Slave2daGroove said:

_____

RIGHT THE #@$* ON! Thank U Slave
[Edited 5/30/08 19:23pm]

Xcalibre said:

EX - FUCKING - ZACTLY!!!

BlaqueKnight said:

Yazarah has an amazing voice.

BlaqueKnight said:

I didn't say that, I said that Aretha is overrated. Like, Amy, it is all in they way that she interprets the songs that she sings. It just amazes me how she got the title of "Queen of Soul", when Amy sings sings her songs with the same amount of pain and emotion. I also believe that if Amy were not on drugs, would she be looked at in a totally different light. As far as the ladies that you mentioned in a prior post, out of all of them, only Jill Scott, Heather and Yolanda are the only true singers in my book.

shorttrini said:

We definitely have different books, then. You calling Aretha overrated and in the same breath hailing Amy Winehouse is proof of that. She didn't give herself that title and Amy hasn't innovated ANYTHING AT ALL. Aretha did. S'Aight. You can have Winehouse. Drugs or no drugs, she's nowhere near the level of Aretha, Gladys and in my book she is LESS of a singer than EVERYONE I mentioned, with her no voice control having ass. Aretha has been in the business longer than this tattooed twit has been alive. Amy can't even be consistant gig to gig. Amy ain't even on par with Teena Marie to me and Christina edges her out in vocal ability although Amy seems to have more heart.
And for the record, LOTS of singers have been on drugs and still been able to perform well. It ain't just the drugs; you gotta chalk some of that up to what it is - flawed vocals. I don't give people props for "trying". Nobody pays to see people try. Either she's on point or she's off. Half of the time she's off. [/color]

BlaqueKnight said:

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect yours. I just think that Aretha has this tendency to over sing all of the songs that she has sung. It is my belief that one can sing a song without all of those vocal arobics that she does and still give the song feeling. Most of the singers that you mentioned Blaque, all sing one genre of music, Neo-soul. This is a genre that very limited in regards to how the artist sings the song. Your right, what Amy did at first glance is not innovative....this is what makes her a interesting. She sings it as she feels it, and without all of those vocal tricks. It seems to me that in order for you to label someone as a good singer, they must come from the school of vocal acrobatics. For me.....Just sing the damn song.....and Amy does just that.

midnightmover said:

Maybe cos the black British singers are mainly just rubbish. You've got yelling Beverley Knight with a voice but no soul and shit songs, Estelle who's a rapper and tries to sing but just can't, Jamelia who likes to pretend she's a Soul/R&B singer but if she was white she'd just be the next Kylie Minogue, Mica Paris who'd rather present shite TV shows than sing, Gabrielle and Des'ree with their bland MOR stuff and laziness to ever release anything.

There's Andrew Roachford who I think is AMAZING, but he unfortunately never gets any attention He goes ignored after 20 years knocking around in favour of utter shit like David Jordan. I'm crossing my fingers that Marsha Ambrosius will find some success as a soloist and not go down the 'guest vocalist on rap records' route.
[Edited 5/31/08 0:59am]

BlaqueKnight said:

Blaque, while I am not taking away anything from the ladies that you have mentioned, they sound the same. Amel is not a jazz singer, she is a singer that sings R&B, with jazz overtones. I have seen her on a few occasions I have walked away not impressed. I am surprised that you didn't mention, Sade. The ladies that you mentioned, cannot hold a stick to her. Again, Amy is not the greatest singer alive. To me, she brings back memories of a sound that once was. Something that while not being new, is refreshing. The ladies that you mentioned, while all very talented, at the end of the night, just sound the same to me. It is as if they are saying, "If what we are singing is neo-soul or jazz, then we must sing it in the exact same way EVERY time. Most of today's artist and yes, some of the ladies that you mentioned, have not pushed the envelope enough for me. On both of Amy's CD's and I must say, Jill's first CD, they were not afraid to do something that their contemporaries were not doing. I first started listening to Amel when she first came out and while it was great at the time, ten years or so later, it has become quite boring. Maybe, they are being told by their record company, not to "push that envelope", if this is the case.....then it is a damn shame.

Ellie said:

Wow...hang on here Ellie their is no such thing as Black British Soul Singers, because the UK has never had an R'n'B or Soul Chart, yes we have a Pop Chart with Black Artist that make it but there is no UK Soul or R'n'B Chart that why you get our Artist making commercial crap to cater for the "White" producers,TV Shows, and Radio Airplay in the UK!

Mica Paris moved from making music to earn a living because the "White UK Industry" kept messing about with her music..she is very talented and is a good DJ, Writer, Singer and TV Presenter ...I noticed you have not mentioned Sade, and for the record if you have seen Beverley Knight Live as Prince has you would not be slagging her off as a person with no Soul!

LondonStyle said:

Thanks for breaking down the difference.

BlaqueKnight said:

I think you're right on, but will say that I don't necessarily think most white people are dismissing those artists in favor of Amy, but (with a few exceptions) they simply aren't exposed to them. And most people aren't going to do any research for their entertainment.

"Why aren't they exposed to them" is a good question. I think maybe the bonus points come from the industry first. But considering all the shit in the top 40 I'm happy someone who's merely good like amy is there at all.
[Edited 5/31/08 10:27am]

BlaqueKnight said:

i love Edith Piaf - r.i.p she´s a great artist

I really love Amys voice. But I don't think that she is the best female singer alive.

