I chose En Vogue. I like DC based on their songs, but that was about it. Beyonce was DC and Kelly and Michelle were back up singers. The drama that happened in that group ruined any kind of respect that I even had for Beyonce. She got what she wanted: a big time singing career of screaming and taking credit for songs that her silly ass did not write. En Vogue - I have no idea what happened to them but those women were the group back in the 1990s. I was a big fan. I am bothered in a sense, that none of them had a very successful solo career. They had the package so I don't know what happened to that.

CalhounSq said:

EnVogue's music has aged incredibly well."Hold On" still sounds good.

AlexdeParis said:

yeah,I gotta admit,the pictures are nice

krayzie said:

Uhhh, okay, see first off, the statement was made in regards to someone stating that Beyonce was a better vocalist than Patti LaBelle and that she possesses more hits and versatility than Patti, which is what I made the whole statment around, but somehow all that was overlooked due to a reference to Britney Spears and J. Lo... ... uhh, yeah, . Sorry, but yes, Beyonce was rocking a sexual image before leaving DC. She was rocking the half dressed look in many of their videos, so yes, like Britney and J. Lo, she did use sex appeal to help promote her image thus boosting their album sells. It's not her fault. Beyonce is like many women trying to make it in the music biz and like I stated, "Sex sells". Her image is just as important as her voice because if Beyonce looked like this:





I doubt she'd be where she is now. Compared to the majority of garbage artists on the radio nowadays, she's awe-inspiring. She sings live and performs nicely which I commend her for, but compare her to older artists like Patti LaBelle, Tina Turner (who is going on tour very soon at the age of 60), and Donna Summer; and she really isn't that much to bat an eye it. But, yeah, compared to these newbie chicks out now...she's outstanding. I agree, 100%, but Patti can still mop the floor with her vocally and performance-wise....hell, Tina already did.

krayzie said:

Beyonce may have talent, but the vast majority of her songs are straight throwaway stuff. You can't make an arugment most of her Destiny's Child material had any memorable staying power, and the same holds true with her solo material. Like estelle said, she is more of a concept image.

estelle81 said:

60? Tina will be 69 later this year. Still sexy, too.

AlexdeParis said:

Wow, I was way off. Tina looks younger at times than Beyonce anyways...hell she looks better than the majority of these young singers and many of them are in their 20s and she still puts on a hell of a performance, so go on Ms. Turner and do the damn thang.
[Edited 7/10/08 11:26am]

estelle81 said:

Nope, Nope, Nope... Don't say stupid stuff... Beyonce has never based her success on "sexual image", and remember DC was a teenage group... DC had a very safe image back then... Beyonce only started to play a more adult image when she started her solo career at age 22... And it's even hard to claim she was rocking a "sexual image"... Beyonce's image is far from Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera...

So comparing her to Spears or JLo is utterly wrong...

Number 2, pretending that Beyonce is like many women trying to make it in the music biz is idiotic... Beyonce is a vocalist and a performer in the first place, and her career has always been based on that... You talk like she was Madonna or something...

Her voice has always been more important than her voice...

estelle81 said:

Beyonce is Beyonce and Tina Turner is Tina Turner, like it or not, trying to compare artists is fucking stupid...

And Tina Turner ain't 60 but 70...

krayzie said:

I agree with everything, ESPECIALLY the bold above. You say what I want to say but don't have the energy to.

krayzie said:

Your screenname definitely says alot. I never said she based her success on her sexual image...I said that her image was just as much a part of her career as her voice was, which is true for the majority of female and male artists in music history, regardless of what u or anybody else says. Utterly wrong about the sexual image thing?...okay, so the short shorts in "Bills, Bills, Bills" and belly bearing halter in "Bug-a-boo" aren't as sexually suggestive as Britney's schoolgirl uniform? Yeah, okay. If that's how you feel, than that's how you feel, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with u. If that's the case, then Christina Aguilera was just as 'dressed' as Beyonce when she came out, so I don't know why you threw her name into this, because I never even mentioned her in my original post. Christina has a great voice and is also a phenomenal performer who can dance her ass off in three inch heels just as good as Beyonce, so maybe that's why you threw her into the mix...I understand. Most of DC's videos came out in 99 so they were all about 18 if not almost 18 at that time, so I wouldn't call them teenagers, but that's just me. I compared her image to Britney and J. Lo, but I never compared her to them vocally...if I had, then I could totally understand you getting all bent out of shape over it, because Brit and J.No can bearly sing their way out of a wet paper bag if they had to. Now, if I was to compare Beyonce's DC years image to her solo image than I agree with you 100% that she is waay more sexed up now, but there was a sexually suggestive image going on while Beyonce was queen bee of DC, so we'll have to agree to disagree and move on.



