i know some of you will hate me for this, but i think it makes for an interesting debate...


i was thinkin this the other day...


with all the trouble and drug use surrounding her...even tho amy winehouse is only two albums in...if she were to die before her third relaese (either at the age of 24 or 25)...she would probably be imediately thrust into the greatness of deceased rock stars of the 60's, would she not?....

we would lament a talent that shone briefly...and make claims as to how great she would've been had things been different...

to paraphrase doug stanhope...who know's what jimi would be doing if he was still alive?

i debate with my friends all the time whether biggie or pac would've fallen off...and jim morrison could've ended up singing jazz standards remixed by will i am for a CD exclusively purchased at Target...

who's to say...

my point is...artist cut in their prime leave the public to daydream about a neverending greatness that may have never actually happened, had said artist lived on...


i mean, what would we be saying about santana had he died after abraxus? ....depending on who you talk to the santana we revere was no more by the time he teamed up with rob thomas...


anyway...what do you think?

what kurt cobain just left the biz and and became a painter? would his posters still sell as much...or would he be "that 90's guy who paints now"?

I think in time people probably would revere Amy Winehouse the way they do the others you mentioned. People have this weird thing about romanticizing death and artists who die. I don't remember hearing a whole lot about Heath Ledger while he was alive, but once he died, everyone came out of the woodwork about how he was such a great actor and such.

But the thing about dying young is, you get to skip all those embarrassing things that a lot of artists end up having to do once their heyday is over. You're probably right that Jim MOrrison WOULD have done some really lame shit had he lived. Who knows with Hendrix. I'd like to think he wouldn't, but you never know.

guitarslinger44 said:

i know what you mean...i knew who heath ledger was...but i was suprised to hear him praised the was he was once news of his death came out

SirPsycho said:

the ledger aftermath was odd...especially on this website. right up there with the aliyah and left-eye aftermaths.

No way in hell. I mean shes got talent, but lets be real, a legend? Even if she died or something tragic like that she didnt really cause of wave of change in her field of music. though im not big on kurt cobain either and feel he too is well overrated for his talent (especially on guitar, top ten of all time WTF?) but kurt along with Nirvana and Pearl Jam did start quite a wave in those early 90's whether you dug it or not. As for Whinehouse, im not seeing it or hearing it, ok 2 good albums, but there isnt really anything else to base "legend" on.

lastdecember said:

i dont know how you feel about rap (since most orger dont seem to appreciate it) but biggie died after two albums as well

sosgemini said:

What happened on the org, if you don't mind me asking?

She'd become something of a legend, but since she is fairly retro (not exactly doing anything new with music) I don't see her as being held up with Jimi & Kurt & Pac. At least not for long.

lastdecember said:

She probably wouldn't be remembered in the United States, but she'd probably be revered by her compatrots in her homeland. You have to understand that she was a pretty soldid talent who was respected and well-loved on her own stomping grounds, pre-international fame and pre- heroin spiral...and the kudos weren't just coming from civilians...hardcore musicians loved that little elf of a kid (although from what I'm witnessing in the EU music community no one cares too much about her now because she's not focused on honing her craft). If you're speaking about whether she could be held up as a music legend in America is one thing (particularly since she has a limited audience there that's only been familiar with her for 1 1/2 (?) years and 2-3 songs)...but it would be an error in judgement to speak for whether Britain and the European Union would feel the same.

2Pac and Biggie don't belong in the same category as Hendrix !
[Edited 5/8/08 17:13pm]

wildgoldenhoney said:

oh...just numerous threads with folks being emotional as if it was Aunt Bertha who passed...and then the annual anniversary of the death and birthday threads with more mourning for poor ole Aunt Bertha...

it's an interesting phenom.

Dewrede said:

maybe so, but they all belong on a list of artists who died in their 20's and have been celebrated posthumously...hence their place in this thread

SirPsycho said:

yes, I don't believe Janis is in the same category as Hendrix either, but talent that dies young becomes iconic.

sosgemini said:

I see, I guess it was shock because of the suddenness of their deaths, (I was in shock).
Seemed like the Heath Ledger death was sort of contained to a couple of threads though,
or maybe I just didn't notice because I didn't visit GD and Non-Prince as much during that time,
but I do remember vaguely that there was a couple of stickys on him/Grammys or Oscars with tons of replies.

What the fuck are people talking about with Heath Ledger?

The man was praised AD NAUSEUM for Brokeback Mountain - did we all conveniently forget that tiny little BEST ACTOR OSCAR NOMINATION?

Not to mention the hype surrounding his role as The Joker even before his death.

God, the selective memory some orgers have in order to prove their "CELEBZ SUX LOL!" points bugs the crap outta me!

And why is SOS always so bitter about celebrity memorial threads?

Especially for celebs that DESERVE it like Heath, Aaliyah and Left Eye.

Those three all ended up contributing something GREAT to the entertainment industry...oh but they're celebrities so why mourn them because hey! they're millionaires and we hate them for that.

All three died in TRAGIC, PREVENTABLE ways and in Heath's case he leaves a TWO YEAR OLD DAUGHTER behind.

I think we all have a right to be upset about that and fuck you if you have a problem with it.

purplesweat said:

your overreacting to other people's opinions just about as bad as folks overreacting to the deaths.

BlaqueKnight said:

the same would go for John Lennon, people somehow think his greatness came after death. Well he wasnt writing and marching in peace rallies when he was dead, he wasnt fighting the system when he was dead, all of the things he is remembered for came while he was alive.

lastdecember said:

I think the point of the thread is that early or tragic death can make legends out of non-legends, and it makes legends even more legendary.

And if Amy Winehouse died today, I am sure she'd be a part of the "stupid club" as Kurt Cobain's mom called it.

But death doesn't guarantee the status of a Jim Morrison or Jimi Hendrix. I don't see Layne Staley or Jim Croce being quite as celebrated as some of the others.

BlaqueKnight said:

Exactly. While a decent-to-ok retro pop singer, Winehouse a legend? God no. Dead or alive imo no. Some seem to compare her to the likes of Billie Holliday, who has the image of 'tragic, flawed jazz singer', when really Billie was a hard-as-nails survivor whose body finally wore out in her early '40s. While no great Holiday authority, I do know Billie managed to actually do a lot of WORK while at times being something of a mess. Unlike Winehouse, who it's reported, on a recent pub crawl in London, screamed 'I'm a legend!' at onlookers while kicking over tables. Do you really feel the need to tell us, dear? I hope she gets sorted out so she can make some more things and grow as a person and as an artist, but so far she's nothing special imo.

While the late Jim Morrison and the Doors were cool, only Hendrix and Charlie Parker immediately spring to mind as great artists dying young, having changed music around them with both probably having much left to give.

NDRU said:

thank you...i would've mentioned jim as well, but he only seems to be known by a select few

sosgemini said:

Why do you consider my opinion an overreaction? Because it doesn't agree with yours?

purplesweat said:

not at all...but anytime someone says, "fuck you"...well, they are too invested in their own thoughts.

sosgemini said:

What is it with adults that can't deal with cussing on here?

And so if I swear once, my entire opinion goes out the window?

Time to come back to planet earth, sweetie.

Even if Amy Winehouse lives, I will do everything I can to forget her.

purplesweat said:

did i say you can't have your opinion? once again...overreacting...here, take two:






and in not you sweetie.

so the long and short of it is, she's gonna *unexpectedly* kick the bucket at age 27, and become a musical martyr?

BlaqueKnight said:

Fat Joe? You mean Big Pun, right?

sosgemini said:

All you spoke about was the fact that I swore. Did you even read the rest of my post?