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PrintableLittleAmy said: vainandy said: That's all I'm saying, so much of it has a fine line and so much of it has been mistaken, that it really doesn't matter whether it's officially disco or funk. They both were great music forms and the hate for disco is totally rediculous considering that a lot of the same people who used to love disco themselves while it was happening but didn't start hating it until later once it got the "gay" label, as if that's a bad thing.
IMO, the disco backlash became a lightning rod for a lot of reasons, which made it the perfect storm for retaliation. Not only in terms of sexual orientation, but also for racial and lifestyle purposes. White radio stations wanted to go back to a "more traditional rock" movement (a tacit attack at disco's mostly black music origins), which meant popular music became more segregated and homogenized. Some listeners objected to the perceived sexual promiscuity and illegal drug use that had become associated with disco music. Others were put off by the exclusivity of the disco scene, especially in major clubs in large cities such as Studio 54, where bouncers only let in fashionably-dressed club-goers, celebrities and their hangers-on. [Edited 6/9/08 10:02am] Exactly. Racism was definately a factor also. And I'm sure that a lot of racist white parents were also furious that their kids were listening to a form of music in which 90% of the artists were black. The racist white parents part never gets discussed on the TV shows when they talk about disco but I'm sure that was a closet factor as well. If their white kids are listening to mainly black music, and partying on the same dance floors with black people, soon they might start mingling with black people and eventually start dating them. Shit hop is another form of black music that is listened to largely by white people. It has dominated for more than 15 years. I hate to admit it because the music is so horrible, but it did have one good effect on today's society. The races are mingling together more now than ever and lots of people are dating interacially more than ever before. Once white kids started being around black people more, they discovered they weren't the horrible human beings that their parents told them they were (although the thug images on the TV don't make it look that way), but I'm talking about the average white and black kids mingling in everyday life. Disco had brought the races together for a short period also but it was killed off before it could do any good. The only reason they couldn't kill off shit hop is because it didn't have the gay label attached to it. Also, the record companies didn't want to see it killed off because it was the cheapest form of music ever to make. It was their dream come true. They just kept their own white kids segregated in the suburbs and they were cool with keeping shit hop alive. . . . [Edited 6/9/08 10:20am] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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bboy87 said: Cinnie said: Disco never died, it changed and got renamed.
Rap changed a lot too but was never renamed for its unique styles. Yep. Disco evolved into different branches. Disco gave birth to house that gave birth to Garage and Techno and other subgenres Rap is a pretty much a subgenre also co-sign Disco was great, but it ran out of places to go. thank goodness for house and I just saw donna summer on one of the morning shows. she turned it out with old and new music. so maybe it has some staying around to do nipsy | |
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Interesting thread! | |
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Random Thought:
Is it fair to say that as long as you have a group of disenfranchised individuals, you will always have some unique art form that is brewed from the social & economic situations? Country Western Bluegrass Rap Coalminers, blighted neighborhoods, high crime, low employment, unstable housing conditions, uncertain future..etc..etc..etc..Country Western & Bluegrass are both genre's that now are popular within their "own market." Do you guys think Rap will eventually go back to being it's own subculture and lose its overall popularity? Why You Jive Turkey You.... | |
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DJJillMonroe said: Is it fair to say that as long as you have a group of disenfranchised individuals, you will always have some unique art form that is brewed from the social & economic situations?
I think it's a shame to think that great art only comes from misery. Country Western & Bluegrass are both genre's that now are popular within their "own market."
Music changes, of course "old" sounds won't be as popular, that's supposed to happen as it does with everything else. Regardless of what the Clear Channel monster says, music isn't supposed to stay the same for decades or sound the same regardless of where you are. And one could argue that those "subculture markets" are total bullshit because they've basically been created. These aren't genuine scenes. They exist around music fetishes, music drag performers, bored people with too much money, and marketing teams instead of those that actually like the stuff. Do you guys think Rap will eventually go back to being it's own subculture and lose its overall popularity?
