krayzie said:

But how many people have said it about Amy Winehouse? The person who started this thread and...?

Lauren Hill was just as adored and respected as Amy Winehouse. If people don't talk about her anymore it's because she is now where it looks like Amy will be in a few years.

krayzie said:

Yeah, in YOUR neighbourhood. In mine, yes they did.

And surely by your silly logic, Usher is more soulful than George Michael, Cassie has more right to do R&B than Pink, Diana Ross has more soul than Dusty Springfield... Right? Is that what you're saying?

Ellie said:

I think it depends upon a person's definition of soul.

To me, Amy has more soul than Mariah, and Willie Nelson has more soul than Beyonce. Mariah & Beyonce, for all their talents, are completely soul-less, musically speaking.

But I could see that not everyone would have the same definition as me.

Also, people just do the music that they love and what they've grown up with. There will of course be more white artists doing Soul/R&B/Rap/Hip-Hop in the future because it's only been the last 30 years when black music has been more and more mainstream.

Winehouse grew up in a household where she was taught about Jazz vocalists. She released Frank at the age of 20, when most 20 year olds wouldn't have a clue about any of her personal influences. She's not like Justin Timberlake who's trying to pretend he grew up with James Brown and Donny Hathaway while all the time he was doing line-dancing on the Mickey Mouse Club.

hahahaha...what a laughable statement.
over exposed and overrated.

just off the top of my head a better singer, annie lennox.

Ellie said:

Cassie can do WHATEVER the fuck she wants!!!! She's gorgeous!

Do I detect a racial divide here? Are we saying that Amy isn't good enough because she isn't black? Is there a suggestion that black artists are better? If so then how racist is that!?

You know, as a child of the 70's, it was not that strange to hear both black and white artist on the same station. Groups like the Doobie Brothers, Hall & Oates, and the Average White Band, were all singing what is today considered, "Blue Eyed Soul." In those days nobody made comments like the one's that have been made on this board about this topic. Have we become that cynical? Are these comments based on the fact that some of us feel that whites have stolen something from us again? Or do these comments come from the fact that we have forgotten that "Soul music", is just that, music that comes from the soul. Nobody said anything when singers like, Dusty, Petula, and other singers with blue eyes sang songs the way they did. Everyone at that time, just enjoyed the MUSIC....Why can't we?

shorttrini said:

PREACH!!! It's a shame that,whenever we discuss a white artist who just happens to sings R&B/soul,it turns into an ugly racial discussion.

Thanks alot,krayzie

SoulAlive said:

Yes, I WOULD like to thank Krayzie. If it weren't for him and others like him on this board, this topic would be kept on the hush.

The industry, the media and white people in general have always made more of a fuss of white soul singers. Fact. Amy is the latest beneficiary of this ancient double standard. White people kick and scream when you bring this up, but that's mostly because they feel they're somehow being accused of racism themselves. Also, I don't think many of them realize how many superior black singers never even get record deals.

midnightmover said:

So, does that mean just because they do it, we should do it too? The "so-called" fuss you are talking about is usually positive and this is a fact. While the fuss blacks make when this happens it is usually done in a negative vain, "Oh I don't see what is so great about her... Or "There they go taking our music again"... Truth be told, just because a singer is of the same race or ethnicity as the person listening to them, does not mean that they are going to do it any better than a person who is not of the same race. Also, can we really define today's so-called "soul music", as REAL music?

krayzie said:

Soul music is soul music. Your list of black artists are all one-of-a-kind, great artists who just happen to be black. There's a list of white one's as well, I bet there's an Asian group too. http://www.youtube.com/wa...L2lKwrNgHQ

While I understand the "threat" (you've outlined) that white people "have taken" a form of music that a certain group of people have started but that argument is lost in a melting pot known as America. Blacks were influenced by whites, whites influenced by Asians, Europe influenced by America and so on.

Double standards, racist actions from the past, songs that African Americans have recorded only to have white people record them with success and just the overall fucked-up treatment AA people have been through really has nothing to do with an artist ability to sing with soul.

I feel sorry for any group of people who have been treated so badly that it's damaged their ability to feel genuine music being poured out of a HUMAN SOUL. That's what makes music the universal language and when you're too far gone to recognize that music has transformed over time with every artist since music began, that's on you. Nobody has to "prove" shit, history has been written by better men/musicians.

midnightmover said:

We all know this is true, yes.

But there are plenty of mediocre artists on the charts that are not white, and there are great unknown artists of all colors, shapes, & sizes.