Madonna may not be a great vocalist (or really even a good one), but her performances have kept her in the public eye for over 20 years now, so I don't get the negativity behind that last sentence. There have been lots of amazing vocalists who haven't lasted for nearly that long. The majority of Madonna's career has been fueled by her performances, so I don't get what that means. I lost interest in Madonna back in the early 90s, but I have no problem admitting that she puts on a hell of a show, just like I commended Beyonce for being a good performer with a very good voice.

Originally, Beyonce's career was based on what her dad told her...just like Jessica Simpson. That's not saying that neither of these two don't love music and they aren't good singers, but seriously, if their fathers hadn't been the pushing forces that they are, do you think DC would have been anymore relevant than the many other girl groups that were out at that time...ie Jade, Brownstone, etc.? Maybe they would have been just as successful without Papa Knowles forceful hand, who's to say, I just know that daddy Knowles was just as much a part of DC's success as Beyonce's voice...just like Joe Jackson was for his kids.





Yet, this whole thread is comparing Destiny's Child to EnVogue, a group that was making hits long before DC was even formed. This whole topic is a 'who do you prefer' and you can't pick one without comparing it to the other, so.....what r u talking about? People are going to compare artists to each other, whether new or old, so you just posted in the wrong thread if you think it's 'fucking stupid'. Comparisons are made everyday on this forum and have been since it came into existence. All those goddamn Janet vs Madonna vs whoever threads are all just comparisons so I surely hope that since you aren't a fan of comparing one artist to another that you avoid those topics. Appreciate it.

DC4

I was mad what was I to do?
never had it in my mind to play on you
but look at all the hurt you put me through
I can't tell a lie so I'm tellin the truth!

I came of age with these girls

The Brides

estelle81 said:

My screenname says nothing, but your crazy statements say a lot... First of all, let me refresh your memory, you clearly stated the fact that Beyonce based her career on her sexual image... And to illustrate your point you even go as far as comparing her to Jlo and Britney Spears...
You clearly said that Beyonce did use sex appeal to help promote her image thus boosting their album sells.

Again, this is wrong, Beyonce

estelle81 said:

Are you serious ?
Excuse me but there's nothing "sexual" about Bills, Bills, Bills or Bug-a-boo, if you want to see real sexual appeal go check Britney Spears's Slave for you video or Christina Aguilera's Stripped video...

Destiny Child never played the "sexual" image you're talking about... It was a teenage group that clearly played a very safe image...

they tried to be as mainstream as possible...

Plus I repeat again, Destiny's child wasn't original or different compared to other female r&b groups, the major difference has more to do with the fact that not only they made the right hits at the right time, but they also had a very talented and charismatic front singer...

estelle81 said:

This is not how I feel,that's the truth. Destiny Child had nothing to do with Jlo or Britney Spears even when it comes to image...Period.

You claimed that Beyonce "like Britney and J. Lo, she did use sex appeal to help promote her image thus boosting their album sells. It's not her fault. Beyonce is like many women trying to make it in the music biz and like I stated, "Sex sells"."

That's simply untrue...

estelle81 said:

Now my friend, you just lost the credibility, because if theres is ONE single artist that over-used sex more than anybody else it's simply Madonna. Period...

How can you pretend that Beyonce did use sex appeal to help promote her image thus boosting their album sells and at the same time claim that Madonna's career has been fueled by her performances"...

Give me a break...


More you speak more you say crazy stuff...
[Edited 7/12/08 5:14am]

AlexdeParis said:

thanx for this

GAWD I love this woman
I have had her album
for a handful of years now
and I have never listened
all the way through
(yup, it was that forgettable)

but thanx for the artwork
I was needing to upload
this to my ZUNE
but had no artwork

where did you find the album cover?
because I don't think amazon had artwork
I don't even think they sell the album

krayzie said:

Okaay...Where in my post did I deny that Madonna's performances weren't sexually over the top in actual words not your assumption? I said, "her performances have kept her in the public eye for over 20 years". The only reason I made a point of stating that was because you said that Beyonce was a vocalist and a performer above all and then u threw Madonna's name into the mix...I didn't bring Madonna up; that was you.