We really need to stop treating rap/hip hop as a genre or as actual music. It is people talking over other people's records or a slowed down shell of someone's popular record. That is not a genre. That is not creativity. Anyway, rap isn't even popular. People eat it up because it's been shoved down their throats for so long they really don't know any better. People naturally move from one sound to the next. Things spring up, tastes change. We have several industries working hard at stomping that out and attacking people from every angle and through every possible vehicle with their nonmusic. It'll be kicking as long as the industry wants it to unless listeners decide to grow a damn brain and reject that shit. | |
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vainandy said: There's no confusion. Disco was simply a more modern sounding speeded up version of funk. Nope, again you confuse your Disco crap and Funk, that's why I said you don't know what Funk music is all about... Funk comes from Soul music... Disco is white music, it is an awful noise created by white people to exploit the black sound... They took the elements of black music and remove the blackness, the soul, and created something disgusting ... Artistically empty and meaningless... vainandy said: When white people were listening to it, it was called "disco". However, it still survived after white people dropped it except it didn't have the name "disco". Early 80s funk was very similar to disco. Even the early rap records were similar to disco. When disco's influence finally left (which was years after disco's official "death"), that's when every thing slowed down and turned into a bunch of dull slow shit. In other words, what exists today. The fact that you believe that early 80s funk was very similar to disco makes me want to vomit... You need to learn a lot about black music... Only white people can confuse Disco crap with Funk music... But that was the point, the idea behind Disco music was to create something that white folks would identify as Funk... In fact a lot of Disco acts thought they were actually making Funk music... lol And Disco had NO influence on black music... NEVER... Black music has never been influenced by and never will be influence by white music... NEVER vainandy said: and claims that Jamiroquai is a great funk group...
 I wouldn't exactly call them a great funk group. They certainly aren't a group that could compete with the likes of Rick James, The Barkays, Lakeside, or any of the other funk groups of the past. However, as far as today's music scene goes, yeah, they are the best that are out there. In fact, they are the only thing funky out there these days other than Prince. Everyone else is a bunch of slow dead asses. Jamiroquai ain't a group that could compete with real funk bands of the past because they are not a real Funk group in the first place... Period... Only white folks think that Jamiroquai is funky anyway... Blah disgusting... | |
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CrozzaUK said: krayzie said: Nope it was NOT an extension of the Philly sound, in the black community we don't celebrate Disco era... Disco has nothing to do with black music... We have not created that crap...
It has been created by white producers to make money... Riiiiight, becuse if you say it again & again, it becomse true yeah????? please, just because it doesnt fit in with you're line of argument don't just lie to make amends. simply the worst post you've ever given. Lame, just lame. Disco is blatantly an extension of the philly sound, & motown for that. You have some pathetic racial hang up about the entire thing. good luck with it, i aint gonna indulge it any further. [Edited 6/7/08 20:07pm] Nope, it's pure creation of white producers... Disco has nothing to do with black music... Two different music genres... And I have no "racial" hang up about the entire thing... | |
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vainandy said: krayzie said:
Nope it was NOT an extension of the Philly sound, in the black community we don't celebrate Disco era... Disco has nothing to do with black music... We have not created that crap... See, your problem is that you are young and come from the shit hop generation. Yeah, to your young eyes, it would look like the black community doesn't celebrate disco when all you see these days are little young shit hoppers who don't have an ounce of rhythm to even get past midtempo but yet they have the nerve to talk about disco or anything else that isn't as slow and dull as their music. See, your problem is that you're the typical white guy who believes to know absolutly everything about black music, black culture, black people. But everything you say is based on terrible stereotypes and clichés. So you have the nerves to speak about "the black community" likeifyou were actually black. You know this is typically white... This typical condescending white guy who thinks to know more about black music abo... The funny thing is you'll never see black people doing that... Black folks never pretend to know more about what white culture ... In fact we don't care... So when you start talking about "the black community", I don't know exactly what you want to say... You'll never see me bragging about white music this and white people that... I only speak about what I really know... You know you'll never see black folks doing that... The music I grew up with as a kid wasn't Glorya Gaynor and Donna Summer but Marvin Gaye, James Brown and Stevie Wonder. Straight black music... Black people have never celebrated Disco era... vainandy said: If you don't think the black community was into disco, go back and watch some of the old episodes of "Soul Train" from 1978 and 1979. 80 percent of the songs played are disco and it certainly isn't a room full of white folks dancing to it. And the black people out in the discos, nightclubs, and skating rinks during that era with disco as the soundtrack. And I can't tell you how many disco records I borrowed from black friends during that era and lent some of mine to them also...some of which I never got back.
