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Music is one thing and business is another. It's called the music business and right now, it's more about the business.. In his thread on Al Green, tA referenced this quote from Kevin Eubanks regarding Music Business:
"Music is one thing and business is another. It's called the music business and right now, it's more about the business. This is not the age of the Artist. We don't count as much as we have in the past. It's sad. Those that have a talent for business will do better at this point. Those who have both will do the best. There was a time when an Artist was respected. That is not this day. This does not only pertain to music. It is pervasive in all the Arts today. It can also be seen in the absence of spirit in our society. The Arts or Spirit is the blade of grass sticking out of the block of cement. This society is looking for what can be held in hand, not what can be held in the heart. So what does the Artist matter? We are not material enough to matter." Care to comment and/or discuss?  "Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive."
Dalai Lama | |
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...
Yeah...this is a frequent discussion for those who actually do care about the music. Unfortunately all of us are in the minority. The entertainment companies decided long ago to put the emphasis on getting the maximum return for their investment, and that meant selling image...the music itself became an afterthought, at best. The sad part is that most people (generally speaking) aren't particularly passionate about the art of music. Again, most people just want something to dance to, something to fuck to, or something to put in the background and ignore. They'll buy only what the media tells them is the new, hot thing to buy. There's a lot of great new music around , but you're not going to hear it on Clear Channel or any major outlets...You actually have go and track it down nowadays, and honestly, most people just aren't going to be bothered with trying to do that I commented in another discussion that people may be vaguely aware that the music that gets the radio and TV airplay isn't as good, but they're not really that bothered by it... On a tangent, I think that an even sadder result is that many of the original music artists are now driven by some need to do something "modern", to the extent of both alienating their original fans and inadvertently driving away any new young music fans who are still attracted to the original sound. Companies want them to do collaborations with the latest new faces in showbiz, in order to increase sales... In the latest issue of Waxpoetics, Ahmir Questlove Thompson talks about getting that original feel with the new Al Green album, and at some point, he mentions the pressure of companies (and sometimes the artists themselves) in making the sound "current" ..." "I got my heart broken recording with Earth Wind and Fire... we came up with some great organic music, stuff that sounded as if the Ghost of Charles Stepney had come down to the studio, only to have Maurice White listen and reject it, claiming that "It sounds like 1975".... ...As if that was the worst insult. I understand an artists' need to keep doing new things, but does that always have to mean having people like will.i.am pasting their shit all over your music? ... [Edited 5/23/08 9:53am] " I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout | |
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Don't want to repeat myself, but the public is responsible for that...
We wouldn't complain about that if the public was more into real artists.... |
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paligap said:
The sad part is that most people (generally speaking) aren't particularly passionate about the art of music. Again, most people just want something to dance to, something to fuck to, or something to put in the background and ignore. They'll buy only what the media tells them is the new, hot thing to buy. Well, if dancing and fucking is what they are wanting, they certainly aren't going to find it in today's music. It's too slow to dance to and too fast to fuck to. You're right about having it for background music. It would be perfect to play in the background at a dog fight. There's a lot of great new music around , but you're not going to hear it on Clear Channel or any major outlets...You actually have go and track it down nowadays, and honestly, most people just aren't going to be bothered with trying to do that
You can say that again. Those damn monopolies aren't going to let anything else get an ounce of airplay that might jeopardize and possibly overthrow their cheap ass shit hop. And as far as having to go and track down good new music, that's exactly right also. People aren't going to search the highest mountains and swim the deepest oceans looking for it because they don't have the time or the money to do it. I know I don't. And besides that, it's just damn rediculous to have to search that hard when the radio should be playing some of the stuff anyway. I commented in another discussion that people may be vaguely aware that the music that gets the radio and TV airplay isn't as good, but they're not really that bothered by it...
I think a lot of people tend to take a backseat once they have kids. I don't have any kids (and don't want any of the little brats  ) so I really notice that today's music is a bunch of shit because I live to party and there ain't no damn party out there any more unless you like something as slow as classical music (shit hop) and I'm only 40, I'm not 87.
On a tangent, I think that an even sadder result is that many of the original music artists are now driven by some need to do something "modern", to the extent of both alienating their original fans and inadvertently driving away any new young music fans who are still attracted to the original sound. Companies want them to do collaborations with the latest new faces in showbiz, in order to increase sales...
And when the older artists sell out to the shit hop sound, I leave their music right where it belongs...in the record store collecting dust. I used to rush out and buy a new album from an old artist thinking I was going to get something good, only to be disappointed and afterwards, I would get pissed because they got some of my money and I absolutely despise shit hop and any resemblance to it. The good thing about it though, is that when they sell out, the younger generation usually doesn't buy it either. I hope they lose their shirts when they sell out. If they made something good, at least some of the old fans might buy it. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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paligap said: ...
On a tangent, I think that an even sadder result is that many of the original music artists are now driven by some need to do something "modern", to the extent of both alienating their original fans and inadvertently driving away any new young music fans who are still attracted to the original sound. Companies want them to do collaborations with the latest new faces in showbiz, in order to increase sales... In the latest issue of Waxpoetics, Ahmir Questlove Thompson talks about getting that original feel with the new Al Green album, and at some point, he mentions the pressure of companies (and sometimes the artists themselves) in making the sound "current" ..." "I got my heart broken recording with Earth Wind and Fire... we came up with some great organic music, stuff that sounded as if the Ghost of Charles Stepney had come down to the studio, only to have Maurice White listen and reject it, claiming that "It sounds like 1975".... ...As if that was the worst insult. I understand an artists' need to keep doing new things, but does that always have to mean having people like will.i.am pasting their shit all over your music? Wow, that's a shame. (still waiting for my renewal to kick in  )
I guess everyone can't be like Miles Davis and keep their Art ahead of the game while managing to retain the elements that made them great in the first place. Music, in general, has been devalued to zero today partially by the fact that anyone (with little to no effort) can get it for free. I can partially understand it when the music that's most accessible is so horrid why would anyone pay for it anyway. The digital age hasn't helped the situation either. Prior to the introduction of the cassette deck, it wasn't very easy to copy a vinyl record. 
tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said:
Prior to the introduction of the cassette deck, it wasn't very easy to copy a vinyl record. I had an 8 Track recorder. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: theAudience said:
Prior to the introduction of the cassette deck, it wasn't very easy to copy a vinyl record. I had an 8 Track recorder. I once tried to rethread one of those cassettes. Talk about a disaster. 
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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vainandy said: paligap said:
The sad part is that most people (generally speaking) aren't particularly passionate about the art of music. Again, most people just want something to dance to, something to fuck to, or something to put in the background and ignore. They'll buy only what the media tells them is the new, hot thing to buy. Well, if dancing and fucking is what they are wanting, they certainly aren't going to find it in today's music. It's too slow to dance to and too fast to fuck to. You're right about having it for background music. It would be perfect to play in the background at a dog fight.  I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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cubic61052 said: In his thread on Al Green, tA referenced this quote from Kevin Eubanks regarding Music Business:
"Music is one thing and business is another. It's called the music business and right now, it's more about the business. This is not the age of the Artist. We don't count as much as we have in the past. It's sad. Those that have a talent for business will do better at this point. Those who have both will do the best. There was a time when an Artist was respected. That is not this day. This does not only pertain to music. It is pervasive in all the Arts today. It can also be seen in the absence of spirit in our society. The Arts or Spirit is the blade of grass sticking out of the block of cement. This society is looking for what can be held in hand, not what can be held in the heart. So what does the Artist matter? We are not material enough to matter." Care to comment and/or discuss? Kevin was and still is right. Stockbrokers are more respected in the music industry than recording artists. And people wonder why I invented the slogan "F*** The RIAA". | |
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Okay, I can't be the only one shocked that Kevin Eubanks knows more than three words.