Madonna has always been more a performer than anything else. Nowhere did I say that her performances were conservative or kid-friendly, because that would be a big joke. Madonna has always been a shock-value performer and a attention lover and most likely always will be...it's Madonna. I didn't see the point in mentioning something that is soo obvious...that's like telling someone that the sky is blue....duh, who doesn't know this...it's common sense. Of course her performances have been sexually charged, why state an obvious fact...Sex sells and Madonna has obviously not blinded herself to that ideology, as much as I wish she would, because I find it predictable and extremely boring now.

There's been lots of artists, male and female, who have over-used sex in their music and/or images...Lil Kim totally pops into my head over Madonna if I had to pick an artist who deserves the over-sexed title, but that's me...even Mariah comes into my mind and I actually still like her, but I have no problem stating that she needs to tone it down alot. Since you failed to leave off this whole part:

krayzie said:


estelle81 said:

I don't really see the point in your argument from the get go. You are responding to a comparison thread yet you are getting all bent out of shape about a comparison? Plain and simple, this was a comparison topic from the beginning...PERIOD. So like I said, if u think it's 'fucking stupid' to compare one artist to another, than why even waste your time responding to a thread titled "EnVogue or Destiny's Child"? So you've lost credibility also. Since you insisted on leaving this part out of your post, I rest my case and like I stated, we'll have to agree to disagree, because "Slave 4 U" and "Stripped" both came out when these two girls were past the age of 18, just like you originally stated about Beyonce and I quote:


krayzie said:

Well, when "Slave 4 U" came out in like 2001, Britters was at least 19 or 20 and "Stripped" came out in 2002 when Christina was like 21 or 22, so if it's okay that Beyonce was "more adult" at age 22, than why pick on Britters and X-tina for the same offense. If it's not okay for these two to do it, than it's not okay for Beyonce to be rolling around half naked on a bed and moaning in "Baby Boy"...let's be fair and unbiased for a moment.

Neither DC, Britney, or Christina came out with a Disney-like/Hanna Montana image or lyrical content on their first albums and they all had young fanbases, so like I said, We'll have to agree to disagree because all this is based on two totally differing opinions. You believe that DC didn't use sex appeal at all in the beginning and I see videos on Youtube that tell me otherwise, but that's my opinion and opinions are just that...opinions. They're not law, nor are they wrong or right...just an opinion, so if you are a DC fanatic, than your opinion is obviously not going to agree with mine because I've always seen them as just a lead singer with glorified backup singers more than an actual group. So, different strokes for different folks, my friend; I'm over arguing with an obviously obsessed Beyonce fan because there's no winning an argument with a fanatic, so peace and happiness in your Beyonce lovefest...if her music makes you feel good, than why do u care what my opinion of her is? Oh, and I like your Stevie avatar by the way.
[Edited 7/13/08 9:31am]

In my mind this isn't much of a contest. EnVogue's songs have more staying
power than anything destiny's child have done especially the second
incarnation of DC when they became a trio. Songs like survivor, bootylicious,
the weak bee gees remake, and soldier are forgettable songs. EnVogue's
whole first album along is more memorable and carries more weight than
anything DC's done.

Looks like most of us agree: EnVogue wins

If I had a gun to my head, I guess I'd choose EnVogue. At least those girls all enjoyed decent face time on camera and chops that were routinely showcased. When daddy Knowles eventually did whittle Destiny's Child down to that final line-up, Kelly and Michelle effectively became little more than Beyonce's backup singers. And while I'm first in line to root for female empowerment, just how many times can you sing the same cheesy I'm-so-independent-I-can't-stand-myself song and expect to be taken seriously on an artistic level by anyone over, say, 21? ...Especially when you turn around and drop some crap like "Soldier."

That said, I think both groups are overrated. EnVogue's vocal talent was good, but not legendary, as some people seem to think it... and the success of their first two albums had at least as much to do with promotion and their looks as any fulfillment of their real potential. And beyond those two albums, they became virtually expendable.