That doesn't sound like a group of disco haters to me. See, you got to look past this shit hop generation because yeah, they do hate disco.This is what I was saying, you're the typical white guy... So because you watched few episodes of Soul Train where you saw a bunch of negroes dancing on Disco tracks, that's enough to conclude that "the black community" was into Disco"...
That's scary... My friend, Like most black people, I made my musical learning from my family... So as a kid, I was influenced by what my mom and my dad, my uncles and aunts and old sisters and brothers, and cousins used to play at home... And as well as the music played in my neighbors, my friends... Just like any black person... And what was played at home was really what black people trully love, real black music by black people... It was Not Disco crap you could see on TV... It was clear from anybody that the whole Disco movement was just a marketing ploy... It was cheap music with no soul, no substance nothin behind... and it died quickly when people get tired of that crap... Isn't it strange that while all the great funk/soul acts of the 70's are still well remembered, respected and celebrated, your Disco acts are completely forgotten ???
But what I do find extraordinary interesting is how you have constantly bashed Whitney Houston for making watered down music but praised Disco that exploited black music ... To me that's laughable, because Disco acts like Donna Summer is no different from Whitney Houston, I would even say that Whitney was better because at least she could sing like no other... So it doesn't surprise me that you confuse Funk music and Disco... [Edited 6/22/08 15:46pm] | |
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CrozzaUK said: krayzie said: Nope, I already told you how and where disco was "created", it was invented and created by white producers who wanted to make $$$$ with the black sound for WHITE PEOPLE... They saw the soul/funk music movement and decided to create their own version (watered down music, soulless, and rythmless) to please the white audience and make a lot of cash... And my friend if you don't understand the difference between Black music and white music go listen to the original version of Never can say goodbye and the Disco white crap version of Glorya Gaynor... Absolutely disgusting and awful... [Edited 6/6/08 11:16am] you know in that post you simply come across as a horrible racist. I love how you're "disco consipracy" is thrust out there as some kind of radical notion. good one. you're ideas still suck. oh and disco can be great. just ask the legendary WHITE producer Nile Rodgers. Failing that ask the sugarhill gang who STOLE his music. Failing that ask Grandmaster flash, who also sampled him. In fact disregard his entire musical legacy for the sake of your argument, becuase Disco is evil and white. mmmhmmm. sigh. First of all nothing I said was racist Number 2, make no mistake, I've never said Nile Rodgers sucks, he's a great producer, I just regret that he sold out to the white audience... To me Nile Rodgers is not a Disco producer like Moroder... But yes, Disco is evil and white... Everything that exploited and kill black music is evil and white... | |
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:grabs a seat and a bag of Cheesy Poofs: | |
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SoulAlive said: More ignorance in this thread,I see
 I wonder why I even bother responding.
krayzie said I really don't care what white folks have to say about black music
I'm not White. I don't care what you are, but what I do know is you ain't black, no way never SoulAlive said: If disco was truly a "white-created thing",as you insist,then how do you explain the countless black artists and bands who were making this music in the late 70s? Even Michael Jackson's 'Off The Wall' album (the biggest selling "black" album of the 70s) is mostly disco.
My friend, just because some black artists made Disco oriented songs means Disco is black ... Like I said before, some black artists made Disco oriented songs for money... Disco was the most popular music genre of that time, and it was clear that some black acts wanted to get their part... Not for the love of Disco music... It doesn't change the fact that Disco is a white creation... Created by white producers to exploit the black sound... SoulAlive said: Go and find some R&B Billboard charts from the late 70s.Most of the songs that charted were disco.If blacks didn't care about this music,then how come these songs were topping the R&B charts back then? Your ignorance is incredible.Are you really gonna sit up here and pretend that blacks weren't buying stuff like Chic,GQ,Donna Summer,Anita Ward,etc in the late 70s?
