Stymie said:

It's all good homie.....I'm not a Jay Z superfan (as noted)...LOL...I just like people to have informed statements...I mean, wasn't you the one that judged the Mary J/Jay-Z tour without even seeing it?...Again, I would be having this debate if we were talking about anyone from any genre of music, not just hip hop...

Like I said, I find it a lot more real when people just come out and say they don't like hip hop, rap or whatever they are calling it these days...The thing is, artists can actually grow as performers...And I'm riding with you on Jay's earlier performances...He was boring as all hell...But the tour I saw was totally different and miles apart from his previous performances...And I'm able to judge him on a level playing field because I've seen the Camel twice at different stages of his career...

purplewisdom said:

Fiddy's crap. He hasn't sold well in the UK since Get Shot Fiddy Times Or Die Tryin' To Act (which I have), but most people - black AND white - actually hate him in the UK.

Graycap23 said:

Hmmmmm.....(No need to start trouble, huh?....lol)

murph said:

I call it like I see 'em.....

murph said:

Come on, now, why he gotta be the Camel.

SCNDLS said:

Like I said, I ride with the homie Nas more than Jay...But I respect that dude is far from the average "weed smoking" rapper...Whatever that means...LOL

I think American orgers are trying to apply American thinking to this. This isn't about race, it's about quality of music and said musician's current popularity, simple as that. Jay Z isn't big here. Last year he played two nights at the Albert Hall - 3000 seats. The second night didn't sell out, despite everyone knowing that both Beyonce and Chris Martin were going to be appearing with him. His albums haven't done well here in years.

Jay Z's recently signed a deal with Live Nation. They had to boost his global popularity as a live artist. Glastonbury has been a traditional crucible in propelling bands into the big leagues (Pulp headlined there in 1995 and subsequently went stratospheric with Common People), and the Saturday night headlining slot is a coveted one. Live Nation probably thought it was a great idea. The organisers probably thought it was a great idea. The public thought Mr Beyonce ...? Naaaaah. Now, had it been Beyonce, I bet you the reaction would have been different.

MrSoulpower said:

Mr. Bean is more talented and more relevant than Oasis.

Ottensen said:

Bullshit! The most the organisers pay an act is £250,000/$500,000. They wanted The Rolling Stones last year, but Jagger wanted £1 million. They said no.

murph said:

I've seen Jay on t.v. with a live band and have seen Mary on t.v. live enough to know that I would not enjoy seeing the show. I cannot see what is wrong with that.

Stymie said:

Nothing is wrong with wehat u just said.....u made a fair point without resorting to some of the shit I've read in this thread...Bravo

murph said:

Interesting. I could name several hip-hop acts thay I really dig and spend money on their material, but I would NEVER go and see live. I've seen the so- called best that Hip-hop has 2 offer and quite frankly, I was bored 2 tears. I dig seeing MUSICIANS and mofo who can sAng, not some dude walking back and forth with the same skill set as my 17 year old son. That sh*t does not move me in ANY way, shape or form. It's low grade entertainment in my opinion. I'm just not that DESPARATE 2 be entertained.

murph said:

But that's pretty much what I said in that other thread.

Shapeshifter said:

You make some strong points...And you know your shit...But as you know this is less about Jay Z (100, 000 tickets aren't nothing to sneeze at...) and more about overall dwindling ticket sells for festivals in the UK...Like I said, I'm not arguing over people not liking the idea of Jay Z or any other "urban" act headlining the Glastonbury...They have every right, and I see their vision..

It's the other voices that are using code words that kind of get at me...As for quality of music, that's just opinion isn't it?

Graycap23 said:

Hmmmm....It does not move YOU...Again, this goes back to you not liking hip hop in a live format...And I can dig that..For the most part you are correct....Just be careful sweeping everyone with the same brush...And I have to ask, which hip hop artists are you a fan of?

murph said:

Cee-lo
Outkast
Immortal Technic
Krs-1
Paris
LL
PE
Common
The Roots
Dr. Dre
Snoop (some)
Kanye (some)
Q-tip
Mos Def
.....2 name a few.