Amy Winehouse is a decent singer with decent songs. The music industry is so empty at the moment that that seems like a revelation at times, and her talent gets a little blown out of proportion. Doesn't make her bad, just means the industry that supplies us with music doesn't really understand what good music is most of the time.

NDRU said:[quote]

krayzie said:

But how many people have said it about Amy Winehouse? The person who started this thread and...?

A lot of folks ... I've seen so many folks over there saying a lot of crazy stuff about Amy Winhouse...

NDRU said:

Nope, she was respected, but not to the point to claim stuff like she's the greatest ... I've never seen that...

Amy Winhouse has been labeled as the "queen of soul" and all kind of crazy stuff... And I can say the same for any white act making black music
[Edited 5/30/08 12:38pm]
[Edited 5/30/08 12:44pm]

Maybe you just didn't get out much in the late 90s, or maybe you don't know any white people, cos you sure as hell have a skewered opinion of how Lauryn Hill was received for Miseducation.

shorttrini said:

That's true, soul music is music that comes from the soul... That's very true... But what you seem to ignore is that in black culture 'soul' has a very specific definition... The meaning of 'soul' can be defined as black self-expression, a very specific way to express emotions, feelings, pain, joy etc... And it takes place in each and every part of black culture/life... Black self-expression takes roots from Africa, brought by african slaves to the plantations, to black churches, and through black music...

So because of the african origins of 'soul', it is obviously difficult for white folks to emulate what we do...

So which white artists do you like and/or respect?

Slave2daGroove said:

Nope soul music is black music... This is an art formthat we have created...

Slave2daGroove said:

Blacks do black music... White people are those who have been influenced by blacks, not the other way around...

Slave2daGroove said:

I have no problem with white folks doing black music, but I'm tired of the double standard goin on in music industry... It's time for white artists to be treated like black artists...

Slave2daGroove said:

Music is universal, but there is a reality... The reality is racism and double standard have always been there... And it has always been easier for white artists to crossover...

Black artists have to be extraordinary talented and outperform white artists to get the respect they deserve...

SoulAlive said:

Yep, it comes from the same guy who constantly denies racism...

"It's time for white artists to be treated like black artists"???

Anyone ever teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?

krayzie said:

To hear you talk about it, white people do not have souls. Yet, there are white artists who appreciate black music more than some blacks artists do. I have always said that there are some white people who study "our music", while some black people feel that since it is "our" music, there is no need to study it. Well, judging from what has been released by some of today's black artist, I think some detention is needed...
[Edited 5/30/08 15:17pm]
[Edited 5/30/08 15:19pm]
[Edited 5/30/08 15:19pm]

Hate to toot my own horn, but I used to have 3 managers at an old workplace, all black, all a few years older than me and they didn't know jack shit about Soul music or anything outside of modern Hip Hop. They'd come and ask ME to make them compilations of my recommendations.

shorttrini said:

Oh yep I know that a lot of white folks appreciate black music, this not the point I was making...
[Edited 5/30/08 15:32pm]

Ellie said:

Oh a lot man, too many to say... but I think blue eyed soul artists are atrociously overrated... I like none of them...

whatever you all are smoking pass me some

krayzie said:

Generally I agree with you, but there are a few exceptions. Michael McDonald for instance. When I hear "On My Own" I barely notice Patti. It's his voice that makes the most impact. I was shocked when I found out he was white. There are plenty of other soulful white singers too, but there are also TONS of them who are overpraised, particularly British ones over the last 25 years, which brings up another point. Almost all the retro soul singers now are British. Since America doesn't seem to have it's own ones, the blame for the whiteness of this new batch (Winehouse, Duffy, Adele, Joss) falls on the UK record industry. In America it seems to me black artists have been dominant now for some time, but it's just America generally prefers to import it's retro acts from overseas.

BlaqueKnight said:

And neither is Aretha. Sorry Blaque, but in my opinion, she is overatted. To me, she cannot hold a candle to singers like, Gladys Knight, a lady that does not get her much credit.

shorttrini said:

So you think Amy Winehouse is a better singer than Aretha Franklin? WOW! Just....WOW!
By the way, I grew up on Gladys, too. She was one of my mom's favorites. I saw her live a lot when I was young. She IS underrated as far as legends go.
I can't ride with ya on the Winehouse thing. Sorry. There are PLENTY of soulful R&B singers that would wax Amy and I don't even have to go back before her contemporaries to find them, either. Two records and already she's the queen of soul? Aw HELL naw!