ehuffnsd said:

Put down your Immaculate Collection liner notes.

ehuffnsd said:

I'm using "dance music" as a generic term, not as a definitive term to describe a sub-style in this context.

RipHer2Shreds said:

shush you i wasn't reading it it was from memory.

ehuffnsd said:

I assumed you weren't actually reading it at the time. I was teasing. But I do remember that in the liner notes.

vainandy said:

Is he? I could've sworn he posted his picture here a while back and he wasn't black.

RipHer2Shreds said:

vainandy said:

RipHer2Shreds said:

Don't steal my thunder. don't make go drag diva on you.

midnightmover said:

I almost spilled my coffee!!

For the record,I have NEVER posted my picture here.Secondly,if my race is in doubt,just ask Sassybritches,Stymie or Heartbeatocean.They've all met me,so I'm prerry sure that they can confirm my race

SoulAlive said:

I wasn't arguing, I was just surprised 'cos you posted some picture of a guy holding some CDs who I thought was you. No biggie.

SoulAlive said:

i've never met you but i've always known that a straight black man that loved Madonna was ok in my book. and i thought everyone knew.

There is no denying that disco was a huge crossover music. If it wasn't, I would have never have been exposed to it and would never have switched to black radio in the year 1980.

Krayzie is saying that black people hated disco and that only white people were listening to it, which is not only a lie, but a damn lie. Disco was all over "Soul Train", the skating rinks which were playing disco at the time were full of black people, every black friend I have and damn near every black person I have ever met from my own generation was into disco. Even though I didn't start listening to black radio until 1980, even in that particular year, black radio was playing left over disco from 1979 such as Donna Summer's "Sunset People". And even years later, they would slip in a disco song such as Anita Ward's "Ring My Bell" when they felt like playing an old track.




I agree and that is what I mean when I call disco speeded up funk. A lot of the funk that was out during the disco era was influenced by it and was faster and more for the dance floor than previous funk. Also, the funk that came after disco's death was still fast and for the dance floor. As I said before, I was first exposed to disco on pop radio and loved it. I remember very well when it died in late 1979/early 1980. When I love something, I don't drop it just because everyone else does, I search it out. That's when I got into black radio and started listening to it exclusively. The funk at the time was very similar to disco because it was fast and for the dance floor and in the actual year 1980, the funk even sounded like disco. If it hadn't, I never would have switched to black radio. I would have just continued listening to pop radio and bitched about how rock and new wave killed disco and ruined music, just like I have been bitching about Shitney Houston killing funk and ruining music.
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[Edited 6/9/08 7:35am]

He is a horrible racist. I'm gonna have to give him some of this white dick to turn him around.

[quote]

SoulAlive said:

He's living up to his screen name, ain't he. Don't worry, he called Timmy84 white also. I guess when he discovered that a whore as black as me is actually white, he just doesn't know what the hell people are these days.

graecophilos said:

yeah that was kind of my idea. ill lay off the irony for a while.

It was definately reclaimed by the gay community. House music was nothing more than a more modernized version of disco. When I first started going to gay clubs in 1990, house music was the majority of what was playing and I rarely heard it on the radio or anywhere else except the gay clubs. When house gradually started fading out in the gay clubs in the mid to late 1980s and shit hop entered, that's when I finally gave up on current music altogether and started listening to old music only. House music was my last resort after funk died and shit hop even took over it also.

The original disco of the 1970s itself was huge in the gay community from what I've read. I've even heard rumors that it started in the gay community. I don't know if that's true but I know a lot of people think it did and that's the real reason disco gets the hate that it gets these days, especially from the younger black (and white) generation who is into shit hop which is the most homophobic genre ever. After disco's death in the early 1980s, the only people I ever heard shitting on disco were the white people into rock and new wave. I rarely heard a black person shit on disco in those days. It wasn't until shit hop took over in the 1990s that I heard large amounts of black people shitting on disco.
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[Edited 6/9/08 8:09am]

vainandy said:

The only possible explanation I can offer for krayzie's logic is the disco era seems to be regarded differently among black music outlets vs. white music outlets, then and now.

Whenever I hear '70s segments or '70s formats for black radio stations, I rarely (if ever) hear purely disco songs on those formats. Some formats even stay away from songs that have a disco-influenced sound, like EWF's "Boogie Wonderland." Conversely, the white radio stations I hear that do play disco segments or concentrate on across-the-board type formats play those types of songs or songs that have disco elements.

Also, both outlets seem to have different definitions for "disco." The white outlets with the '70s/disco formats tend to play uptempo songs from black artists past the disco era and lump them in with that sub-style. I've heard several stations play The Dazz Band's "Let It Whip" or EWF's "Let's Groove" and incorrectly call them disco songs.

