I like many of Miles albums but I really love "Jack Johnson" and "Agharta". Cuts like "Right Off" & "Yesternow" off of "Jack Johnson" and the entire album of "Agharta" is brilliant. This to me, "Agharta", is by far the greatest musical tribute to Hendrix ever. No album greater exemplified the love and admiration from one musician to another. Hendrix's influence is all over "Agharta" and some of "Jack Johnson". Hendrix and Miles of course were to get together and record some things. Both cats dug and respected each other. But Jimi passed before it could go down. So I think this is what Miles had envisioned Jimi and his collaboration would have sounded like. On "Agharta" it took two different guitarists to capture what Hendrix did alone. Guitarists Reggie Lucus and Pete Cosey evoked Hendrix on that album while John McLaughlin echoed Hendrix on "Jack Johnson". Miles even ran his trumpet through a Wah Wah to further seal the Hendrix influence. Who else digs these two albums?

Also I don't want to leave out guitarist Sonny Sharrock and his Hendrix inspired work on "Jack Johnson".

What's up B?..Classic stuff. Miles definetly had Jimi on his mind when he recorded these jems. I could truly envision Jimi and Miles jamming together had he lived. I know Betty Davis turned Miles on to Jimi but Miles also adapted Jimi's look, clothes, hair, and like you said the wah pedal.

And Sonny cut it up on "Jack". Definetly an underrated fave of mine. Both of these LP's are HEAVY.

SPYZFAN1 said:

What it is Spyz? Yep and yep.

Ndeed!

I actually clicked with Jack Johnson and Agartha before I could really get a grip on Bitches Brew.... but digesting those made it easier for me to slide back into Brew...It is kinda sad, Jimi should have been on Jack Johnson(and Agartha, for that matter)-- but Cosey and Lucas (along with Sharrock, and John McLaughlin) definitely let it rip!!!
Actually, according to some musicians, Jimi was checkin Sharrock out in the late 60's--- Sonny was skronkin' along his merry way about the same time, independent of Hendrix...Man now they should've jammed together!!!!






...
[Edited 4/14/08 16:32pm]

You can add Agharta's (the afternoon performance) twin...



...Pangaea (the evening performance)


Another live performance with almost the same band...



...Dark Magus was recorded the previous year.

Maybe the scariest music he's recorded.
Dark Magus featured a guitar trio with the inclusion of guitarist Dominique Gaumont.
Azar Lawrence (someone who i've been checking out around town recently) is on sax.


This trilogy of albums are probably Miles at his most raw.
It's unfortunate that management & money got in the way of a true Jimi/Miles colab.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431
[Edited 4/14/08 16:38pm]

I really dig 'Jack Johnson' and always wanted to get 'Agharta' but hesitated because it wasn't properly re-mastered. Could not get the Japanese version, too expensive. But thanks for the reminder, will definitely have to look out for it again.

And thanks tA for mentioning 'Pangea', from what I know about it, both are absolutely essential!



...You know, sometimes you really need a reminder how much ground Miles covered in his life. Just look at the worlds between 'Kind of Blue' and 'On the Corner'. Amazing.

paligap said:

blackguitaristz said:[quote]paligap said:[quote] Ndeed!

I actually clicked with Jack Johnson and Agartha before I could really get a grip on Bitches Brew.... but digesting those made it easier for me to slide back into Brew...It is kinda sad, Jimi should have been on Jack Johnson(and Agartha, for that matter)-- but Cosey and Lucas (along with Sharrock, and John McLaughlin) definitely let it rip!!!
Actually, according to some musicians, Jimi was checkin Sharrock out in the late 60's--- Sonny was skronkin' along his merry way about the same time, independent of Hendrix...Man now they should've jammed together!!!!
(quote)

Bitches Brew was the first album I got by Miles. I had that when I was 13.

Check out the 'Jack Johnson' box set. It's FULL of extended jams and outtakes. Truly inspired. And ALL OF YOU should own 'On the Corner' by Miles...it's the birth of break beats.

I LOVE me some Jack Johnson. I've been meaning to pick up the other three but I'm usually running low on cash when I DO find them. Good record stores are hard to find these days.