Anyway: http://prince.org/msg/8/258907 | |
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if wel all raise our kids to apreciate good music , then we can save music
anyway this article puts a light on subjects that we allready are aware of. | |
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I appreciate the "pervasive in all the arts today" thinking.
For decades it's been highly unlikely that the greatest writing would end on some best-seller list or that the greatest cinema would be found in the mega blockbuster that everyone must dutifully salute. Yeah, it hurts, especially for those who grew up with little knowledge of music and developed a great passion and got a near complete education in it, simply by flipping on a radio. So musical passion won't be as effortless to trip over anymore. In other words, over the past 10 or 15 years, music has joined the rest of the art forms. If you’re really interested in it, the work will become play and you'll uncover more greatness than you can possibly ever command. If you don’t have the time and/or passion, then you'll be much more susceptible to the rising tide of hype and fashion (fashion being the current hip value one associates with either popularity or the specific absence of it). Those who care to will find a way, a different way. And then this current generation can bemoan (as I have countless times) the loss of how they fell in love and how that’s hardly even possible anymore. | |
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I think it's a mistake to assume/claim that there are all these people that have little respect for the arts.
It's the industry, NOT the public, that has come to treat it as a prop to sell everything but music and that has flooded mainstream with this trash in order to do so. It's the people that so many say don't care, who created the technology to break out of this and are constantly improving and protecting it. The people don't want this crap. The companies that release this material are the ones supporting it as a part of their hustle. The company buys records,spins, and tickets. ITunes is a blip. Most people aren't coming out of their pocket for this garbage. It's bigger than music, but that's a different discussion. [Edited 5/24/08 19:34pm] | |
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theAudience said: Music, in general, has been devalued to zero today partially by the fact that anyone (with little to no effort) can get it for free.
I can partially understand it when the music that's most accessible is so horrid why would anyone pay for it anyway. The digital age hasn't helped the situation either. Forget the bad in all of it for a second and imagine what it would be like if this didn't exist.  | |
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This rant might be getting old. I believe it has never been easier to find good music and good art of all kinds. OMG, there is sooooo much out there - just click. It’s pretty dayum easy to be target specific with your searches, so it shouldn’t take long to find what you’re looking for.
Yes, the music business has been laid to rest, at least as we knew it and that’s a gtreat thing. The days of labels ripping off artist are gone, so are overpriced CD's. No longer are visual artists forced to pay galleries 50%+ to sell their work. If you’re talking about what you hear on your local radio station - why listen unless you’re looking for local news, weather and traffic. Internet radio is wild, enabling one to dial up any genre, song, artists desired...and it couldn't be better for independents/emerging artists. Music is going to have to be packaged differently to attract consumers enough to want to buy/have whatever it is they are offering. Artists with flash drives, subscriptions, goodies and exposure will do just fine. Managers, lawyers and accountants will start working in favor of the Artist. Conventional radio, as well as it does with advertisers who still haven’t quite figured out internet advertising will eventuallky abandon local radio. Radio knows this. It can’t compete. Anyone remember the Transistor radio? It’s back!! Itg’s called Daisy, with a rechargeable battery for 20 hours of wifi, supports all internet formats and can access over 6,000 stations around the globe. And that's just the beginning. The fair trade/cost of music will eventually sort itself and labels are starting to offer P2P downloads of their catelogues. I would say - move on and enjoy the arts. As for the Star system - it will NEVER be the way it was - and that’s a good thing. It was and still is way over the top. It urks me to see these below average so called 'stars' flaunting their wealth. Every part of the entertainment business, film included is going to get knocked down a peg... and who's in the drifver's seat. WE are and that's the beauty of it, YOU can simply ignore or support what you want to - and the industry will cater to you. S’all good. Click away. It really is a Brave New World. | |
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To put it simply, if you jam enough things at the people they will take what they can get. MEDIA took over everything, when you have 2 companies running everything, and then you have the "accounting" company (soundscan) in bed with the companies, you pretty much have a "hitler" like control on the media, and we all know why that control is happening, its to keep the people "dumb" and looking at our political system and just the things that have happend in the world the last decade you see how it works. To put it simply you saw alot of how "dumb" people are when that whole shit started with the "iPhone" and the whole "complaints" and the rebates, and it showed people's priorities and stupidity, but it is the culture now. The music industry is dead, plain and simple, Chuck D called this years ago, if you are still looking at a chart and thinking its real, than you have lost your mind, because its not. And this whole "monopoly" of ownership and MEDIA is illegal 100% but there is no "regulation" of it, there used to be, remember back in the 80's when Rupert Murdoch who owned FOX tried to buy the NY post, the Govt stepped in and said NO, thats a monopoly of media and tore up the deal, if they did that today, you would see people running for cover because everything would be broken up. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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An old Shania Twain interview which underscores the threads point.
http://www.rollingstone.c...atrix/page "The first time I saw the cover of Dirty Mind in the early 80s I thought, 'Is this some drag queen ripping on Freddie Prinze?'" - Some guy on The Gear Page | |
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Here's a reprint of the Courtney Love speech.
Courtney Love does the math The controversial singer takes on record label profits, Napster and "sucka VCs." Editor's note: This is an unedited transcript of Courtney Love's speech to the Digital Hollywood online entertainment conference, given in New York on May 16. By Courtney Love June 14, 2000 Today I want to talk about piracy and music. What is piracy? Piracy is the act of stealing an artist's work without any intention of paying for it. I'm not talking about Napster-type software. I'm talking about major label recording contracts. I want to start with a story about rock bands and record companies, and do some recording-contract math: This story is about a bidding-war band that gets a huge deal with a 20 percent royalty rate and a million-dollar advance. (No bidding-war band ever got a 20 percent royalty, but whatever.) This is my "funny" math based on some reality and I just want to qualify it by saying I'm positive it's better math than what Edgar Bronfman Jr. [the president and CEO of Seagram, which owns Polygram] would provide. What happens to that million dollars? They spend half a million to record their album. That leaves the band with $500,000. They pay $100,000 to their manager for 20 percent commission. They pay $25,000 each to their lawyer and business manager. That leaves $350,000 for the four band members to split. After $170,000 in taxes, there's $180,000 left. That comes out to $45,000 per person. That's $45,000 to live on for a year until the record gets released. The record is a big hit and sells a million copies. (How a bidding-war band sells a million copies of its debut record is another rant entirely, but it's based on any basic civics-class knowledge that any of us have about cartels. Put simply, the antitrust laws in this country are basically a joke, protecting us just enough to not have to re-name our park service the Phillip Morris National Park Service.) So, this band releases two singles and makes two videos. The two videos cost a million dollars to make and 50 percent of the video production costs are recouped out of the band's royalties. The band gets $200,000 in tour support, which is 100 percent recoupable. The record company spends $300,000 on independent radio promotion. You have to pay independent promotion to get your song on the radio; independent promotion is a system where the record companies use middlemen so they can pretend not to know that radio stations -- the unified broadcast system -- are getting paid to play their records. All of those independent promotion costs are charged to the band. Since the original million-dollar advance is also recoupable, the band owes $2 million to the record company. If all of the million records are sold at full price with no discounts or record clubs, the band earns $2 million in royalties, since their 20 percent royalty