guitarslinger44 said:

Am I typing backwards?....lol...I said I was commenting on a statement someone made about New Edition not having enough crossover history for the 'white" rock establishment for them to get in the Hall...

And I'm not patronizing u homie...I'm saying u made a silly statement by comparing N'Sync to Jodeci...A very silly and uninformed statement...And yeah, J5 was more influential overall...Who said they weren't?

murph said:

lol...the mere fact that Madonna is there, means I don't take the Hall seriously. They should just let everyone in.

I wanna know when the movie is coming out!!?>?!?!?!?!?

paisleypark4 said:

They're still trying to find a way around it getting the film done, least that's the gist of what Michael Bivins said in a recent article.

Graycap23 said:

The most successful female artist of her time (..Damn, I can't believe I'm taking up for Madonna...lol....someone take a picture of this shit...) doesn't belong in the Hall?

Again, don't let how u feel about a particular act get in the way of acknowldeging their impact...God knows I've kicked Madonna enough on this site...But you will never hear me say that she didn't have a huge impact...

It seems like folks do that a lot here...Shit, I would say the same for folks that shit on Donna Summers...To me I'm talking about impact and not whether or not they are too low brow for your taste...
[Edited 6/26/08 12:18pm]

murph said:

Serious q: Is IMPACT the criteria?

Graycap23 said:

yeah the criteria is obviously not about actually being a musician.

As for New Edition, they were certainly big, though probably the sum of their parts (ie Johnny Gill, Bobby Brown, BBD) was greater than the N.E. whole.

They never did anything particularly "new," but they were pleasant enough, and kind of ushered in the modern (ech) boy band era. For that alone they should probably be banned

And all we're talking about is New Edition. Who knew N.E could raise hackles after all these years.

murph said:

Grandmaster Flash got in over the Dave Clark Five. What's your point?

I'll give you that Jodeci started much more organically than NSYNC, but they're basically the same formula a generation apart.

its ridiculous to say madonna dont deserve to be there, its not called the musician's hall of fame its called rock n roll. whatever you stuck up prince fans think of the madonnas and janets of the world you cant deny their impact.they are responsible for some of the most popular music in the last 25 years and i've seen their influence on more artists then most of the people who are in the hall of fame.

I have to agree with Gray here as far as how much the Hall means and that even if we push that aside, NE(and I love NE)doesn't belong there.There are a lot of actual BANDS who WROTE and PLAYED their OWN STUFF that were solid artists, who don't even belong there, so how does a pack of kids snatched out of the hood who did a song and dance routine and had some hits belong there? I mean they were decent, but can they compete with real voices? With people who made up their own steps, had their own style, didn't need to pay Right On to boost them up in the eyes of little black girls everywhere? And really, Ralphie had an okay perm, but we've seen far better. And most people are yammering about their sales, crossover success, and popularity as if those things mean something. As much lip synching as I've done to "Can You Stand the Rain," the sad fact is that acts like NE led to the cheapening of music.

The Hall has become the Grammys and a lot of other awards/symbols. Now these things never meant that much, but over the last ten plus years it's become clear that they've lost almost all meaning and that's only going to get worse as the arts sink deeper and deeper into the outhouse pit of corporate disease.

Dance said:

Graycap23 said:

Yes:

Graycap23 said:

Answer: Yes

How else would you measure an artist?

Whether it's impact of the way people evolved their songwriting from just love songs to left field, serious subject matter (Sam Cooke, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, Johnny Cash, Joni Mitchell, Stevie Wonder)

Whether it's an act that made an imapact by creating new rhythms, song AND vocal templates, and a blueprint stage prowess (Chuck Berry, Ray Charles, James Brown, Smokey Robinson, Areatha Fraklin, Luther Vandross)

Whether it's an act that made an impact on the way we looked at a particular instrument (Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Bootsy ect..)

Whether it's an act that changed the way we perceive artistry and musical genres by blurring them in unique ways (Sly Stone, David Bowie, Prince)

Acts that ushered in a new genre of music, influencing trends, politics and culture for years to (Grand Master Flash & The Furious 5, Run DMC, NWA, Eric B & Rakim)

Acts that impacted the feel, trend, and culture of modern R&B (New Edition, Teddy Riley, Timbaland )...

Or populist acts whose sheer impact changed the way music was released, viewed, and thought about by the general public (Michael Jackson, Madonna...), they all deserve their due...

They all had their own specific impact...

Dance said:

i think the problem is fans are trying to turn the hall into something it never was, where did it say you had to be a musician to get in? if that was the case alot of the great motown acts wouldnt be in..the supremes, temptations,four tops,ect were not musicians, they never wrote their own music, all those 60's groups were products of their labels. you cant judge the younger hall candidates on a different criteria. people who grew up listening to new edition would argue that they were just as important as some of the older groups who are in the hall.

AlexdeParis said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:

Wow.....my usefulness of the Hall just dropped a few more notches.
Oh well.

guitarslinger44 said:

Again...there's way to even say they were the same formula for a generation...It's an uninformed statement...And that's no disrespect...It just gives context to your previous statements...

lowkey said:

True, but as was pointed out in the En Vouge vs DC thread, neither group has the material on the level of Be My Baby, Can't Hurry Love, I'll be There...

New Edition was decent, but Candy Girl & Mr Telephone Man have no resonance.

2 be honest, I just learned something new today. I never realized that IMPACT was a part of the criteria. I stand corrected. Based on that, Madonna should be in, but N.E.? The answer is still NO.

Graycap23 said:

How in did you figure musical and cultural impact would NOT be an issue? I believe that is a consideration in practically every such hall of fame-type honor.

Graycap23 said:

Serious question: What would you personally have the criteria be? I'm just having a hard time imagining a way impact wouldn't be part of the selection process.

AlexdeParis said:

My criteria would be:
Musicianship
Vocal ability
Writing skills
Performance skills
Innovative position

Impact would be on the list but NOT that high.
Seriously, Madonna has no MUSICAL skills that I can see or hear. NONE.
Seems she ONLY made it because of the Video age and her marketing skills.
That is NOt enough in my book.

AlexdeParis said:

It sounds like this is becoming more of a case of overcoming some people's biases and opinionated views vs. a case of looking at facts.

LittleAmy said:

See reply #112.

Graycap23 said:

I'm certainly no big fan, but it is a hall of FAME.

Madonna had a lot of hits, big hits over 20 years. I totally agree with you about her talent, but she has to go in over a better singer that we've never heard of, I think.

Graycap23 said:

You named several subjective criteria, as equally as subjective as impact. The only difference is how YOU weigh them.

LittleAmy said:

Musicianship is an subjective as impact when one of the candidates CAN'T play?

Graycap23 said:

Michael Jackson doesn't play instruments. Does that mean he's less qualified? Do you actually see how SUBJECTIVE that can be?

LittleAmy said:

It's all good either way. I've never really paid any attention 2 the Hall until Prince got in.

The ONLY real HALL is when I invest my time and money into an artist.