dancerella said:

Apart from losing a Pepsi deal during the 80's AND getting call out for the Justify My Love video during the very early 90's, Madonna suffer no severe setback whatsoever.

TonyVanDam said:

Exactly, and the thing that really bugs me about JAY Z, is how magazines like VIBE didnt call him out for the whole "signing" with Steve Jobs and the whole deal, a mere 3 months after he was joining with JD to go against Apple and "breaking" up albums to sell each track for 99cents. Jay got no flack from this.

lastdecember said:

Not to mention the rumored "slave trade" shit he was involved with last year.

Xcalibre said:

Perseverance ?

Nope, she's definitly the industry darling... Specifically because she can do whatever she wants and never hold accountable for nothing...

Remember that Madonna is an MTV product... Without radio stations, MTV and big media, she sells nothing... The media made her... She has never based her career on her musical kills or performances like real artists... She's not a real artist...

The reason why she still there is because the biggest radio stations, MTV and big media have ALWAYS SUPPORTED HER, it has nothing to do with perseverance...

krayzie said:

True and thats why i think everyone needs to seperate what a MEDIA star and what a Music Artist is. But many others can go on that list of MEDIA stars such as Janet,Mariah and Beyonce to name a few.

Harlepolis said:

After reading about THIS and other things, I'm so convince that Jay-Z is a part of The Powers That Be network (especially then he's STILL using The All Seeing Eye hand signal). But I'll save that discussion for another day in P&R.

TonyVanDam said:

Oh shit yeah! He's gotten one of the biggest passes in history, and it bothers me that people dogged Diddy for going the route of "fashion" and other avenues, when Jay Z was a follower too.

R.Kelly - He can do no wrong in his fans eyes.

Quincy Jones
The Beatles
Bruce Springsteen
Bob Dylan

phunkdaddy said:

That's true...

krayzie said:

um, yes, that's perseverance. she does whatever she wants and when she gets trashed for it, she gets back up and does the next thing she wants. why shouldn't she?



without radio, mtv and big media, nobody sells anything.



that's not what we're talking about here. the conversation is about whether or not she's a media darling, and i'd argue she isn't. she gets trashed in the press enough every time she has a project out that calling her a media "darling" is ridiculous.





that's not entirely true. she was pretty much abandoned by them in 1993 and 2003, but she's still here because she wasn't afraid to pick herself up and try again the next time. perseverance.

Xcalibre said:[quote]

krayzie said:

Oh really ?
What do you think, because she's an extraordinary artist who makes extraordinary music, so good music that the media have no choice but support her ????

Xcalibre said:

Real talented artists can sell without MTV ang big media... Not MAdonna...
Real artists don't need MTV to sell records ...

If it wasn't for MTV and big media, there's no Madonna...

Xcalibre said:

Oh yes that's the main conversation, if you have no real talent and musical skills and manage to sell more records than any body else thanks to the masive support of MTV and big radio stations, that means you a industry darling...






Yep right, Madonna is the only artist who come back every scandal, not because she's the industry darling, but because she got more perseverance than Prince, Stevie Wonder, and James Brown put together...

Yep right...

U2. They haven't done anything interesting since the early 90s but still get called great.

I guess it depends on what you mean by an industry darling. Madonna gets a lot of support from radio, MTV and VH1 as far as playing her songs and videos. But as far as the press, she gets a lot of criticism that to me is very mean spirited. They are always attacking her looks, saying she has no talent and she's over.
She keeps selling becaue the "media" doesn't buy records, average people do. And despite what the critics say, lots of average people who are skeptical of the media love her music.

I would say a media darling is REM. Their records always get great reviews and glowing media coverage. Sometimes they deserve it and sometimes they don't.

lastdecember said:

madonna is and always has been white media's darling, everything she does is considered some stroke of artistic brilliance while other artists have been ruined for much less tacky moments then the queen of tacky herself have givin us. are you serious when you call janet, mariah and beyonce media darlings??

lowkey said:

Exactly. Janet Jackson's career was effectively destroyed because of the Super Bowl incident; it's been nearly 20 years since Madonna released the "Sex" book, and I would say Jackson's ill-advised stunt (which she took the full brunt while the co-conspirator -- a white male -- was practically excused by the media) was not nearly on the level of that book.

I wouldn't call Madonna a media darling at all.Where have you guys been? Madonna has received brutal criticism since Day One.Everytime she does something (adopting an African baby.....making a video with Justin Timberlake,etc)critics roll their eyes and call it a "publicity stunt".I always read scathing articles and reviews about her.The reason why she overcomes all the bad press is because she's a strong,focused artist who doesn't give a fuck what they write about her.She doesn't get a "pass",she just moves on and proves her critics/haters wrong over and over.