works out to $2 a record. Two million dollars in royalties minus $2 million in recoupable expenses equals ... zero! How much does the record company make? They grossed $11 million. It costs $500,000 to manufacture the CDs and they advanced the band $1 million. Plus there were $1 million in video costs, $300,000 in radio promotion and $200,000 in tour support. The company also paid $750,000 in music publishing royalties. They spent $2.2 million on marketing. That's mostly retail advertising, but marketing also pays for those huge posters of Marilyn Manson in Times Square and the street scouts who drive around in vans handing out black Korn T-shirts and backwards baseball caps. Not to mention trips to Scores and cash for tips for all and sundry. Add it up and the record company has spent about $4.4 million. So their profit is $6.6 million; the band may as well be working at a 7-Eleven. Of course, they had fun. Hearing yourself on the radio, selling records, getting new fans and being on TV is great, but now the band doesn't have enough money to pay the rent and nobody has any credit. Worst of all, after all this, the band owns none of its work ... they can pay the mortgage forever but they'll never own the house. Like I said: Sharecropping. Our media says, "Boo hoo, poor pop stars, they had a nice ride. Fuck them for speaking up"; but I say this dialogue is imperative. And cynical media people, who are more fascinated with celebrity than most celebrities, need to reacquaint themselves with their value systems. When you look at the legal line on a CD, it says copyright 1976 Atlantic Records or copyright 1996 RCA Records. When you look at a book, though, it'll say something like copyright 1999 Susan Faludi, or David Foster Wallace. Authors own their books and license them to publishers. When the contract runs out, writers gets their books back. But record companies own our copyrights forever. The system's set up so almost nobody gets paid. Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) Last November, a Congressional aide named Mitch Glazier, with the support of the RIAA, added a "technical amendment" to a bill that defined recorded music as "works for hire" under the 1978 Copyright Act. He did this after all the hearings on the bill were over. By the time artists found out about the change, it was too late. The bill was on its way to the White House for the president's signature. That subtle change in copyright law will add billions of dollars to record company bank accounts over the next few years -- billions of dollars that rightfully should have been paid to artists. A "work for hire" is now owned in perpetuity by the record company. Under the 1978 Copyright Act, artists could reclaim the copyrights on their work after 35 years. If you wrote and recorded "Everybody Hurts," you at least got it back to as a family legacy after 35 years. But now, because of this corrupt little pisher, "Everybody Hurts" never gets returned to your family, and can now be sold to the highest bidder. Over the years record companies have tried to put "work for hire" provisions in their contracts, and Mr. Glazier claims that the "work for hire" only "codified" a standard industry practice. But copyright laws didn't identify sound recordings as being eligible to be called "works for hire," so those contracts didn't mean anything. Until now. Writing and recording "Hey Jude" is now the same thing as writing an English textbook, writing standardized tests, translating a novel from one language to another or making a map. These are the types of things addressed in the "work for hire" act. And writing a standardized test is a work for hire. Not making a record. So an assistant substantially altered a major law when he only had the authority to make spelling corrections. That's not what I learned about how government works in my high school civics class. Three months later, the RIAA hired Mr. Glazier to become its top lobbyist at a salary that was obviously much greater than the one he had as the spelling corrector guy. The RIAA tries to argue that this change was necessary because of a provision in the bill that musicians supported. That provision prevents anyone from registering a famous person's name as a Web address without that person's permission. That's great. I own my name, and should be able to do what I want with my name. But the bill also created an exception that allows a company to take a person's name for a Web address if they create a work for hire. Which means a record company would be allowed to own your Web site when you record your "work for hire" album. Like I said: Sharecropping. Although I've never met any one at a record company who "believed in the Internet," they've all been trying to cover their asses by securing everyone's digital rights. Not that they know what to do with them. Go to a major label-owned band site. Give me a dollar for every time you see an annoying "under construction" sign. I used to pester Geffen (when it was a label) to do a better job. I was totally ignored for two years, until I got my band name back. The Goo Goo Dolls are struggling to gain control of their domain name from Warner Bros., who claim they own the name because they set up a shitty promotional Web site for the band. Orrin Hatch, songwriter and Republican senator from Utah, seems to be the only person in Washington with a progressive view of copyright law. One lobbyist says that there's no one in the House with a similar view and that "this would have never happened if Sonny Bono was still alive." By the way, which bill do you think the recording industry used for this amendment? The Record Company Redefinition Act? No. The Music Copyright Act? No. The Work for Hire Authorship Act? No. How about the Satellite Home Viewing Act of 1999? Stealing our copyright reversions in the dead of night while no one was looking, and with no hearings held, is piracy. It's piracy when the RIAA lobbies to change the bankruptcy law to make it more difficult for musicians to declare bankruptcy. Some musicians have declared bankruptcy to free themselves from truly evil contracts. TLC declared bankruptcy after they received less than 2 percent of the $175 million earned by their CD sales. That was about 40 times less than the profit that was divided among their management, production and record companies. Toni Braxton also declared bankruptcy in 1998. She sold $188 million worth of CDs, but she was broke because of a terrible recording contract that paid her less than 35 cents per album. Bankruptcy can be an artist's only defense against a truly horrible deal and the RIAA wants to take it away. Artists want to believe that we can make lots of money if we're successful. But there are hundreds of stories about artists in their 60s and 70s who are broke because they never made a dime from their hit records. And real success is still a long shot for a new artist today. Of the 32,000 new releases each year, only 250 sell more than 10,000 copies. And less than 30 go platinum. The four major record corporations fund the RIAA. These companies are rich and obviously well-represented. Recording artists and musicians don't really have the money to compete. The 273,000 working musicians in America make about $30,000 a year. Only 15 percent of American Federation of Musicians members work steadily in music. But the music industry is a $40 billion-a-year business. One-third of that revenue comes from the United States. The annual sales of cassettes, CDs and video are larger than the gross national product of 80 countries. Americans have more CD players, radios and VCRs than we have bathtubs. Story after story gets told about artists -- some of them in their 60s and 70s, some of them authors of huge successful songs that we all enjoy, use and sing -- living in total poverty, never having been paid anything. Not even having access to a union or to basic health care. Artists who have generated billions of dollars for an industry die broke and un-cared for. And they're not actors or participators. They're the rightful owners, originators and performers of original compositions. This is piracy. Technology is not piracy This opinion is one I really haven't formed yet, so as I speak about Napster now, please understand that I'm not totally informed. I will be the first in line to file a class action suit to protect my copyrights if Napster or even the far more advanced Gnutella doesn't work with us to protect us. I'm on [Metallica drummer] Lars Ulrich's side, in other words, and I feel really badly for him that he doesn't know how to condense his case down to a sound-bite that sounds more reasonable than the one I saw today. I also think Metallica is being given too much grief. It's anti-artist, for one thing. An artist speaks up and the artist gets squashed: Sharecropping. Don't get above your station, kid. It's not piracy when kids swap music over the Internet using Napster or Gnutella or Freenet or iMesh or beaming their CDs into a My.MP3.com or MyPlay.com music locker. It's piracy when those guys that run those companies make side deals with the cartel lawyers and label heads so that they can be "the labels' friend," and not the artists'. Recording artists have essentially been giving their music away for free under the old system, so new technology that exposes our music to a larger audience can only be a good thing. Why aren't these companies working with us to create some peace? There were a billion music downloads last year, but music sales are up. Where's the evidence that downloads hurt business? Downloads are creating more demand. Why aren't record