Fuck that camel.

namepeace said:

LOL, but if you say what you just said, YOU become part of the problem. Of course, rock fans should flock to see Jay-Z because...umm...yeah...well...because he's famous!

Just because this dude can't play a guitar, can't sing, wouldn't know a piano if it hit him on the face (again), doesn't mean that rock fans can't enjoy his "music".

I’m curious as to why they felt they needed a hip hop act and why that hip hop act is Jay-Z. I did catch Lupe Fiasco’s Spring Break performance with a full band and thought it was quite good.
[Edited 4/16/08 9:16am]

Timmy84 said:

Why u want 2 insult the camel? More like a turtle. Mr. Wizard the turtle.

Timmy84 said:

Awwwww, shit! Here comes the first representative of the NWO. . . Be afraid (for this thread). . . be VERY afraid.

Timmy84 said:

I don't see most of those aforementioned artists selling any more tickets faster than Jay Z for this festival either.

SCNDLS said:

Lol.....

Graycap23 said:

Turtle? Look like a turtle and camel gave birth to him.

But seriously how old is he? 50?

Graycap23 said:

Intersting...U a cool cat...From Paris to Mos Def...Cool....(For real)

Well, from a dude that has seen the BEST (I'm jacking your swagger homie...lol)in all its diversity from Radiohead, Prince, U2, and the Jacksons best tour (Triumph) to The Roots (Things Fall Apart tour in 1999...Very dope); PE (I've seen them at their height in 88-89...a great, energectic show), KRS-1 (again, in his prime...One of the best live MC's I've ever seen, breath control for days); and LL (Dude came out of a giant Radio in '89...That was a sick show...), I can say that rap shows can be a crap shoot...But a lot of the hip hop shows I've seen throughout my years have been some entertaining and enlightening gigs..

But if this is about the ol' "I would rather see people play instruments onstage" that's a different discussion that has less to do with the music and more to do with the culture and tradition of an artform...Dig it?

murph said:

I dig it.....as a musician myself, I just don't enjoy hip-hop from a live perspective. My music diet consist on Mint Condition, P-funk, Prince, Frank McComb, Martin Luther, Meshell.....all live, seeing hip-hop after that is well.....not a good look. (or sound)

Scorpion said:

That may be true but they can definitely be more entertaining than Camel Joe. The only reason his shows are hot is because he "has a live band", ya know?
[Edited 4/16/08 9:31am]

How is that racist? Why would they schedule a shit hop artist to play at a rock concert anyway? I realize that shit hop is all over on the pop side (which is why it refuses to die) but not everyone likes it, especially lovers of real music.

As far as racism goes, I have been to funk concerts with an all black audience and a shit hop artist might be scheduled to be an opening act. The audience has booed and would have throwed bricks, if they had some, because most lovers of funk hate shit hop also. Why? Because shit hop is a bunch of talentless nothing bullshit. Shit hop has already invaded everything else and they need to keep it the hell out of our shows because we need somewhere to escape the bullshit and hear shit that we like.

vainandy said:

Exactly. When REAL hip-hop groups like the Sugarhill Gang and Grandmaster Flash & the Furious 5 recounted how when they went out on stage to open for either Cameo, Rick James or the Bar-Kays, they'd get booed and heckled. It's not always cool to bring a rapper to a non-rap music audience be it pop, R&B or rock.

The promoters see it as a way of selling more tickets because that variety is supposed to be something for everyone. Well, hell, we're sick of the shit hop. It has completely taken over both the R&B and pop radio and the groups we are going to see in concert couldn't get any airplay if they made something new because of the shit hop. It's like looking at the damn enemy up on that damn stage before the group you want to see comes on. Also, just hearing the shit spoils the mood before the good groups come on. Also, I don't want to spend one penny to support shit hop in any kind of way and that includes concerts also.
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[Edited 4/16/08 10:12am]