlie Haden

Ron Carter

Ray Brown

GUITAR:

Django Reinhardt

Charlie Christian

Wes Montgomery

Joe Pass

Jim Hall

Hank Garland

DRUMS:

Buddy Rich

Gene Krupa

Elvin Jones

Max Roach

Tony Williams

Art Blakey

Billy Cobham

SAX:

Coleman Hawkins

Ornette Coleman

Archie Schepp

Charlie Parker

Lester Young

TRUMPET:

Dizzy Gillespie

Freddie Hubbard

Donald Byrd

Lee Morgan

Harry James

Nick LaRocca (who influenced Louis Armstrong and Bix Beiderbecke!)

A serious mention of Cab Calloway MUST be made, although he was primarily a singer/bandleader.
[Edited 7/8/08 8:03am]
"He's a musician's musician..."
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Reply #13 posted 07/08/08 8:03am

Graycap23

Wish I could get into jazz. There is so much out there.
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Reply #14 posted 07/08/08 8:07am

LittleAmy

1.) Louis Armstrong
2.) Duke Ellington
3.) Miles Davis
4.) John Coltrane
5.) Dizzy Gillespie
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Reply #15 posted 07/08/08 10:06am

Giovanni777

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Not 2 many jazz heads up in here, it seems!

confused
"He's a musician's musician..."
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Reply #16 posted 07/08/08 10:10am

Empress

I can't say that these people are the best, but I do love the following

Chet Baker - Trumpet
Art Tatum - Piano
Charlie Parker - Sax
Louis Armstrong - just for being Louis.
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Reply #17 posted 07/08/08 10:17am

Giovanni777

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Empress said:

I can't say that these people are the best, but I do love the following

Chet Baker - Trumpet
Art Tatum - Piano
Charlie Parker - Sax
Louis Armstrong - just for being Louis.


Damn, I forgot 2 list Chet Baker. Right on.
"He's a musician's musician..."
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Reply #18 posted 07/08/08 10:30am

TonyVanDam

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Herbie Hancock & Chick Corea are two of the greatest jazz musicians that are still alive and well. Almost 5 decades of jazz, funk, rock, fusion (jazz, funk, & rock mix together) & electronic between them. And these 2 men can play a synthesizer equally as great as they can play a grand piano. cool
[Edited 7/8/08 10:33am]
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Reply #19 posted 07/08/08 10:52am

NDRU

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I can't say one person did it all, but given my limited knowledge I say...

Miles Davis in terms of artistry ie. style making & albums
John Coltrane in terms of playing an instrument
Louis Armstrong in terms of pioneering the art
Duke Ellington in terms of elevating the form to high art
Kenny G for making a mockery of the whole damn thing

I guess I'd have to pick Miles Davis for longevity, and for being influential & popular on so many levels.
[Edited 7/8/08 14:37pm]
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Reply #20 posted 07/08/08 10:55am

namepeace

Giovanni777 said:

Not 2 many jazz heads up in here, it seems!

confused


Well, now, I wouldn't say that. the orger Miles is one of the most knowledgeable and hasn't weighed in yet.

As for pianists, I'd put a word in for Horace Silver, and on sax, Wayne Shorter.
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #21 posted 07/08/08 10:57am

NDRU

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I don't know where Monk fits in. He seems to occupy his own universe. Weirdest melodies ever written.
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Reply #22 posted 07/08/08 11:25am

dyami12

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Miles Davis..crazy ass hell..but the best in my eyes.
..In her chills, I'll force a burst..Erotic thrills, so good, it hurts..My motions 2 her velvet, she'll strike it as love..Rain from her pelvis..ended with doves..
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Reply #23 posted 07/08/08 2:21pm

Miles

NDRU said:

I don't know where Monk fits in. He seems to occupy his own universe. Weirdest melodies ever written.


Yeah, Monk was a unique artist, but where he 'fits in' is pretty clear to me. smile He came out of the stride tradition, also hung around with a lot of gospel, blues and immigrant Caribbean musicians in his youth, and was heavily influenced by Ellington.

Monk himself was an important influence on the origins and development of 'be bop' in his role at the Minton's Playhouse crowd as 'house pianist' there from IIRC 1940-42-ish; especially Charlie Parker (who styled some of his more rhythmically 'out there' phrasings after Monk, like when he plays 'beyond the bar' [musically speaking biggrin ], and spoke of the debt he owed to Monk), Miles Davis (who I'd say got some of his phrasing and sense of 'space' in his playing from Monk among others) and Coltrane (who studied under Thelonius in a sabbatical from Miles' band in the late '50s).