companies embracing this great opportunity? Why aren't they trying to talk to the kids passing compilations around to learn what they like? Why is the RIAA suing the companies that are stimulating this new demand? What's the point of going after people swapping cruddy-sounding MP3s? Cash! Cash they have no intention of passing onto us, the writers of their profits. At this point the "record collector" geniuses who use Napster don't have the coolest most arcane selection anyway, unless you're into techno. Hardly any pre-1982 REM fans, no '60s punk, even the Alan Parsons Project was underrepresented when I tried to find some Napster buddies. For the most part, it was college boy rawk without a lot of imagination. Maybe that's the demographic that cares -- and in that case, My Bloody Valentine and Bert Jansch aren't going to get screwed just yet. There's still time to negotiate. Destroying traditional access Somewhere along the way, record companies figured out that it's a lot more profitable to control the distribution system than it is to nurture artists. And since the companies didn't have any real competition, artists had no other place to go. Record companies controlled the promotion and marketing; only they had the ability to get lots of radio play, and get records into all the big chain store. That power put them above both the artists and the audience. They own the plantation. Being the gatekeeper was the most profitable place to be, but now we're in a world half without gates. The Internet allows artists to communicate directly with their audiences; we don't have to depend solely on an inefficient system where the record company promotes our records to radio, press or retail and then sits back and hopes fans find out about our music. Record companies don't understand the intimacy between artists and their fans. They put records on the radio and buy some advertising and hope for the best. Digital distribution gives everyone worldwide, instant access to music. And filters are replacing gatekeepers. In a world where we can get anything we want, whenever we want it, how does a company create value? By filtering. In a world without friction, the only friction people value is editing. A filter is valuable when it understands the needs of both artists and the public. New companies should be conduits between musicians and their fans. Right now the only way you can get music is by shelling out $17. In a world where music costs a nickel, an artist can "sell" 100 million copies instead of just a million. The present system keeps artists from finding an audience because it has too many artificial scarcities: limited radio promotion, limited bin space in stores and a limited number of spots on the record company roster. The digital world has no scarcities. There are countless ways to reach an audience. Radio is no longer the only place to hear a new song. And tiny mall record stores aren't the only place to buy a new CD. I'm leaving Now artists have options. We don't have to work with major labels anymore, because the digital economy is creating new ways to distribute and market music. And the free ones amongst us aren't going to. That means the slave class, which I represent, has to find ways to get out of our deals. This didn't really matter before, and that's why we all stayed. I want my seven-year contract law California labor code case to mean something to other artists. (Universal Records sues me because I leave because my employment is up, but they say a recording contract is not a personal contract; because the recording industry -- who, we have established, are excellent lobbyists, getting, as they did, a clerk to disallow Don Henley or Tom Petty the right to give their copyrights to their families -- in California, in 1987, lobbied to pass an amendment that nullified recording contracts as personal contracts, sort of. Maybe. Kind of. A little bit. And again, in the dead of night, succeeded.) That's why I'm willing to do it with a sword in my teeth. I expect I'll be ignored or ostracized following this lawsuit. I expect that the treatment you're seeing Lars Ulrich get now will quadruple for me. Cool. At least I'll serve a purpose. I'm an artist and a good artist, I think, but I'm not that artist that has to play all the time, and thus has to get fucked. Maybe my laziness and self-destructive streak will finally pay off and serve a community desperately in need of it. They can't torture me like they could Lucinda Williams. You funny dot-communists. Get your shit together, you annoying sucka VCs I want to work with people who believe in music and art and passion. And I'm just the tip of the iceberg. I'm leaving the major label system and there are hundreds of artists who are going to follow me. There's an unbelievable opportunity for new companies that dare to get it right. How can anyone defend the current system when it fails to deliver music to so many potential fans? That only expects of itself a "5 percent success rate" a year? The status quo gives us a boring culture. In a society of over 300 million people, only 30 new artists a year sell a million records. By any measure, that's a huge failure. Maybe each fan will spend less money, but maybe each artist will have a better chance of making a living. Maybe our culture will get more interesting than the one currently owned by Time Warner. I'm not crazy. Ask yourself, are any of you somehow connected to Time Warner media? I think there are a lot of yeses to that and I'd have to say that in that case president McKinley truly failed to bust any trusts. Maybe we can remedy that now. Artists will make that compromise if it means we can connect with hundreds of millions of fans instead of the hundreds of thousands that we have now. Especially if we lose all the crap that goes with success under the current system. I'm willing, right now, to leave half of these trappings -- fuck it, all these trappings -- at the door to have a pure artist experience. They cosset us with trappings to shut us up. That way when we say "sharecropper!" you can point to my free suit and say "Shut up pop star." Here, take my Prada pants. Fuck it. Let us do our real jobs. And those of us addicted to celebrity because we have nothing else to give will fade away. And those of us addicted to celebrity because it was there will find a better, purer way to live. Since I've basically been giving my music away for free under the old system, I'm not afraid of wireless, MP3 files or any of the other threats to my copyrights. Anything that makes my music more available to more people is great. MP3 files sound cruddy, but a well-made album sounds great. And I don't care what anyone says about digital recordings. At this point they are good for dance music, but try listening to a warm guitar tone on them. They suck for what I do. Record companies are terrified of anything that challenges their control of distribution. This is the business that insisted that CDs be sold in incredibly wasteful 6-by-12 inch long boxes just because no one thought you could change the bins in a record store. Let's not call the major labels "labels." Let's call them by their real names: They are the distributors. They're the only distributors and they exist because of scarcity. Artists pay 95 percent of whatever we make to gatekeepers because we used to need gatekeepers to get our music heard. Because they have a system, and when they decide to spend enough money -- all of it recoupable, all of it owed by me -- they can occasionally shove things through this system, depending on a lot of arbitrary factors. The corporate filtering system, which is the system that brought you (in my humble opinion) a piece of crap like "Mambo No. 5" and didn't let you hear the brilliant Cat Power record or the amazing new Sleater Kinney record, obviously doesn't have good taste anyway. But we've never paid major label/distributors for their good taste. They've never been like Yahoo and provided a filter service. There were a lot of factors that made a distributor decide to push a recording through the system: How powerful is management? Who owes whom a favor? What independent promoter's cousin is the drummer? What part of the fiscal year is the company putting out the record? Is the royalty rate for the artist so obscenely bad that it's almost 100 percent profit instead of just 95 percent so that if the record sells, it's literally a steal? How much bin space is left over this year? Was the record already a hit in Europe so that there's corporate pressure to make it work? Will the band screw up its live career to play free shows for radio stations? Does the artist's song sound enough like someone else that radio stations will play it because it fits the sound of the month? Did the artist get the song on a film soundtrack so that the movie studio will pay for the video? These factors affect the decisions that go into the system. Not public taste. All these things are becoming eradicated now. They are gone or on their way out. We don't need the gatekeepers any more. We just don't need them. And if they aren't going to do for me what I can do for myself with my 19-year-old Webmistress on my own Web site, then they need to get the hell out of my way. [I will] allow millions of people to get my music for nothing if they want and hopefully they'll be kind enough to leave a tip if they like it. I still need the old stuff. I still need a producer in the creation of a recording, I still need to get on the radio (which costs a lot of money), I still need bin space for hardware CDs, I still need to provide an opportunity for people without computers