vainandy said:

I have no lesson to learn from someone who confuses Funk with Disco, and claims that Jamiroquai is a great funk group...
[Edited 5/30/08 16:17pm]

While you wouldnt argue that a large number of the producers in later years of disco were white - Disco was basically an extension of the Philly sound which was pretty much born out of Motown. Like all forms of music - it was cynically picked up by record producers to make some $, but like hip hop, its development was very much routed in urban america. To say it isnt is just blind denial.

White european producers, namely Gorgio Moroder, developed the sound further - but Disco was already a recognised genre by then.

[quote]

krayzie said:

There's no confusion. Disco was simply a more modern sounding speeded up version of funk. When white people were listening to it, it was called "disco". However, it still survived after white people dropped it except it didn't have the name "disco". Early 80s funk was very similar to disco. Even the early rap records were similar to disco. When disco's influence finally left (which was years after disco's official "death"), that's when every thing slowed down and turned into a bunch of dull slow shit. In other words, what exists today.



I wouldn't exactly call them a great funk group. They certainly aren't a group that could compete with the likes of Rick James, The Barkays, Lakeside, or any of the other funk groups of the past. However, as far as today's music scene goes, yeah, they are the best that are out there. In fact, they are the only thing funky out there these days other than Prince. Everyone else is a bunch of slow dead asses.

I guess it was all a dream when I heard Donna Summmer's "Love Is In Control" or "She Works Hard For The Money" in the 1980s. Or Sister Sledge's "My Guy" and "BYOB". Or Evelyn King's "I'm In Love", "Action", Betcha She Don't Love You", "Love Come Down", etc. Or Cheryl Lynn's "Encore". I guess none of those songs existed in the 1980s.



Who doesn't care anymore? Today's generation. Hell, they don't care about funk, house music, or rock anymore either. Anything that sounds good, they hate. The fact that they don't care about disco doesn't mean shit because they are the reason for music being so dull these days anyway. I wouldn't expect them to care about disco.



Yes, but it was ass shakable which is the most important thing. Funk was ass shakable also. So was house music. Most songs that are "meaningful" are usually slow and dull as hell.



With the black sound? Aren't you the one that keeps harping that it wasn't black music. Well if it is a black artist recording the song with a black sound, then it's black music. You can't even get your story straight. It's understandable though because you didn't live through that era. You only know it from what you've read, which is usually written by some music critic that only likes dull music anyway.




Of course you do. Because you don't like anything that sounds good.
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[Edited 6/5/08 7:50am]

CrozzaUK said:

Nope it was NOT an extension of the Philly sound, in the black community we don't celebrate Disco era... Disco has nothing to do with black music... We have not created that crap...

It has been created by white producers to make money...

krayzie said:


Funny,I seem to recall Donna Summer (the Queen of Disco) having several big hits and albums in the 80s.Her latest CD just debuted in the Top 20.Niles Rodgers of Chic became one of the hottest producers of the 80s.Many of the other disco artists are still touring to this day.



So once again I ask....are you saying that Donna Summer and Chic (who were both recently nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame) have no talent? Are you saying that songs like Donna's "I Feel Love" (which basically started the whole techno movement) and Chic's "Good Times" (which has been sampled,stolen,borrowed and recycled on numerous other songs) weren't creative and highly influential? Many of the disco hits are much more creative and original than the boring,midtempo shit-hop that dominates the charts these days.



So I guess you're saying that Chic,Donna Summer,Tavares,Sister Sledge,Peaches and Herb,McFadden and Whitehead,Evelyn Champagne King,A Taste Of Honey,GQ,Heatwave,Edwin Starr,Odyssey,Cheryl Lynn,Michael Jackson,Diana Ross,Rose Royce,Barry White,Isaac Hayes,Gloria Gaynor,Ashford and Simpson and The Sylvers (artists who all enjoyed disco hits back then) aren't really "black",are they? Even Earth Wind and Fire (the biggest R&B/funk band of the 70s) recorded a disco hit,"Boogie Wonderland" in 1979.