SoulAlive said:

Most of Madonna's "criticism" is borne from the logic that she has been a prominent musical act for more than 20 years, and almost incessantly -- i.e. a byproduct of obsolescence. She's a constant figure in entertainment media, and whose exposure certainly isn't the worse for the wear compared to her '80s peers (namely, people like Michael Jackson and Prince).

LittleAmy said:

Janet is not nearly as smart as Madonna when it comes to dealing with controversy.Madonna suffered a huge backlash in 1993/94,after the 'Sex' book and the 'Body Of Evidence' movie.Many critics were gleefully saying that her career was over.What did she do? She wisely changed the subject,released a great album ('Bedtime Stories') and scored a Number One hit with "Take A Bow" (a beautiful, melodic ballad).Suddenly,the focus was back on THE MUSIC,where it belonged.She then followed this project with respectable,career-defining projects like 'Evita' and 'Ray Of Light'.By the late 90s,nobody was even talking about the 1993 backlash anymore.

In the years following "Nipplegate",what did Janet do? She released a couple of sex-themed R&B albums,appeared (nearly) topless on the cover of one of those CDs,did a few trashy interviews where she discussed private details of her sex life with Jermaine Dupri,and even appeard as a naughty schoolgirl in a video for one of Jermaine's flop singles.Only now is she starting to change the subject,with a well-received role in a Tyler Perry film and an upcoming tour.For her sake,let's hope it isn't too late.

LittleAmy said:

It's not clear to me that the reason Janet's career went downhill is just because of that incident. It could also be because she has made such similiar records and hasn't changed with the times.
But you're ignoring the fact there's a huge difference between the Sex book and the Super Bowl incident. With Madonna's Sex book, there was a warning on it, that this has sexually explicit content and nudity and is not for children so parents could keep it away from children and people who are offended by nudity could avoid it.
With the Super Bowl incident, people were watching what they thought was going to be family friendly entertainment and all of a sudden with no warning they saw Janet's naked breast.
I have no problem with nudity and sexually explicit content, but you should make people aware you are going to show it so people who are offended can avoid it and keep their young children from seeing it.

LittleAmy said:

The difference being that Janet did her stunt on national broadcast television during "family viewing hours." It was an FCC no-no. You had to pay to see Madonna's cans and hoo hoo and butt and thighs and...

Janet's still got her devoted following, but has always been compared to her brother(s) by critics. It's a double-edged sword.

LittleAmy said:

Well, part of that is because she has continued to release records and tour. Michael Jackson hasn't released anything or toured in years. So if you don't bother to release anything or tour, that's your own fault that you become obselete, not because the media is attacking you.
As far as Prince, I don't see that his image has been damaged or he's worse for wear. He has a very positve image in the media. His records and tours have been postively reviewed and his tours are very successful.
I think any artist be it Madonna or Prince who continues to work is respected by their fans. An artist like Michael Jackson that basically gives up and stop doing anything isn't.

Madonna fans must still think it's 1985 or 1993. Either that or they are just living in separate universes. Madonna has just been inducted into the R&RHOF in the very first year she was eligible. Even Bruce Springsteen had to wait years to get that honor. Most artists would kill to get the airplay and coverage she gets. Think of how no one in the media has mentioned how bland her vocals sound on these new tracks of hers (something which even her biggest fans have pointed out online). Think of her attempt to rap on "American Life" (again something even her fans admit was terrible). If J-Lo or Britney had done something that embarrassing then every comedian and talk show host in the country would be mocking them for it. They would be a national laughing stock. Only Madonna could get away from such a cock up totally unblemished. Face it, she is an establishment figure. You Madge fans need to stop kidding yourselves otherwise. This is not 1985.

Oh please.A few years ago,some in the media were reporting that Madonnna "kidnapped" an African baby from it's father.Almost everything she does is criticized,scrutinized,analyzed and referred to as a "publicity stunt".I fail to see this "pass" that you guys claim that the media is giving her

LittleAmy said:

We have parental adviosory stickers because Tipper Gore was upset about Darlin Niki and Dress You Up.

and if Janet would own up to what everyone knows is true instead of playing dumb or blaming others America would move one to some degree. If you watch a Madonna interview they always ask her if she regrets her decisions and always bring up the Erotica Era. Though she explains it differently she still says she would do it all over the same way. That's why there is a difference Madonna owns up to it while Janet thinks she's above the game.

RipHer2Shreds said:

The other difference is that one was a botched stunt and the other was an intentional publication. Also, one act still was being badgered by the accident years later and the other person was chalked up as mostly "daring."

LittleAmy said:

BULLSHIT!

I personally know the designer of the corest, she does lots of fetish and BDSM wear in LA. IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO WHAT IT DID.