BTW, I didn't know Sonny was on Jack Johnson. I thought McLaughlin did all the guitar on that one. Guess I need to read the credits closer.
[Edited 4/14/08 18:21pm]

Solid....I've really been dig'n on Jack Johnson lately.

StarMon said:

Yep, very cool album.

theAudience said:

Some of my favourate Miles albums right there - imo the period 1972-75 is the most interesting and exciting period of Miles' music. They say he was hittin' the drugs pretty hard by '75 (partly due to hip problems, but I digress), but his ears were wide open on a lot of this stuff.

The Miles band that plays on these records is amazing, and, if anything imo were under-recorded, at least in good sound - 'Dark Magus' sounds like it was recorded in a cathedral IIRC - a true 'dub chamber' sound emanates there-in . Pete Cosey, the sitting Buddha of skronk guitar in full effect on 'Agharta/Pangaea', Sonny Fortune is the focussed, elegant voice of old 'jazz', while Miles bubbles most of the time playing his wah wah trumpet like Hendrix on rhythm guitar.

A truly 'listening' band and as with the best jazz and blues bands, the structure is so loose in these jams, they had to watch Miles like hawks to see what sign he gave next. Things don't always work, and they do occasionally trip over, but that makes it all the more fascinating to listen to and exciting when the group improvisation really gels.

'Bitches Brew' ain't my favourate Miles record. It's certainly interesting (sounds like the aggressive, enigmatic sister of 'In a Silent Way'to me), but to my ears, it sounds like the unfocused beginning of what culminated in 'Agharta/Pangaea', where it all seems to come together. 'Jack Johnson' needs to be Disc 3 of 'Brew' for it to make sense to me .

I suppose with 'Brew', Miles was drawing on many things, including Ornette Coleman's 'Free Jazz' album and related stuff, with both Ornette and 'Brew' era Miles consciously or unconsciously drawing on the collective improvisation with no real solos/ soloists that seems to have existed in jazz before the early recordings of Louis Armstrong and his mentor King Oliver made it more into a soloist's music.

As to the Miles/ Hendrix collab that never was, it could have been interesting, tho the fact it never happened leads into exaggerated expectations, I suspect. I imagine a joint dynamic similar to what Miles had with John Coltrane, in that 'Trane was the 'fire', playing a million notes a second most of the time, while Miles would be the 'ice', weaving spare, elegant notes and passages in his inimitable style. Substitute Jimi for 'Trane and you know where I'm coming from. They were gonna have Tony Williams on drums at one time, but Tony wanted too much money, so it goes. So Miles upped his fee and time ran out.

Gil Evans, who knew both Jimi and Miles in particular, was probably the only figure who could have brought these two mega-egos together in a creative success story. I can almost hear Jimi exploding over Gil's Duke Ellington style orchestrations and horn sonorities, while Miles 'leans back' in his traditional position, hitting a few probing, exploratory stabs of trumpet into Hendrix's occasional silences. I'd have had two drummers; Tony Williams and Buddy Miles . I'm sure that Miles, like Jimi, could get down with Buddy's funky'fatback', while Tony could been slicin' up bits of time in his usual intricate fashion over Buddy's groove.

I've said enough, and shall end on that great Miles/'Trane anecdote, where 'Trane, after a gig, says to Miles, 'I can't seem to stop playing all these long choruses no matter how I try', (or words to that effect), to which the classic Miles reply was 'Try taking the MF'ing horn out of your mouth!' .

Some of my favourate Miles albums right there - imo the period 1972-75 is the most interesting and exciting period of Miles' music. They say he was hittin' the drugs pretty hard by '75 (partly due to hip problems, but I digress), but his ears were wide open on a lot of this stuff.

The Miles band that plays on these records is amazing, and, if anything imo were under-recorded, at least in good sound - 'Dark Magus' sounds like it was recorded in a cathedral IIRC - a true 'dub chamber' sound emanates there-in . Pete Cosey, the sitting Buddha of skronk guitar in full effect on 'Agharta/Pangaea', Sonny Fortune is the focussed, elegant voice of old 'jazz', while Miles bubbles most of the time playing his wah wah trumpet like Hendrix on rhythm guitar.