to buy the hardware that I make. I still need a lot of this stuff, but I can get these things from a joint venture with a company that serves as a conduit and knows its place. Serving the artist and serving the public: That's its place. Equity for artists A new company that gives artists true equity in their work can take over the world, kick ass and make a lot of money. We're inspired by how people get paid in the new economy. Many visual artists and software and hardware designers have real ownership of their work. I have a 14-year-old niece. She used to want to be a rock star. Before that she wanted to be an actress. As of six months ago, what do you think she wants to be when she grows up? What's the glamorous, emancipating career of choice? Of course, she wants to be a Web designer. It's such a glamorous business! When you people do business with artists, you have to take a different view of things. We want to be treated with the respect that now goes to Web designers. We're not Dockers-wearing Intel workers from Portland who know how to "manage our stress." We don't understand or want to understand corporate culture. I feel this obscene gold rush greedgreedgreed vibe that bothers me a lot when I talk to dot-com people about all this. You guys can't hustle artists that well. At least slick A&R guys know the buzzwords. Don't try to compete with them. I just laugh at you when you do! Maybe you could a year ago when anything dot-com sounded smarter than the rest of us, but the scam has been uncovered. The celebrity-for-sale business is about to crash, I hope, and the idea of a sucker VC gifting some company with four floors just because they can "do" "chats" with "Christina" once or twice is ridiculous. I did a chat today, twice. Big damn deal. 200 bucks for the software and some elbow grease and a good back-end coder. Wow. That's not worth 150 million bucks. ... I mean, yeah, sure it is if you'd like to give it to me. Tipping/music as service I know my place. I'm a waiter. I'm in the service industry. I live on tips. Occasionally, I'm going to get stiffed, but that's OK. If I work hard and I'm doing good work, I believe that the people who enjoy it are going to want to come directly to me and get my music because it sounds better, since it's mastered and packaged by me personally. I'm providing an honest, real experience. Period. When people buy the bootleg T-shirt in the concert parking lot and not the more expensive T-shirt inside the venue, it isn't to save money. The T-shirt in the parking lot is cheap and badly made, but it's easier to buy. The bootleggers have a better distribution system. There's no waiting in line and it only takes two minutes to buy one. I know that if I can provide my own T-shirt that I designed, that I made, and provide it as quickly or quicker than the bootleggers, people who've enjoyed the experience I've provided will be happy to shell out a little more money to cover my costs. Especially if they understand this context, and aren't being shoveled a load of shit about "uppity" artists. It's exactly the same with recorded music. The real thing to fear from Napster is its simple and excellent distribution system. No one really prefers a cruddy-sounding Napster MP3 file to the real thing. But it's really easy to get an MP3 file; and in the middle of Kansas you may never see my record because major distribution is really bad if your record's not in the charts this week, and even then it takes a couple of weeks to restock the one copy they usually keep on hand. I also know how many times I have heard a song on the radio that I loved only to buy the record and have the album be a piece of crap. If you're afraid of your own filler then I bet you're afraid of Napster. I'm afraid of Napster because I think the major label cartel will get to them before I do. I've made three records. I like them all. I haven't made filler and they're all committed pieces of work. I'm not scared of you previewing my record. If you like it enough to have it be a part of your life, I know you'll come to me to get it, as long as I show you how to get to me, and as long as you know that it's out. Most people don't go into restaurants and stiff waiters, but record labels represent the restaurant that forces the waiters to live on, and sometimes pool, their tips. And they even fight for a bit of their tips. Music is a service to its consumers, not a product. I live on tips. Giving music away for free is what artists have been doing naturally all their lives. New models Record companies stand between artists and their fans. We signed terrible deals with them because they controlled our access to the public. But in a world of total connectivity, record companies lose that control. With unlimited bin space and intelligent search engines, fans will have no trouble finding the music they know they want. They have to know they want it, and that needs to be a marketing business that takes a fee. If a record company has a reason to exist, it has to bring an artist's music to more fans and it has to deliver more and better music to the audience. You bring me a bigger audience or a better relationship with my audience or get the fuck out of my way. Next time I release a record, I'll be able to go directly to my fans and let them hear it before anyone else. We'll still have to use radio and traditional CD distribution. Record stores aren't going away any time soon and radio is still the most important part of record promotion. Major labels are freaking out because they have no control in this new world. Artists can sell CDs directly to fans. We can make direct deals with thousands of other Web sites and promote our music to millions of people that old record companies never touch. We're about to have lots of new ways to sell our music: downloads, hardware bundles, memory sticks, live Webcasts, and lots of other things that aren't even invented yet. Content providers But there's something you guys have to figure out. Here's my open letter to Steve Case: Avatars don't talk back!!! But what are you going to do with real live artists? Artists aren't like you. We go through a creative process that's demented and crazy. There's a lot of soul-searching and turning ourselves inside-out and all kinds of gross stuff that ends up on "Behind the Music." A lot of people who haven't been around artists very much get really weird when they sit down to lunch with us. So I want to give you some advice: Learn to speak our language. Talk about songs and melody and hooks and art and beauty and soul. Not sleazy record-guy crap, where you're in a cashmere sweater murmuring that the perfect deal really is perfect, Courtney. Yuck. Honestly hire honestly committed people. We're in a "new economy," right? You can afford to do that. But don't talk to me about "content." I get really freaked out when I meet someone and they start telling me that I should record 34 songs in the next six months so that we have enough content for my site. Defining artistic expression as content is anathema to me. What the hell is content? Nobody buys content. Real people pay money for music because it means something to them. A great song is not just something to take up space on a Web site next to stock market quotes and baseball scores. DEN tried to build a site with artist-free content and I'm not sorry to see it fail. The DEN shows look like art if you're not paying attention, but they forgot to hire anyone to be creative. So they ended up with a lot of content nobody wants to see because they thought they could avoid dealing with defiant and moody personalities. Because they were arrogant. And because they were conformists. Artists have to deal with business people and business people have to deal with artists. We hate each other. Let's create companies of mediators. Every single artist who makes records believes and hopes that they give you something that will transform your life. If you're really just interested in data mining or selling banner ads, stick with those "artists" willing to call themselves content providers. I don't know if an artist can last by meeting the current public taste, the taste from the last quarterly report. I don't think you can last by following demographics and carefully meeting expectations. I don't know many lasting works of art that are condescending or deliberately stupid or were created as content. Don't tell me I'm a brand. I'm famous and people recognize me, but I can't look in the mirror and see my brand identity. Keep talking about brands and you know what you'll get? Bad clothes. Bad hair. Bad books. Bad movies. And bad records. And bankrupt businesses. Rides that were fun for a year with no employee loyalty but everyone got rich fucking you. Who wants that? The answer is purity. We can afford it. Let's go find it again while we can. I also feel filthy trying to call my music a product. It's not a thing that I test market like toothpaste or a new car. Music is personal and mysterious. Being a "content provider" is prostitution work that devalues our art and doesn't satisfy our spirits. Artistic expression has to be provocative. The problem with artists and the Internet: Once their art is reduced to content, they may never have the opportunity to retrieve their souls. When you form your business for creative people, with creative people, come at us with some thought. Everybody's process is different. And remember that it's art. We're not craftspeople. Sponsorships I don't know what a good sponsorship would be for me or for other artists I respect. People bring up sponsorships a lot as a way for artists to get our music paid