You just don't wanna admit that,in the late 70s,disco pretty much was the new "black music".It wasn't just white people buying all those records!



I already told you how and where disco was "created" But since you apparently don't pay attention,let's try this again.In the early 70s,DJs used to take R&B albums and play the obscure,non-single tracks.The earliest disco records were coming from Gamble and Huff and the lush sounds of Barry White (On Rhino's extensive 4-CD 'Disco Box" set,the first song is "Love's Theme" by the Love Unlimited Orchestra,produced by Barry White).Disco is an extension of R&B.It's just more club-oriented,made especially for dancing.If you don't know the history of disco,you need to keep your mouth shut until you go back and study it.

krayzie said


I don't really care what today's generation thinks of disco.This is a generation that buys CDs by Fergie and R.Kelly.Nuff said!




Funny,I could say the exact same thing about 99% of the shit hop and R&B that gets played on the radio today



Then I guess you're calling Kenny Gamble a liar? I once read an interview where he proudly acknowledged that their music influenced the disco sounds that dominated the late 70s.

CrozzaUK said:

Exactly.The Bee Gees have said that,when they recorded the 'Saturday Night Fever' songs,they were heavily influenced by R&B/soul music.That's the sound they were aiming for.Disco was really an extension of the soul/funk sounds of the early 70s,including the Philly Sound.

CrozzaUK said:

Disco is still very much alive.It's just now referred to as "dance music".This includes many sub-genres like techno,electronica,freestyle,etc.It's also worth noting that many of today's dance music artists (Jamiroquai,Sophie Ellis Bextor,even Madonna) are basically making modern-day disco music.



It's interesting that disco records never contained samples,they used real music,real instruments.Rap comes along and samples old disco beats/basslines and it's considered more "creative" than disco was

SoulAlive said:

Nope, she was done by the beginning of 80's... She will always remembered as an has been Disco artist of the 70's... Period

And Niles Rodgers was only a hot producer from the late to very early 80's...

SoulAlive said:

Donna Summer has never been considered as a great talent of black music... White folks produced her music anyway... Pure white shit...
Garbage crap for white people...
And Chic could have been a great black group if their music wasn't so watered down...

SoulAlive said:

HAHAHAHAH

Just because some black artists sold out to the Disco made them Disco... Diana Ross was there way before Disco crap started, same for Isaac Hayes... Hell, even James Brown made Disco songs...

Donna summer, Gloria Gaynor, were making white music for white people... They died with Disco... White crap music...

SoulAlive said:

That statement made my day...

SoulAlive said:

Nope, I already told you how and where disco was "created", it was invented and created by white producers who wanted to make $$$$ with the black sound for WHITE PEOPLE... They saw the soul/funk music movement and decided to create their own version (watered down music, soulless, and rythmless) to please the white audience and make a lot of cash...


And my friend if you don't understand the difference between Black music and white music go listen to the original version of Never can say goodbye and the Disco white crap version of Glorya Gaynor... Absolutely disgusting and awful...
[Edited 6/6/08 11:16am]

SoulAlive said:

@

I really don't care what white folks have to say about black music...

The fact that some white folks think Funk=Disco confirms everything I have always thought...

SoulAlive said:

Oh, yes, Kenny Gamble is right, black music influenced Disco producers... That's was the point of Disco music... But not the other way around, never...

And we can say the same for black music in general, black music influenced white music, not the other way around... We create, you steal...





[/quote]

Only white folks think Disco has something to do with black music... You dream, black people don't care about Disco... Everybody knows it was a plot by white producers to make money... Period, there's nothing artistic about Disco...
[Edited 6/6/08 11:05am]

I'd like to know what you guys consider funk and what's allready disco?
And who is there to judge what's soulless??

Are "Let's Groove", "September" from EWF disco or commercial soul/funk? Do you think those songs have no soul?