BlaqueKnight said:

just wanted to add that those singers aren't just under-represented in white peoples' Ipods, but they are under-represented on R&B radio, as well, in favor of Beyonce, Jay-Z, R Kelly, Mariah, Usher, Alicia...
[Edited 5/31/08 14:51pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

Hey Blaque, that's all she might have sung, but she in no way qualifies her as a "Jazz" singer. While Amy is really doing nothing "new", she is doing something that these other singers are really not doing. To me, the singers that you've mentioned, again all sound the same...It is as if they all found the "Neo-Soul", blueprint and are following it, step by step. At first it is cool, but do something else all ready. I was listening to Jill's first CD the other day. I thought to myself, "This was a great CD, because she was doing something different from all of the others that were in that genre at that time. Now, all of her CD's since then, are starting to sound like her peers. Now, I am not saying that Amy might not end up the same way, but both of her CD's have their own sound to them. To me, that's a good thing. Here is what I don't understand, if music is supposed to be so universal, why do we get mad when someone else takes the time to study it and do it as good as WE are supposed to be doing it? Cause quite frankly, with the exception of a few, we have not been.

The key word for Winehouse is "alive". Let's hope she stays that way.

Slave2daGroove said:

I agree with everything you said.I get tired of all these silly labels,and pitting one race against another.Good music is good music,let's leave color out of it.Like you say,music is the universal language.

shorttrini said:

Did you get any of Lina's CDs? She was doing what Amy is doing now. She gets NO LOVE AT ALL. Her material is great, her voice is great, she's very pretty (i.e, marketable to record labels). Its not that people aren't doing it, its that the audiences aren't being exposed to it because the ;labels aren't pushing the material properly. The fact is that labels KNOW they would rather have someone like Amy sell over someone like Lina because a white person singing Jazz-R&B well carries a certain appeal to the white mainstream. People like to see images of themselves in successful positions. People like "representation" with whatever they identify with.
And whether or not you think Amel is a jazz singer doesn't change the fact that she is one. As with any other instrument, if one learns and masters a style of playing, they have the right to claim it. Miles Davis did some songs with Prince - he was still a JAZZ MUSICIAN. Mike Scott, Prince's old guitarist, is a JAZZ guitarist. When he's playing Prince's material, he's generally not playing jazz but when you hear him play and you know a genre, you know the licks and you can tell the style. When guitarists like Steve Vai play blues, the neo-classical rock still seeps through the performance. Amel's live vocals are not of a typical R&B style or of a church/gospel style like Whitney Houston, they are of a jazz style. The scales she runs with her fills are jazz scales. I know because I know them. I'm not going to argue with you. Believe what you want. I told you, I trust my ears more than other peoples' perspectives. What I heard was a jazz singer singing R&B.
And to me, the singers I mentioned sing in the same genre of music but sound distinctly different. Have you even heard Rachelle Ferrell? You think she sounds like ANY of these other women? I have to question your ears. I really do.

BlaqueKnight said:

Blaque, while I agree with you 100% that there are many artist out there that do not get the love and time that someone like Amy is getting, that is a result of poor marketing and A&R's not being brave enough to "push the envolope" on these artists. I was raised on a variety of music from Caylpso to classic rock and everything in between. I love Jazz...I really do, but to me people like Amel and Rachelle while good just don't do anything that great. Give me people like Sarah, Billie, even Sade over those you speak of any day.

Well I'm not sure she's THE best alive.... honestly I'm not sure who is, but if you compare her to singers around her age she surely is one of the best. And people who might say: "You only like her because she's white like yourself" or "White singers aren't soulful"..... gimme a break!
Is Ashanti more soulful than Amy Winehouse because she's black?

purplehippieonthe1 said:

That's a very good point...which raises the question about why blacks feel the way they do, when a white singer sings soul music? I am a big fan of Hall & Oates and to me, they are one of the best "Blue-eyed soul singers", around.

Ellie said:

Those crappy artists you mentioned are not representative of the talent that's out there. If the UK music industry was interested in finding the best singers to fill this new soul market that's opened up, they have rich pickings right there in London town, but of course, most of those singers would be black, and that's obviously not the profile they have in mind.

Marrk said:

I always thought that about Bob Dylan.

sosgemini said:

no

Ok people I must respond.

When I started this topic I was niave enough to not even consider the fact that it would spark a whole racial divide. That being said "best singer alive" is what it is, hyperbole. It was just my way of saying I REALLY like Amy Whinehouse, despite the fact that she's a mess and I wish she'd get her act together for her sake.

But personally I don't care enough about that because it's her life, and since I don't know her personally I have no influence, involvement OR personal attachment strong enough to warrant a reaction any stronger than I hope she does it for her sake.

But when I hear people diss her talent BECAUSE of her messy life that's where I get a little testy. Then again I do love my messes. I still think Courtney Love is a brilliant writer and true rock star that puts rock-tots like P!nk, Kelly Clarkson and Avril Lavine et al to shame. If I paid so much attention to her brilliantly messy life I wouldn't notice that.

So when I say Amy is the best female singer alive, it's a declaration that people should listen to her sing. Listen to the soul in her voice. Listen to the way she sounds like Sarah Vaughn on "No Ordinary Love" THEN tell me she isn't a great singer!

Without regards to race and color, i've never been impressed
with amy whinehouse musically and her stanking ass attitude
and penchant for dope just adds to the dislike i already have
for her. I would take teena marie and mariah carey(before she dumbed down musically) over amy anyday.

By the way the best female singers alive are gladys knight
and chaka khan. Take your pick.
[Edited 6/6/08 19:35pm]

CynicKill said:

Cynic, if you are saying that it is her "pain" that makes her a great singer then I agree with you. Most of the singers mentioned might not have gone through the pain and the suffering that Amy, Kurt, Billie and a host of others have gone through. Maybe, this is what makes me listen to them more than today's artists. I have often wondered if she were "clean", would she have that same effect?