A truly 'listening' band and as with the best jazz and blues bands, the structure is so loose in these jams, they had to watch Miles like hawks to see what sign he gave next. Things don't always work, and they do occasionally trip over, but that makes it all the more fascinating to listen to and exciting when the group improvisation really gels.

'Bitches Brew' ain't my favourate Miles record. It's certainly interesting (sounds like the aggressive, enigmatic sister of 'In a Silent Way'to me), but to my ears, it sounds like the unfocused beginning of what culminated in 'Agharta/Pangaea', where it all seems to come together. 'Jack Johnson' needs to be Disc 3 of 'Brew' for it to make sense to me .

I suppose with 'Brew', Miles was drawing on many things, including Ornette Coleman's 'Free Jazz' album and related stuff, with both Ornette and 'Brew' era Miles consciously or unconsciously drawing on the collective improvisation with no real solos/ soloists that seems to have existed in jazz before the early recordings of Louis Armstrong and his mentor King Oliver made it more into a soloist's music.

As to the Miles/ Hendrix collab that never was, it could have been interesting, tho the fact it never happened leads into exaggerated expectations, I suspect. I imagine a joint dynamic similar to what Miles had with John Coltrane, in that 'Trane was the 'fire', playing a million notes a second most of the time, while Miles would be the 'ice', weaving spare, elegant notes and passages in his inimitable style. Substitute Jimi for 'Trane and you know where I'm coming from. They were gonna have Tony Williams on drums at one time, but Tony wanted too much money, so it goes. So Miles upped his fee and time ran out.

Gil Evans, who knew both Jimi and Miles in particular, was probably the only figure who could have brought these two mega-egos together in a creative success story. I can almost hear Jimi exploding over Gil's Duke Ellington style orchestrations and horn sonorities, while Miles 'leans back' in his traditional position, hitting a few probing, exploratory stabs of trumpet into Hendrix's occasional silences. I'd have had two drummers; Tony Williams and Buddy Miles . I'm sure that Miles, like Jimi, could get down with Buddy's funky'fatback', while Tony could been slicin' up bits of time in his usual intricate fashion over Buddy's groove.

I've said enough, and shall end on that great Miles/'Trane anecdote, where 'Trane, after a gig, says to Miles, 'I can't seem to stop playing all these long choruses no matter how I try', (or words to that effect), to which the classic Miles reply was 'Try taking the MF'ing horn out of your mouth!' .[/quote]
Great post...Don't under estimate Jimi's ability to "hold back" though. Refering of course to your example of Coltrane playing a zillion notes. I think Jimi would have blasted when the time was right. But I think Jimi was very sensitive of not stepping on another cats toes. And that's anybody, not just Miles. Yeah, Williams was contacted to play drums but wanted too much bread. Jimi and Miles both should have said "Fuck him" and went and got someone else. At that stage, I know both of them knew other cats on drums that could have fit the bill. Even if he didn't have a "name". I like the having two drummers scenerio. That would have been cool, depending on the musical piece they were fucking with. In that case, then yeah, Buddy should have been one.

blackguitaristz said:

Great post...Don't under estimate Jimi's ability to "hold back" though. Refering of course to your example of Coltrane playing a zillion notes. I think Jimi would have blasted when the time was right. But I think Jimi was very sensitive of not stepping on another cats toes. And that's anybody, not just Miles. Yeah, Williams was contacted to play drums but wanted too much bread. Jimi and Miles both should have said "Fuck him" and went and got someone else. At that stage, I know both of them knew other cats on drums that could have fit the bill. Even if he didn't have a "name". I like the having two drummers scenerio. That would have been cool, depending on the musical piece they were fucking with. In that case, then yeah, Buddy should have been one.[/quote]

Miles said:

It would have been subconsciously. Miles was not a supporter of Ornette's and made a point of ridiculing him. Miles Davis's reaction to Ornette's NYC debut: "Hell, just listen to what he writes and how he plays. If you're talking psychologically, the man's all screwed up inside."

Part of this would have been professional jealousy. Ornette was becomig a darling of the critics and Miles didn't want to share the limelight. He felt Coltrane's interest in free jazz was a carrot Ornette dangled in Trane's face.

There's a book out that I want to cop.



Hopefully, it will adresses the point in jazz where these two innovators (along with Cecil Taylor) diverge or converge.