That's not even counting an act like Donna Summer, who is a staple on the retro '70s white formats but it's been a long time since I've heard one of her songs on the black similar formats. Like I said earlier, some of her hit songs from 1977 to 1980 were not played on the black formats regularly and were not as popular then (some of showings on the then-Billboards Black Singles charts are a little sketchy, as I said earlier) and they aren't going to played now. Conversely, I would be surprised to hear Instant Funk's "I Got My Mind Made Up" on a white '70s/disco-era format.
[Edited 6/9/08 8:44am]

I think that depends mainly on location. We have a white oldies station in my area and whenever they play something from a black artist, it is always something disco, or a crossover artist from the 1980s such as Michael Jackson, Prince, Lionel Richie, The Pointer Sisters, etc. The key word is crossover. The station caters to a white audience so they are only going to play black artists that white people are aware of.

We don't have a full fledged black oldies station in my area. So many of the current blues artists live right here in Mississippi so there is a blues station and that's what a lot of black older people listen to down here. However, one particular black station in my area which is black run, and has been since the 1970s, is still around. In the early 1990s when shit hop took over, they switched their format to a "Soft Soul" format and they only play slow music (no rap, it's even in their slogan) from current artists and old slow music also. They throw in an old fast song every now and then, especially on the "Lunch Time Oldies Hour", but other than that, not too often. However, on Saturday afernoons from around 11 a.m. to 5 p.m., they play nothing but old school and, when they do, they throwdown. They play funk from the 1970s and 1980s, they even go back to the 1960s sometimes. In the middle of the funk, they will play a disco song in a heartbeat like Anita Ward's "Ring My Bell", Sister Sledge's "We Are Family", Foxy's "Get Off", Edwin Starr's "Happy Radio", Donna Summer's "Hot Stuff", Cheryl Lynn's "Got To Be Real" etc. No, I've never heard them throw on something like The Village People or The Bee Gees, but they definately throw in some other disco.




Very true. The white oldies station in my area (a Clear Channel station), used to play disco only on Saturday nights. They used to play The Dazz Band's "Let It Whip", and "Let's Groove" by EWF, like you mention. The dumb asses would also throw in some stuff like Rick James "Super Freak", The Gap Band "You Dropped A Bomb On Me", and even Midnight Star's "Electricity". Most white people during the early 1980s hated disco so every time they hear an old song from a black artist from the early 1980s, they immediately think it's disco. Especially since they didn't listen to a lot of these songs while they were popular. Combine that with a white Clear Channel exucutive who programs it along with disco, and their audience is none the wiser.
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[Edited 6/9/08 8:48am]

vainandy said:

There are quite a few black people I know who don't look at Cheryl Lynn's "Got to Be Real" and The Emotions' "Best of My Love" as disco songs, because they don't have the requisite disco elements you hear in, say, Van McCoy's "The Hustle." Hence, I hear those regularly on '70 black radio formats (personally, I don't consider them to be disco songs, but dancefloor jams that happened to be made in the disco period).

There always are going to be exceptions to the rule. Anita Ward's "Ring My Bell" is characterized as the ultimate one-hit wonder song, and while it's technically called a disco song it's also a song with a strong uptempo beat that gets people on the floor like "Got to Be Real" and "Best of My Love." Foxy's "Get Off" is one of those funk songs with the disco chant as the chorus.
[Edited 6/9/08 8:58am]

I never really understood the crusade against Disco, and frankly my dears, I couldn't give a flying fuck

It just seems like another form of music snobbery to me,,,,just as much as these mofos who shit on hip-hop thinking it killed music,,,right, Andy?

You guys need to hear J.Dilla and DJ Quik before you lash out on hip-hop
[Edited 6/9/08 9:05am]

vainandy said:

vainandy said:

I thought I upgraded you

Well if not, then you my dear is a certified Madame from no on mark this down, child

As I've always said, there has always been a fine line between disco and funk during the mid to late 1970s. A lot of people will consider The Isley Brother's "It's A Disco Night (Rock Don't Stop)" as a disco song, while I consider it a funk song, even though it has the word disco in the title. Same with Brick's "Dazz", or The Barkays' "Move Your Boogie Body". I would consider those funk as well. Rick James' "You And I", now that's a tough one. That one sounds kind of half and half. I've heard all these played in the middle of straight out disco such as Donna Summer or The Village People in a black club when they would have a disco themed evening, but I would never hear them on a white radio station with a disco night or a white nightclub with a disco themed evening.