I dont have to find r&B Billboard charts... Black people have never taken Disco genre serioulsy... Period Artists labeled as Disco have never been respected artistically whastover (black or white) SoulAlive said: One problem with your theory: Many disco records were written and produced by black producers.Did you ever hear of Freddie Perren? How about Patrick Adams? What about Niles Rodgers and Bernard Edwards? Look these people up and find photos of them. Nope, The biggest Disco producers were white, they were those who produced most ofthe Disco acts... Just because some black folks made Disco songs means Disco is a black thing... SoulAlive said: Disco music was more creative,more interesting,more danceable and more fun than 90% of the modern-day R&B and shit-hop.I can't even dance to today's boring,midtempo shit.It puts me to sleep.Disco music had faster tempos.The 'Saturday Night Fever' soundtrack sold over 35 million copies worldwide.How many modern-day shit-hop albums are selling like that?? How many modern-day R&B albums are selling like that?? How many modern-day albums period are having that kinda impact? I don't care about what you think about modern r&b music... The point remains the same, Disco is a pure creation of white people ... There was nothing artistic, it was like the cool thing of the moment... Disco had nothing creative... And it doesn't surprise me that it died so quickly... SoulAlive said: You go ahead....enjoy your "artistic" Beyonce and R.Kelly CDs.I'll take Chic and Donna Summer over that crap anyday! . Excuse me but why do you mention Beyonce and R.Kelly ??? I don't care about Beyonce and R.Kelly | |
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MajesticOne89 said: elem55 said: Ask most rappers what they are going to do after that put together a CD and you get a blank stare. Because they dont know the business side. The days of sending a promo kit into a record company and being discovered were over a long time ago. so how does one (in any genre on of music) get discovered nowadays? There are a few ways, pay an entertainment attorney a couple of hundred thousand dollars to shop you around, f--k for tracks like some have said, be at the right place at the right time etc.. We gonna come on with the come on, gonna get down with the get down! | |
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violetblues said: elem55 said: Young Grasshopper, you can be a rapper without being a celebrity or being famous. That is called being an unsucessfull rapper. I know lots of great rappers that are trying to make it but they wont. You know why? Because being a great rapper is probably 1/4 of the battle. You see laying down some beats and lyrics is really the easy part. Ask most rappers what they are going to do after that put together a CD and you get a blank stare. Because they dont know the business side. The days of sending a promo kit into a record company and being discovered were over a long time ago. I think the is greatness in every style of music, you just have to dig! back on subject, NOT everybody can make a rap record even IF you are a talented musician, ...ask Prince! Unfortunatly you have to dig a lot deeper when it comes to rap. back on subject, ANYBODY can make a rap record! But everybody cant make a great rap record. Prince made a rap record but not a great one. We gonna come on with the come on, gonna get down with the get down! | |
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vainandy said: I'm not White.  He's living up to his screen name, ain't he. Don't worry, he called Timmy84 white also. I guess when he discovered that a whore as black as me is actually white, he just doesn't know what the hell people are these days.
I'm the one who exposed your whiteness, It was crystal clear at the moment when you claimed "fuck singing" that you couldn't be black, impossible... And it becomes even more obvious when you made all these crazy statements about black music and Disco...
Only a white guy would say "fuck singing"... And yes Timmy894 is white, go read what he has to say about Michael Jackson's thriller and racism in the music industry ... He sounds just like SoulAlive, denying racism and shit... | |
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Cinnie said: elem55, Rap is not easy to do WELL.
You could say rock music is easy too. Look how many children form rock bands the week they pick up a guitar. That is correct. But rock requires you to know how to play guitars, drums and vocals and learn how to play chords. Rap doesn't require you to do these things. It's easier to put words together to rap. It's just the path of least resistance for most young rappers. We gonna come on with the come on, gonna get down with the get down! | |
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krayzie said: See, your problem is that you're the typical white guy who believes to know absolutly everything about black music, black culture, black people. But everything you say is based on terrible stereotypes and clichés. So you have the nerves to speak about "the black community" likeifyou were actually black.
You know this is typically white... This typical condescending white guy who thinks to know more about black music abo... The funny thing is you'll never see black people doing that... Black folks never pretend to know more about what white culture ... In fact we don't care... Even though this is more of a personal battle between vainandy and krayzie, I have to agree with krayzie in this context. There are several of what I would call so-called "white experts on black culture" on this Web site. [Edited 7/8/08 9:00am] | |
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krayzie said: vainandy said: He's living up to his screen name, ain't he. Don't worry, he called Timmy84 white also. I guess when he discovered that a whore as black as me is actually white, he just doesn't know what the hell people are these days.