Agharta is incredible!! Matter of fact, all of Miles' electric era albums are beasts!! I am just sooo into Dark Magus and Live at Philharmonic right now!!! Agharta is a complete love letter to Jimi!! It is very well executed and way ahead of its time!

I need to get these.

rockwilder said:

Dark Magus is cool but I favor Agharta and Jack Johnson. Bitches' Brew was the first album I got by Miles and then Jack Johnson was next. And I was 13 at that time. I got Agharta when I was like 17 or so. Then I got In A Silent Way a little later. I didn't get around to Dark Magus untill like 6 years ago. I think that's why I'm kinda blase' about it. If I had bought it around my teens like the others, then I would probably be MORE stoked about it. But I have such a bond to the ones I got when I was a kid....

Loving this.

paligap said:

Now we gotta talk about Ms. Davis and Miles and Jimi.

blackguitaristz said:

I understand.DM is just deep,dark funk...like a Black Album. Agharta is like SOTT or Camille. It's nasty and all,but slightly more "conventional". I know that sounds crazy because it's anything but conventional. DM is a loose jam and Agharta and Pangaea are more....structured. This stuff makes me want to listen to it all at the same time. And I have my periods where I'm more into the stuff from '70-'74 then, I get into my '75 stuff and bust the doors down.

Funny thing, DM has the 3 guitarist set,but Agharta and Pangaea have the gnarliest guitar work! This stuff is simply unparalleled!

rockwilder said:

Yep. That's what I was saying in the thread, the guitars on Agaharta is bangin' and it's on the Hendrix tip. It's obvious that's what Miles was going for. I know that has a lot to do with me digging it so much.

I just picked up a slightly used copy of Dark Magus (Japanese import) for $11 ... haven't really had time to digest it all but absolutely love Agharta and Jack Johnson. Those, along with In A Silent Way and On The Corner are my favs.

Lovin' this thread poppin' up again and again.

I've really been into late 80s Miles and listening to the live box, but I'm puling the JJ box out for the next few days.

I hate to mention this again,but I purchased the Columbia cd's and I also purchased teh Sony DSD remasters of the same cd's. I have spent a small fortune on Miles. I would do it all again! The sony DSD versions make Agharta,Dark Magus,and pangaea all sound so much better. You hear things in the mixes that you don't hear on the american versions. I just ordered the DSD version of In Concert,too. Also, Jack Johnson bangs,as does The Cellar Door Sessions.The sound quality is incredible!! My next two Miles purchases will be The Complete Jack Johnson and On The Corner sessions.

BTW, does anyone have a copy of xavion's Burnin' Hot?? I had a cassette and cannot find it. I know the same folks who dig Miles,Mazarati,Prince,Fishbone,Jimi,24-7 Spyz,etc dig Xavion. If any brother can make me a copy,I'd really appreciate it.

Need to bump this up to the top so it don't get lost.

I've gone through that COMPLETE JJ and I really got some mad hate on Teo Macero. I know he had Miles' blessing but by editng tracks with older tracks, unrealesed material and questionable mixes he really fouled things up.

JJ is a "gotta have" if you diggin' into the development of rock guitar in jazz and funk. Johnny mac ain't black, but Miles put him on his jock specifically to cop from Jimi.

Next, I'm going into THE CELLAR DOOR box. Maybe I can find a deal on ON THE CORNER box soon.

PFunkjazz said:

Yep,..that's what I was sayin'...John could "evoke" Hendrix enough to get across what Miles was doing. He wanted folks to think of Hendrix.

blackguitaristz said:

No burh, JJ is completely different band from IASW/BB. no matter what, the latter two are still jazz records. The instrumentaion may be electric, but it's really jazz with a large ensemble. IASW is trancey ambience while BB is very abstract.

JJ breaks off as a new direction. Pushing into Jimi-Sly rock funk. Miles stripped the BB band down and led with a r&b guy, Michael Henderson, to hold it down. Granted Cobham, Herbie Chick and John McLaughlin are holdovers, but their mission is verdifferent tis time. Think of this as the prelude to OTC, which results in DARK MAGUS AGHARTA and PANGAEA. Especially after you dig into the CELLAR DOOR.