Is "Ain't No Stopping Us Now" disco? If so, do you think it's soulless?

What About "Dance Dance Dance"? Isn't this brainless stuff? Has it much soul?? And if, why? Because it's from Chic, artitsts you respect? But the song itself still is pretty dumb. (of course, extremely danceable..)

I see that there are many artitsts of the late 70s that jumped on that disco band waggon. But I think it's unfair to decide what has soul or not and what devided a song from funk or disco?

graecophilos said:

Actually, you're playing into what krayzie is saying. There is an assumption from certain groups that virtually every black popular artist from, say, 1977 to 1982 was "a disco act," even though disco's demise is assumed to be in 1979 and most of these acts either were never associated with disco or maybe made one disco-oriented song.

For instance, the only disco-oriented hit Earth, Wind & Fire made, IMO, was "Boogie Wonderland." Yet it's not out of pocket for some people to regard songs such as "September" and "Let's Groove" incorrectly as disco songs, solely because of an association with eras.
[Edited 6/22/08 16:24pm]

Gloria Gaynor's cover of "Never Can Say Goodbye" was definitely one of the great tragedies of the twentieth century, not lagging far behind World War 1 and the holocaust. Can't say much for the rest of her catalogue either. Never saw what the fuss was about Donna Summer either. Chic were talented musicians but their songs were too lightweight to do anything for me, although I appreciate the sound Nile and Bernard created. The only real disco I liked was by people who were just moonlighting in that genre, The Bee Gees being the most obvious example.

midnightmover said:[quote]Gloria Gaynor's cover of "Never Can Say Goodbye" was definitely one of the great tragedies of the twentieth century, not lagging far behind World War 1 and the holocaust.

this is the greatest shit you ever said. As someone with jewish roots this comment made me extremely sick. you probably have to do your history lessons. but I never liked your comments. you're so ignorant and feel cool.

graecophilos said:[quote]

midnightmover said:

lol, I would think it was fairly obvious I was exaggerating ever so slightly. You people are so serious. Jesus. How about Vietnam, can I compare it to that? It was a pretty horrific cover version after all and deserves to be compared to other tragedies.

I know it was supposed to be funny. But it wasn't. There are things people should not make jokes about. You're selfish and ignorant. You hurt people.

See, your problem is that you are young and come from the shit hop generation. Yeah, to your young eyes, it would look like the black community doesn't celebrate disco when all you see these days are little young shit hoppers who don't have an ounce of rhythm to even get past midtempo but yet they have the nerve to talk about disco or anything else that isn't as slow and dull as their music.

If you don't think the black community was into disco, go back and watch some of the old episodes of "Soul Train" from 1978 and 1979. 80 percent of the songs played are disco and it certainly isn't a room full of white folks dancing to it. And the black people out in the discos, nightclubs, and skating rinks during that era with disco as the soundtrack. And I can't tell you how many disco records I borrowed from black friends during that era and lent some of mine to them also...some of which I never got back. That doesn't sound like a group of disco haters to me. See, you got to look past this shit hop generation because yeah, they do hate disco.

SoulAlive is black. See, anyone that defends music that isn't slow as hell, you immediately think they are white. You and opera singers would get along real well. They are slow as the music that you like and you could pretend that they are black to make you feel better.

krayzie said:

Riiiiight, becuse if you say it again & again, it becomse true yeah????? please, just because it doesnt fit in with you're line of argument don't just lie to make amends. simply the worst post you've ever given. Lame, just lame. Disco is blatantly an extension of the philly sound, & motown for that. You have some pathetic racial hang up about the entire thing. good luck with it, i aint gonna indulge it any further.
[Edited 6/7/08 20:07pm]

krayzie said:[quote]

SoulAlive said:

you know in that post you simply come across as a horrible racist. I love how you're "disco consipracy" is thrust out there as some kind of radical notion. good one. you're ideas still suck. oh and disco can be great. just ask the legendary WHITE producer Nile Rodgers. Failing that ask the sugarhill gang who STOLE his music. Failing that ask Grandmaster flash, who also sampled him. In fact disregard his entire musical legacy for the sake of your argument, becuase Disco is evil and white. mmmhmmm. sigh.