I'm the one who exposed your whiteness, It was crystal clear at the moment when you claimed "fuck singing" that you couldn't be black, impossible... And it becomes even more obvious when you made all these crazy statements about black music and Disco...
Only a white guy would say "fuck singing"... And yes Timmy894 is white, go read what he has to say about Michael Jackson's thriller and racism in the music industry ... He sounds just like SoulAlive, denying racism and shit... I can't really say anything about the topic, but why do you think someone would lie on a message board that they are black or not? That sounds nonsense to me, and your "blacks wouldn't say that about black music and disco" even feels a bit racist to me... | |
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LiveToTell86 said: I can't really say anything about the topic, but why do you think someone would lie on a message board that they are black or not? That sounds nonsense to me, and your "blacks wouldn't say that about black music and disco" even feels a bit racist to me...
Well, vainandy is white. And as for Timmy84, he is black but I speculate krayzie is calling him "white" in the context of being racially unconscious. And please explain how the last sentence classifies as "racist." | |
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LittleAmy said: LiveToTell86 said: I can't really say anything about the topic, but why do you think someone would lie on a message board that they are black or not? That sounds nonsense to me, and your "blacks wouldn't say that about black music and disco" even feels a bit racist to me...
Well, vainandy is white. And as for Timmy84, he is black but I speculate krayzie is calling him "white" in the context of being racially unconscious. And please explain how the last sentence classifies as "racist." No, he was talking about SoulAlive. Krayzie doesn't believe that he's black. The last sentence sounded a bit racist or more like condescending because it was like "you can't be black if you don't know as much about music as I do". | |
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LiveToTell86 said: No, he was talking about SoulAlive. Krayzie doesn't believe that he's black.
The last sentence sounded a bit racist or more like condescending because it was like "you can't be black if you don't know as much about music as I do". What I said in regards to Timmy84 also would apply to SoulAlive, but I would ask krayzie to clarify it. Actually, the comment krazyie made was part of a running conversation with vainandy so the part you clipped out doesn't quite have the full context to it. | |
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LittleAmy said: LiveToTell86 said: No, he was talking about SoulAlive. Krayzie doesn't believe that he's black.
The last sentence sounded a bit racist or more like condescending because it was like "you can't be black if you don't know as much about music as I do". What I said in regards to Timmy84 also would apply to SoulAlive, but I would ask krayzie to clarify it. Actually, the comment krazyie made was part of a running conversation with vainandy so the part you clipped out doesn't quite have the full context to it. Well OK then. Just that this whole thread seems to be weird to me, especially some of Krayzie's comments. | |
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LiveToTell86 said: Well OK then. Just that this whole thread seems to be weird to me, especially some of Krayzie's comments.
I wouldn't say what some of krazyie said is weird as much as it shows there are different nuances to racial issues among black people that some white people on the outside don't quite understand. | |
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elem55 said: Cinnie said: elem55, Rap is not easy to do WELL.
You could say rock music is easy too. Look how many children form rock bands the week they pick up a guitar. That is correct. But rock requires you to know how to play guitars, drums and vocals and learn how to play chords. Rap doesn't require you to do these things. It's easier to put words together to rap. It's just the path of least resistance for most young rappers. just diigging--I agree to a point. rap doesn't require knowing how to sing. but iI feel that if a rap song isn't written correctly and is not appealing. it gets booed too. and sampling for the music takes hours as well. That is what I gathered out of rap music. nipsy | |
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[quote] krayzie said: vainandy said: See, your problem is that you're the typical white guy who believes to know absolutly everything about black music, black culture, black people. But everything you say is based on terrible stereotypes and clichés. So you have the nerves to speak about "the black community" likeifyou were actually black. You know this is typically white... This typical condescending white guy who thinks to know more about black music abo... The funny thing is you'll never see black people doing that... Black folks never pretend to know more about what white culture ... In fact we don't care... So when you start talking about "the black community", I don't know exactly what you want to say... You'll never see me bragging about white music this and white people that... I only speak about what I really know... You know you'll never see black folks doing that... The music I grew up with as a kid wasn't Glorya Gaynor and Donna Summer but Marvin Gaye, James Brown and Stevie Wonder. Straight black music... Black people have never celebrated Disco era... vainandy said: If you don't think the black community was into disco, go back and watch some of the old episodes of "Soul Train" from 1978 and 1979. 80 percent of the songs played are disco and it certainly isn't a room full of white folks dancing to it. And the black people out in the discos, nightclubs, and skating rinks during that era with disco as the soundtrack. And I can't tell you how many disco records I borrowed from black friends during that era and lent some of mine to them also...some of which I never got back.