for upfront and for us to earn a fee. I've dealt with large corporations for long enough to know that any alliance where I'm an owned service is going to be doomed. When I agreed to allow a large cola company to promote a live show, I couldn't have been more miserable. They screwed up every single thing imaginable. The venue was empty but sold out. There were thousands of people outside who wanted to be there, trying to get tickets. And there were the empty seats the company had purchased for a lump sum and failed to market because they were clueless about music. It was really dumb. You had to buy the cola. You had to dial a number. You had to press a bunch of buttons. You had to do all this crap that nobody wanted to do. Why not just bring a can to the door? On top of all this, I felt embarrassed to be an advertising agent for a product that I'd never let my daughter use. Plus they were a condescending bunch of little guys. They treated me like I was an ungrateful little bitch who should be groveling for the experience to play for their damn soda. I ended up playing without my shirt on and ordering a six-pack of the rival cola onstage. Also lots of unwholesome cursing and nudity occurred. This way I knew that no matter how tempting the cash was, they'd never do business with me again. If you want some little obedient slave content provider, then fine. But I think most musicians don't want to be responsible for your clean-cut, wholesome, all-American, sugar corrosive cancer-causing, all white people, no women allowed sodapop images. Nor, on the converse, do we want to be responsible for your vice-inducing, liver-rotting, child-labor-law-violating, all white people, no-women-allowed booze images. So as a defiant moody artist worth my salt, I've got to think of something else. Tampax, maybe. Money As a user, I love Napster. It carries some risk. I hear idealistic business people talk about how people that are musicians would be musicians no matter what and that we're already doing it for free, so what about copyright? Please. It's incredibly easy not to be a musician. It's always a struggle and a dangerous career choice. We are motivated by passion and by money. That's not a dirty little secret. It's a fact. Take away the incentive for major or minor financial reward and you dilute the pool of musicians. I am not saying that only pure artists will survive. Like a few of the more utopian people who discuss this, I don't want just pure artists to survive. Where would we all be without the trash? We need the trash to cover up our national depression. The utopians also say that because in their minds "pure" artists are all Ani DiFranco and don't demand a lot of money. Why are the utopians all entertainment lawyers and major label workers anyway? I demand a lot of money if I do a big huge worthwhile job and millions of people like it, don't kid yourself. In economic terms, you've got an industry that's loathsome and outmoded, but when it works it creates some incentive and some efficiency even though absolutely no one gets paid. We suffer as a society and a culture when we don't pay the true value of goods and services delivered. We create a lack of production. Less good music is recorded if we remove the incentive to create it. Music is intellectual property with full cash and opportunity costs required to create, polish and record a finished product. If I invest money and time into my business, I should be reasonably protected from the theft of my goods and services. When the judgment came against MP3.com, the RIAA sought damages of $150,000 for each major-label-"owned" musical track in MP3's database. Multiply by 80,000 CDs, and MP3.com could owe the gatekeepers $120 billion. But what about the Plimsouls? Why can't MP3.com pay each artist a fixed amount based on the number of their downloads? Why on earth should MP3.com pay $120 billion to four distribution companies, who in most cases won't have to pay a nickel to the artists whose copyrights they've stolen through their system of organized theft? It's a ridiculous judgment. I believe if evidence had been entered that ultimately it's just shuffling big cash around two or three corporations, I can only pray that the judge in the MP3.com case would have seen the RIAA's case for the joke that it was. I'd rather work out a deal with MP3.com myself, and force them to be artist-friendly, instead of being laughed at and having my money hidden by a major label as they sell my records out the back door, behind everyone's back. How dare they behave in such a horrified manner in regards to copyright law when their entire industry is based on piracy? When Mister Label Head Guy, whom my lawyer yelled at me not to name, got caught last year selling millions of "cleans" out the back door. "Cleans" being the records that aren't for marketing but are to be sold. Who the fuck is this guy? He wants to save a little cash so he fucks the artist and goes home? Do they fire him? Does Chuck Phillips of the LA Times say anything? No way! This guy's a source! He throws awesome dinner parties! Why fuck with the status quo? Let's pick on Lars Ulrich instead because he brought up an interesting point! Conclusion I'm looking for people to help connect me to more fans, because I believe fans will leave a tip based on the enjoyment and service I provide. I'm not scared of them getting a preview. It really is going to be a global village where a billion people have access to one artist and a billion people can leave a tip if they want to. It's a radical democratization. Every artist has access to every fan and every fan has access to every artist, and the people who direct fans to those artists. People that give advice and technical value are the people we need. People crowding the distribution pipe and trying to ignore fans and artists have no value. This is a perfect system. If you're going to start a company that deals with musicians, please do it because you like music. Offer some control and equity to the artists and try to give us some creative guidance. If music and art and passion are important to you, there are hundreds of artists who are ready to rewrite the rules. In the last few years, business pulled our culture away from the idea that music is important and emotional and sacred. But new technology has brought a real opportunity for change; we can break down the old system and give musicians real freedom and choice. A great writer named Neal Stephenson said that America does four things better than any other country in the world: rock music, movies, software and high-speed pizza delivery. All of these are sacred American art forms. Let's return to our purity and our idealism while we have this shot. Warren Beatty once said: "The greatest gift God gives us is to enjoy the sound of our own voice. And the second greatest gift is to get somebody to listen to it." And for that, I humbly thank you. "The first time I saw the cover of Dirty Mind in the early 80s I thought, 'Is this some drag queen ripping on Freddie Prinze?'" - Some guy on The Gear Page | |
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Dance said: I think it's a mistake to assume/claim that there are all these people that have little respect for the arts.
It's the industry, NOT the public, that has come to treat it as a prop to sell everything but music and that has flooded mainstream with this trash in order to do so. It's the people that so many say don't care, who created the technology to break out of this and are constantly improving and protecting it. The people don't want this crap. The companies that release this material are the ones supporting it as a part of their hustle. The company buys records,spins, and tickets. ITunes is a blip. Most people aren't coming out of their pocket for this garbage. It's bigger than music, but that's a different discussion. [Edited 5/24/08 19:34pm] Everything you say is just extraordinary stupid, misleading and wrong... The public is responsible for all the garbage... Not the industry... The public loves crap, garbage stuff... They buy Madonna over real talented artists... It has always been proved that the public always dictate what sells... They dictated what the indusry sells... No the other way around... The argument that companies are respsonsible is irrelevant since the public now have access to endless music thanks to the internet... And music is not better... The matter of fact, if it wasn't for the industry, music would be even worse... The public always decides what they want to buy... Not the industry... If you notice, we are living in the digital age, which means that the public can choose whatever they want to listen to... The matter of fact, digital music is only showing how bad tastes the public has... |
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carlcranshaw said: An old Shania Twain interview which underscores the threads point.
http://www.rollingstone.c...atrix/page Carlshaw, you can't be serious...
Your article of Courtney is dated from year 2000, back when artists thought internet would be a way to make music and control directly their sales... Back when nobody knew the impact of digital terchnology on record sales in a long term... Back when record sales were not suffering yet... Back when the Ipod didn't exist... It was a long time ago but things have changed dramatically... I don't think Courtney would praise digital technology the same way these days... |
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krayzie said: Dance said: I think it's a mistake to assume/claim that there are all these people that have little respect for the arts.