As for stuff like Van McCoy, that's the type of music that fits the disco stereotype and it's not going to be played too often, or even at all, on too many black stations. Disco has gotten such hate from these shit hoppers as being "gay", that black stations aren't going to throw on something stereotypical like The Village People or The Bee Gees. However, I do remember hearing both those groups on black radio back in 1980. Homophobia has a lot to do with what gets played these days and what is hated. Back when those songs were popular, a lot of those same people were loving them but once they got the "gay" label, now they hate them.
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[Edited 6/9/08 9:21am]

vainandy said:

Well, I say the difference is in the beat structure. Disco always struck me as having a more constant beat (like Donna Summer's "Hot Stuff") along with the lush arrangements and at times high chorus singing. Funk songs have more of a 3/4 groove and are much more rhythmic (like Parliament's "Flash Light").

Of those songs you named, I don't consider Brick's "Dazz" or The Bar-Kays' "Move Your Boogie Body" disco songs by any stretch. In fact, "Move Your Boogie Body" sounded more like a P-Funk-inspired song to me.

The Isley Brothers' "It's A Disco Night (Rock Don't Stop)" had that stock 3+3 dancefloor sound. People also tend to forget that the term "disco" was also used to describe what we would call a "nightclub," so I never took that literally as The Isley Brothers making a disco song.

Rick James said in interviews he hated disco, and put the beginning of "You and I" on as an inside joke. Once the high singing ended, he got into pure funk mode.
[Edited 6/9/08 9:28am]

Wrong. Disco is hated because it's consider "gay". The people that hate shit hop hate it because it is what it is....shit hop. It wasn't always shit hop but it has been since the early 1990s. Nothing but a slow to midtempo beat with some talking over it. The only other music in it, if any, is someone else's record sampled (and slowed down to make it even worse).

Isn't the Madame the old whore that's running things and teaching those young whores the tricks of the trade? Yeah, that's me.

vainandy said:

Andrea

Cut the broken record shit and listen to the folks I mentioned. Its not always SAMPLED and its not always midtempo.

C'mon now you act like a fuckin' mule when it comes to "shit hop", give the sucka a chance.

Yeah, disco was short for discoteque and disco was the term for the music in them at the time. As for "You And I", the beginning is definately the part that sounds disco to me. The rest of the song, except for high parts by the ladies singing..."As far as I'm concerned, they all can go to helllll" sound like funk.

That's all I'm saying, so much of it has a fine line and so much of it has been mistaken, that it really doesn't matter whether it's officially disco or funk. They both were great music forms and the hate for disco is totally rediculous considering that a lot of the same people who used to love disco themselves while it was happening but didn't start hating it until later once it got the "gay" label, as if that's a bad thing. If anything, that's a good thing. As for someone young hating disco though, that's because they have been raised on nothing but slow music for most of their lifetime and these shit hoppers have really influenced their views. I remember in the 1990s asking some kids if they were going to the 95 South, Dis N Dat, and 69 Boyz concert (which is rap music but it is fast rap music), they replied..."I'm not going to see that disco shit". They are so used to slow dull shit, they hate anything else.
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[Edited 6/9/08 9:42am]

There are exceptions out there and the exceptions aren't shit hop, they are hip hop. Shit hop is the term for the bullshit.

I've listened to many rap groups over the years on up into the mid 1990s, many of which were sampled. I was loving The 2 Live Crew, Quad City DJs, 95 South, and stuff like that during the 1990s. They were rap songs but they were jams, not a bunch of slow opera tempoed shit. However, even if those groups were to come out with something new today, I wouldn't buy it because I'm burned out on it. There are only so many times that you can hear "Planet Rock" and "Egypt Egypt" sampled in every way possible before you get tired of it, even if it does sound good. It's just time for the entire genre both shit hop and hip hop to either die or go underground. Hell, it's lived it's long life, much longer than any other music (with old fuddy dud record executives seeing to that). It's time for people to move on and for music to do a complete change.

vainandy said:

IMO, the disco backlash became a lightning rod for a lot of reasons, which made it the perfect storm for retaliation. Not only in terms of sexual orientation, but also for racial and lifestyle purposes. White radio stations wanted to go back to a "more traditional rock" movement (a tacit attack at disco's mostly black music origins), which meant popular music became more segregated and homogenized.

Some listeners objected to the perceived sexual promiscuity and illegal drug use that had become associated with disco music. Others were put off by the exclusivity of the disco scene, especially in major clubs in large cities such as Studio 54, where bouncers only let in fashionably-dressed club-goers, celebrities and their hangers-on.

The reason why rap music survived the early '90s movement led by Tipper Gore and Delores Tucker is that it did not involve enough groups wanting to take it down. Thus, it became a generation/racial conflict that ended up letting it continue, thrive and now dominate popular music.
[Edited 6/9/08 10:06am]