That doesn't sound like a group of disco haters to me. See, you got to look past this shit hop generation because yeah, they do hate disco.This is what I was saying, you're the typical white guy... So because you watched few episodes of Soul Train where you saw a bunch of negroes dancing on Disco tracks, that's enough to conclude that "the black community" was into Disco"...
That's scary... My friend, Like most black people, I made my musical learning from my family... So as a kid, I was influenced by what my mom and my dad, my uncles and aunts and old sisters and brothers, and cousins used to play at home... And as well as the music played in my neighbors, my friends... Just like any black person... And what was played at home was really what black people trully love, real black music by black people... It was Not Disco crap you could see on TV... It was clear from anybody that the whole Disco movement was just a marketing ploy... It was cheap music with no soul, no substance nothin behind... and it died quickly when people get tired of that crap... Isn't it strange that while all the great funk/soul acts of the 70's are still well remembered, respected and celebrated, your Disco acts are completely forgotten ???
But what I do find extraordinary interesting is how you have constantly bashed Whitney Houston for making watered down music but praised Disco that exploited black music ... To me that's laughable, because Disco acts like Donna Summer is no different from Whitney Houston, I would even say that Whitney was better because at least she could sing like no other... So it doesn't surprise me that you confuse Funk music and Disco... [Edited 6/22/08 15:46pm] You can learn your music from your family, teachers, pastors, or whoever you want to. All that means is that you have their taste, not your own. And black people, just like any other people are not all alike and don't all have the same tastes. I don't care if I had just stepped off the boat from China and didn't speak a word of English. Even someone like that has eyes and can see that...if black people are all over the TV dancing to disco on their own shows, not just white shows, all over black radio (not just white radio), and all over the dance floor arm in arm with me on "soul nights" in the skating rinks (not the average nights where white people came) and borrowing and lending disco records with myself, as well as listening to disco at each others' houses....then that means black people liked disco. The bottom line is, I was there experiencing the era firsthand with a mind of my own. You, on the other hand, were in diapers and only have the knowledge of what other people have told you (and apparently people that didn't like disco anyway). There's nothing left to discuss, I was there and you weren't. And I don't care if I'm white, black, Chinese, Puerto Rican, or Iranian. End of discussion. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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krayzie said: vainandy said: He's living up to his screen name, ain't he. Don't worry, he called Timmy84 white also. I guess when he discovered that a whore as black as me is actually white, he just doesn't know what the hell people are these days.
I'm the one who exposed your whiteness, It was crystal clear at the moment when you claimed "fuck singing" that you couldn't be black, impossible... And it becomes even more obvious when you made all these crazy statements about black music and Disco...
Only a white guy would say "fuck singing"... And yes Timmy894 is white, go read what he has to say about Michael Jackson's thriller and racism in the music industry ... He sounds just like SoulAlive, denying racism and shit... Expose what? The only way to expose someone is if they are hiding something to begin with. I've never hidden anything. A lot of people assumed I was black but any time I was asked, I never lied. And as for someone putting 100% emphasis on singing rather than rhythm, that sounds more like stuffy 86 year old white people that are into opera rather than black people. The black people I grew up with were more like...."did you hear that bad ass bass line" rather than "did you hear how good that person sang". However, people of all races have various tastes. As I said before, you aren't a full fledged racist, you are just a little wannabe racist in training. And when in the hell has SoulAlive ever denied racism? Any fool knows it exists. Hell, you are proof of that. . . . [Edited 7/8/08 9:00am] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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