It's the industry, NOT the public, that has come to treat it as a prop to sell everything but music and that has flooded mainstream with this trash in order to do so. It's the people that so many say don't care, who created the technology to break out of this and are constantly improving and protecting it. The people don't want this crap. The companies that release this material are the ones supporting it as a part of their hustle. The company buys records,spins, and tickets. ITunes is a blip. Most people aren't coming out of their pocket for this garbage. It's bigger than music, but that's a different discussion. [Edited 5/24/08 19:34pm] Everything you say is just extraordinary stupid, misleading and wrong... The public is responsible for all the garbage... Not the industry... The public loves crap, garbage stuff... They buy Madonna over real talented artists... It has always been proved that the public always dictate what sells... They dictated what the indusry sells... No the other way around... The argument that companies are respsonsible is irrelevant since the public now have access to endless music thanks to the internet... And music is not better... The matter of fact, if it wasn't for the industry, music would be even worse... The public always decides what they want to buy... Not the industry... If you notice, we are living in the digital age, which means that the public can choose whatever they want to listen to... The matter of fact, digital music is only showing how bad tastes the public has... To put it into a quote from Bill Maher, this generation has all this INFO at its hands, the internet where you can get to hear things you wont hear on major channels and yet the people are dumber than ever. The technology is there but the people here are dumber than ever, so in a Political/culture we as people coming up are suffering from lack of education. I mean we would rather read about Lindsay Lohan kissing a girl than the fact that 8 marines died yesterday. So thats why we are where we are in all forums, whehter it be the talent or the media or anything. As someone said a few months back on this forum, Celebs and singers etc..are who they are, but the fact that we the people EMPLOY shitheads like TMZ and Perez Hilton and rely on them for NEWS as if they were experts, thats why we get what we get. Thats why our days are spent thinking about a crackhead like Amy Whinehouse or watching Britney crash a car, all of that shit is meaningless and shouldnt even be in print anywhere. There needs to be a filter at the source, but there NEVER will be again, mainly because everything was hijacked in the 90's and now its lost, whether its soundscan being owned or Steve fucking jobs being a criminal and in bed with labels faking download numbers for chart positions, its a done deal. So a word to anyone creative or artistic, DONT get into music or the arts if you wanna make money, because you arent going to. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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krayzie said: Dance said: I think it's a mistake to assume/claim that there are all these people that have little respect for the arts.
It's the industry, NOT the public, that has come to treat it as a prop to sell everything but music and that has flooded mainstream with this trash in order to do so. It's the people that so many say don't care, who created the technology to break out of this and are constantly improving and protecting it. The people don't want this crap. The companies that release this material are the ones supporting it as a part of their hustle. The company buys records,spins, and tickets. ITunes is a blip. Most people aren't coming out of their pocket for this garbage. It's bigger than music, but that's a different discussion. [Edited 5/24/08 19:34pm] Everything you say is just extraordinary stupid, misleading and wrong... The public is responsible for all the garbage... Not the industry... The public loves crap, garbage stuff... They buy Madonna over real talented artists... It has always been proved that the public always dictate what sells... They dictated what the indusry sells... No the other way around... The argument that companies are respsonsible is irrelevant since the public now have access to endless music thanks to the internet... And music is not better... The matter of fact, if it wasn't for the industry, music would be even worse... The public always decides what they want to buy... Not the industry... If you notice, we are living in the digital age, which means that the public can choose whatever they want to listen to... The matter of fact, digital music is only showing how bad tastes the public has... Really troll? | |
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krayzie said: carlcranshaw said: An old Shania Twain interview which underscores the threads point.
http://www.rollingstone.c...atrix/page Carlshaw, you can't be serious...
Your article of Courtney is dated from year 2000, back when artists thought internet would be a way to make music and control directly their sales... Back when nobody knew the impact of digital terchnology on record sales in a long term... Back when record sales were not suffering yet... Back when the Ipod didn't exist... It was a long time ago but things have changed dramatically... I don't think Courtney would praise digital technology the same way these days... Well Ziekray, the idea was to compare these older articles to today as a barometer to see if things got better or worse. I would say they got much worse. Courtney would probably get up in front of a panel today wearing a Rosanne Rosannadanna wig and hold her late husbands CD up and say "Nevermind". Back then there was a big thing in Nashville with Shania and Mutt Lange with the sterile hybrid of Def Leppard production and a singing Rachel Welch. Now Country Music in Nashville is all Pro Tool-ed within an inch of it's life. With newer and hotter musical "products". "The first time I saw the cover of Dirty Mind in the early 80s I thought, 'Is this some drag queen ripping on Freddie Prinze?'" - Some guy on The Gear Page | |
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lastdecember said: To put it into a quote from Bill Maher, this generation has all this INFO at its hands, the internet where you can get to hear things you wont hear on major channels and yet the people are dumber than ever. The technology is there but the people here are dumber than ever, so in a Political/culture we as people coming up are suffering from lack of education. I mean we would rather read about Lindsay Lohan kissing a girl than the fact that 8 marines died yesterday. So thats why we are where we are in all forums, whehter it be the talent or the media or anything. As someone said a few months back on this forum, Celebs and singers etc..are who they are, but the fact that we the people EMPLOY shitheads like TMZ and Perez Hilton and rely on them for NEWS as if they were experts, thats why we get what we get. Thats why our days are spent thinking about a crackhead like Amy Whinehouse or watching Britney crash a car, all of that shit is meaningless and shouldnt even be in print anywhere.
The only thing Bill Maher is good for is advice on where to get gutterbutt whores. He's certainly not someone ANYONE should quote. Anyway, the reason there are 579387598734895798358973875983859 blogs detailing what these talentless coke whores are doing every second of the day is half are being PAID by the pr and marketing people OF THOSE WHORES and the rest are owned by the industry and work in the same way any other media does right now. The people don't fucking care what Beyonce's doing, but a bunch of tools in a room know that there's a pretty big segment of the population that can be convinced of damn near anything(like that these shitheads matter)if they shove it in their face enough. They also know that they can then take these celebrities that they've created and flooded everywhere with, and use them to sell random trash to these same people. These people don't represent the majority. The popularity of the internet, the changing of media to where people are controlling content,getting it cheaper, and getting access to more diverse material...these are things done by the public to escape the wave of trash The public is not asking for this. If this is what the public wanted, the industry wouldn't have to create these ghost careers. The industry is just one very small part of corporate disease. As you sit there typing about the interest of most people(  ) in what Paris is sucking on, you've probably got an SUV parked outside or maybe a mile high pile of old cell phones or maybe you're using one of the dozens of lappies you've bought over the last few years. If that's true, then you're no different than anyone who gives a fuck about Paris. You're also being dragged into this mess and convinced of the popularity of/need for/significance of certain things when that just isn't true. The problem is much bigger than art and more people are aware of all this than some would like to believe. | |
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Dance said: lastdecember said: To put it into a quote from Bill Maher, this generation has all this INFO at its hands, the internet where you can get to hear things you wont hear on major channels and yet the people are dumber than ever. The technology is there but the people here are dumber than ever, so in a Political/culture we as people coming up are suffering from lack of education. I mean we would rather read about Lindsay Lohan kissing a girl than the fact that 8 marines died yesterday. So thats why we are where we are in all forums, whehter it be the talent or the media or anything. As someone said a few months back on this forum, Celebs and singers etc..are who they are, but the fact that we the people EMPLOY shitheads like TMZ and Perez Hilton and rely on them for NEWS as if they were experts, thats why we get what we get. Thats why our days are spent thinking about a crackhead like Amy Whinehouse or watching Britney crash a car, all of that shit is meaningless and shouldnt even be in print anywhere.