So, strangely, Monk is at the same time a maverick outsider and yet at the heart of the jazz tradition smile cool

Monk's one of my main men. When you watch the live footage, the man GETS DOWN lol cool
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Reply #24 posted 07/08/08 2:32pm

NDRU

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Miles said:

NDRU said:

I don't know where Monk fits in. He seems to occupy his own universe. Weirdest melodies ever written.


Yeah, Monk was a unique artist, but where he 'fits in' is pretty clear to me. smile He came out of the stride tradition, also hung around with a lot of gospel, blues and immigrant Caribbean musicians in his youth, and was heavily influenced by Ellington.

Monk himself was an important influence on the origins and development of 'be bop' in his role at the Minton's Playhouse crowd as 'house pianist' there from IIRC 1940-42-ish; especially Charlie Parker (who styled some of his more rhythmically 'out there' phrasings after Monk, like when he plays 'beyond the bar' [musically speaking biggrin ], and spoke of the debt he owed to Monk), Miles Davis (who I'd say got some of his phrasing and sense of 'space' in his playing from Monk among others) and Coltrane (who studied under Thelonius in a sabbatical from Miles' band in the late '50s).

So, strangely, Monk is at the same time a maverick outsider and yet at the heart of the jazz tradition smile cool

Monk's one of my main men. When you watch the live footage, the man GETS DOWN lol cool


well said
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Reply #25 posted 07/08/08 2:35pm

theAudience

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There is no greatest...

Louis Armstrong - for pointing the way by giving improv a voice
Duke Ellington - for elegantly showing how the tools are used via composition
John Coltrane - for fearlessly stepping into the abyss
Miles Davis - for understanding that time doesn't stand still

...but quite a few great ones (just a few listed here).



tA

peace Tribal Disorder

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[Edited 7/8/08 14:36pm]
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Reply #26 posted 07/08/08 2:38pm

Miles

mynameisnotsusan said:

jacktheimprovident said:


Louis Armstrong-Possibly single-handedly defined jazz as a genre more than anyone else and certainly the person who did the most to make soloists the focus of jazz. Also a great entertainer who ignored the distinction between art and fun like it wasn't there and of perhaps more universally loved and revered by fellow jazz musicians than anyone else.



Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! His influence is astounding, not just instrumentally but vocally as well.


Yep. For me, Pops is the one and only winner of this thread. I would defy anybody to name a jazz artist after Louis who wasn't in some way touched by his style - trumpet and/ or vocal, or influenced by someone whose ears were soaked in Louis' music at some earlier time.

Duke Ellington hired Cootie Williams and Bubber Miley to get that 'Louis sound' in his early band, Bix Beiderbeck worshipped Louis and jammed with him in private, vocalists as diverse as Billie Holiday and Bing Crosby borrowed and adapted his vocal phrasing style. Almost every jazz musician from 1928 - 1940 either copied Louis Armstrong in some way or developed their styles in reaction to Louis Armstrong's existence/ influence. Back then, you weren't 'jazz' if you couldn't hear Mr Armstrong somewhere in your sound.

The man was a titan of music. Imo the single most important American musician of the 20th century.

Also respect is due to the so far unmentioned self-styled 'Inventor of Jazz', MR Jellyroll Morton; after Louis, Duke and Fletcher Henderson, 'Mr Jelly Lord' was perhaps the most important early jazz artist/ composer/ arranger to have recorded. I would have loved to have met the man, tho I wouldn't necessarily believe everything that came out of his mouth! biggrin cool.
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Reply #27 posted 07/08/08 2:58pm

theAudience

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NDRU said:

Weirdest melodies ever written.

Funny...







...this melody makes perfect sense to me. lol



tA

peace Tribal Disorder

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"Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all."
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Reply #28 posted 07/08/08 3:04pm

NDRU

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Actually I think Monk is one of the great composers of melody.

there was often something off, but in a good way. He could make something as simple as this sound weird.

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Reply #29 posted 07/08/08 3:10pm

NDRU

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But this is what I think of when I say weird (forgive the performer, I couldn't find a very good example lol Still I'm impressed he can play it!


[Edited 7/8/08 15:10pm]
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