CrozzaUK said:

Did I miss the irony or what? Nile Rodgers is black.

More ignorance in this thread,I see I wonder why I even bother responding.

krayzie said


I'm not White.



If disco was truly a "white-created thing",as you insist,then how do you explain the countless black artists and bands who were making this music in the late 70s? Even Michael Jackson's 'Off The Wall' album (the biggest selling "black" album of the 70s) is mostly disco.



Go and find some R&B Billboard charts from the late 70s.Most of the songs that charted were disco.If blacks didn't care about this music,then how come these songs were topping the R&B charts back then? Your ignorance is incredible.Are you really gonna sit up here and pretend that blacks weren't buying stuff like Chic,GQ,Donna Summer,Anita Ward,etc in the late 70s?



One problem with your theory: Many disco records were written and produced by black producers.Did you ever hear of Freddie Perren? How about Patrick Adams? What about Niles Rodgers and Bernard Edwards? Look these people up and find photos of them.



Disco music was more creative,more interesting,more danceable and more fun than 90% of the modern-day R&B and shit-hop.I can't even dance to today's boring,midtempo shit.It puts me to sleep.Disco music had faster tempos.The 'Saturday Night Fever' soundtrack sold over 35 million copies worldwide.How many modern-day shit-hop albums are selling like that?? How many modern-day R&B albums are selling like that?? How many modern-day albums period are having that kinda impact?

You go ahead....enjoy your "artistic" Beyonce and R.Kelly CDs.I'll take Chic and Donna Summer over that crap anyday!



.
[Edited 6/9/08 5:40am]

LittleAmy said:

Disco existed before the term dance music. that term emerged with Shannon and Madonna's first album. Dance and it's subgenres are the child of Disco midwifed by Donna's I Feel Love. It did didn't die it was just reclaimed by the gay community.

SoulAlive said:

I wouldn't necessarily use Billboard magazine as a totally reliable source, particularly during its pre-Soundscan era. Singles charts were compiled from playlists reported by radio stations and sale reports by stores -- so at times the numbers were aggregated and not fully separated. For massive crossover acts like Donna Summer, there was this assumption that if her songs were played by white outlets then the black outlets were playing them (sometimes even more).

As it is, Summer's big hits from 1977 through 1980 ("Hot Stuff," "MacArthur Park," "On the Radio," etc.) generally fared better on the pop charts than on the soul charts. But to be honest, some of her hit songs I never heard on the black radio stations where I lived or traveled during that period. It's safe to say some black music fans were aware of songs like "Dim All the Lights" and "No More Tears (Enough Is Enough)" on sheer exposure because Summer was omnipresent during that period, but I heard those songs on the radio only if a pop station was playing them.

I'm in the middle between you and krayzie. As a person who was a teen-ager during the late '70s, there is some element of truth to what krayzie is saying (namely, the racial pullback from the disco hangover). But you're also right in that there were traditional soul acts who added elements of a disco sound to a song, if not the majority of an album. Obviously, Earth, Wind & Fire and L.T.D. were not disco acts, but they did make a song or two as part of that sub-style's popularity. IMO, that's no different than hearing acts like James Ingram and The Winans making New Jack Swing-created songs in the early '90s.
[Edited 6/22/08 16:25pm]

ehuffnsd said:

It's safe to say there were dance songs BEFORE there was disco -- it sounds like you're playing a game of semantics here.

Disco has its musical roots in late 1960s soul, especially the Philly and New York soul, both of which were evolutions of the Motown sound. The Philly Sound is typified by lavish percussion, which became a prominent part of mid-1970s disco songs.

LittleAmy said:

you're correct however the term Dance to discribe a genre of music wasn't used until after Disco.