The only thing Bill Maher is good for is advice on where to get gutterbutt whores. He's certainly not someone ANYONE should quote. Anyway, the reason there are 579387598734895798358973875983859 blogs detailing what these talentless coke whores are doing every second of the day is half are being PAID by the pr and marketing people OF THOSE WHORES and the rest are owned by the industry and work in the same way any other media does right now. The people don't fucking care what Beyonce's doing, but a bunch of tools in a room know that there's a pretty big segment of the population that can be convinced of damn near anything(like that these shitheads matter)if they shove it in their face enough. They also know that they can then take these celebrities that they've created and flooded everywhere with, and use them to sell random trash to these same people. These people don't represent the majority. The popularity of the internet, the changing of media to where people are controlling content,getting it cheaper, and getting access to more diverse material...these are things done by the public to escape the wave of trash The public is not asking for this. If this is what the public wanted, the industry wouldn't have to create these ghost careers. The industry is just one very small part of corporate disease. As you sit there typing about the interest of most people( ) in what Paris is sucking on, you've probably got an SUV parked outside or maybe a mile high pile of old cell phones or maybe you're using one of the dozens of lappies you've bought over the last few years. If that's true, then you're no different than anyone who gives a fuck about Paris. You're also being dragged into this mess and convinced of the popularity of/need for/significance of certain things when that just isn't true. The problem is much bigger than art and more people are aware of all this than some would like to believe.Actually i would quote Bill Maher long before many others especially the SHIT running for office who are lieing day in day out, sorry that goes for the clinton and obama NUTS also, not just that old dude on the other side. As for your last quote, i dont own an SUV, or any of these little gadgets that come out every other week, like the iPhone or whatever it is. I think this whole crap about people being outraged that gas is 4+ dollars, cracks me up because they pay 4+ dollars for shitty coffee as they walk past a homeless person in the gutter. As for the Public they do want this, Google shit stories and see what gets the most hits, and then realize that is all $$$ going into a google account which is all these off-shore companies that are the reason this country is in the shit hole. Its all connected, but dont let people off the hook that easy, because there is enough a %% that is buying into it, whether its reality DUMB ASS tv or anything else, someone is buying it. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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Red said: This rant might be getting old. I believe it has never been easier to find good music and good art of all kinds. OMG, there is sooooo much out there - just click. It’s pretty dayum easy to be target specific with your searches, so it shouldn’t take long to find what you’re looking for.
Yes, the music business has been laid to rest, at least as we knew it and that’s a gtreat thing. The days of labels ripping off artist are gone, so are overpriced CD's. No longer are visual artists forced to pay galleries 50%+ to sell their work. If you’re talking about what you hear on your local radio station - why listen unless you’re looking for local news, weather and traffic. Internet radio is wild, enabling one to dial up any genre, song, artists desired...and it couldn't be better for independents/emerging artists. Music is going to have to be packaged differently to attract consumers enough to want to buy/have whatever it is they are offering. Artists with flash drives, subscriptions, goodies and exposure will do just fine. Managers, lawyers and accountants will start working in favor of the Artist. Conventional radio, as well as it does with advertisers who still haven’t quite figured out internet advertising will eventuallky abandon local radio. Radio knows this. It can’t compete. Anyone remember the Transistor radio? It’s back!! Itg’s called Daisy, with a rechargeable battery for 20 hours of wifi, supports all internet formats and can access over 6,000 stations around the globe. And that's just the beginning. The fair trade/cost of music will eventually sort itself and labels are starting to offer P2P downloads of their catelogues. I would say - move on and enjoy the arts. As for the Star system - it will NEVER be the way it was - and that’s a good thing. It was and still is way over the top. It urks me to see these below average so called 'stars' flaunting their wealth. Every part of the entertainment business, film included is going to get knocked down a peg... and who's in the drifver's seat. WE are and that's the beauty of it, YOU can simply ignore or support what you want to - and the industry will cater to you. S’all good. Click away. It really is a Brave New World. I agree with most of what you say, its never been easier for a music lover to find an obscure jazz track, a long forgot gem that just a few years ago would have been near impossible to find even if there were dozens records stores near where you live. But I also agree with the likes of Prince and Metallica, just in the sense that its putting the brakes on things a bit until it all gets sorted out so that’s its really fair for the artists, and everyone is on the same page. I haven’t heard a really clear blueprint of how it’s all going to work, just vague ideas of the ideal way it should be in the perfect world. | |
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lastdecember said: Actually i would quote Bill Maher long before many others especially the SHIT running for office who are lieing day in day out, sorry that goes for the clinton and obama NUTS also, not just that old dude on the other side.
As for your last quote, i dont own an SUV, or any of these little gadgets that come out every other week, like the iPhone or whatever it is. I think this whole crap about people being outraged that gas is 4+ dollars, cracks me up because they pay 4+ dollars for shitty coffee as they walk past a homeless person in the gutter. As for the Public they do want this, Google shit stories and see what gets the most hits, and then realize that is all $$$ going into a google account which is all these off-shore companies that are the reason this country is in the shit hole. Its all connected, but dont let people off the hook that easy, because there is enough a %% that is buying into it, whether its reality DUMB ASS tv or anything else, someone is buying it. Bill Maher is a joke and so are Obama and Clinton. The whole Obama Clinton thing is more owned and manufactured than any pop act out right now, but Bill Maher...well we need another thread to tear that douche up
The fact that you turn on the tv and see a bunch of trash shows or the radio and hear nonmusic doesn't mean people are breaking their neck to have this stuff on there anymore than the fact that you go online and find a bunch of bullshit means that people want it. Hell, right here on this forum you see the industry game happen as it does with other web spaces. | |
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Dance said: lastdecember said: Actually i would quote Bill Maher long before many others especially the SHIT running for office who are lieing day in day out, sorry that goes for the clinton and obama NUTS also, not just that old dude on the other side.
As for your last quote, i dont own an SUV, or any of these little gadgets that come out every other week, like the iPhone or whatever it is. I think this whole crap about people being outraged that gas is 4+ dollars, cracks me up because they pay 4+ dollars for shitty coffee as they walk past a homeless person in the gutter. As for the Public they do want this, Google shit stories and see what gets the most hits, and then realize that is all $$$ going into a google account which is all these off-shore companies that are the reason this country is in the shit hole. Its all connected, but dont let people off the hook that easy, because there is enough a %% that is buying into it, whether its reality DUMB ASS tv or anything else, someone is buying it. Bill Maher is a joke and so are Obama and Clinton. The whole Obama Clinton thing is more owned and manufactured than any pop act out right now, but Bill Maher...well we need another thread to tear that douche up
The fact that you turn on the tv and see a bunch of trash shows or the radio and hear nonmusic doesn't mean people are breaking their neck to have this stuff on there anymore than the fact that you go online and find a bunch of bullshit means that people want it. Hell, right here on this forum you see the industry game happen as it does with other web spaces. I love Bill! I'll leave it alone babe...just be me | |
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Bill's cool. | |
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Dance said: krayzie said: Everything you say is just extraordinary stupid, misleading and wrong... The public is responsible for all the garbage... Not the industry... The public loves crap, garbage stuff... They buy Madonna over real talented artists... It has always been proved that the public always dictate what sells... They dictated what the indusry sells... No the other way around... The argument that companies are respsonsible is irrelevant since the public now have access to endless music thanks to the internet... And music is not better... The matter of fact, if it wasn't for the industry, music would be even worse... The public always decides what they want to buy... Not the industry... If you notice, we are living in the digital age, which means that the public can choose whatever they want to listen to... The matter of fact, digital music is only showing how bad tastes the public has... Really troll? Troll?
You know there will be a day when people will remember the good old days before internet era, when people used to buy records, when artists made millions of dollars selling records with no promotion The irony of the digital age is it has given exactly what artists have always wanted ("freedom") but in expense of revenues... Because companies are losing more and more money with the illegal downloading, it forces companies to take very little risk... That's why they have to find other ways to make money with these ringtones and pro-tool stuff...
That's funny because 10 years ago, a lot of people thought that it would be the opposite... People forget that launching a new artist takes a lot of time and MONEY, but if companies don't make money anymore, how can you expect these companies to sign talented artist who don't necessarly fit the mainstream standard... Now they do the safe thing... Better signing an MJ impersonator that will guarantee revenues over a real artist that won't sell much... Back then Warner had no problem to support Prince, because on the same label there were other artists selling millions of records... So it wasn't problematic back then to take risk, and sign artists like Prince ... But now ? |
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