woogiebear said:

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I COULD GO ON FOR DAYS & DAYS, BUT I GO BACK TO THE MPLS. SOUND MORE THAN THE P.I.S.S. SOUND!!!!!
Exactly. You can still hear the Mpls sound being used by artist today. Timberland is making a mint ripping it off and so are a lot of POP artist.
To me that shows influence. R Kelly is not in P's league.

laurarichardson said:

As a musical talent... I agree. As a producer of other people's talent... uhmm sorry. even people who were in the height of their careers, when collaborated wtih Prince... the effort fell flat. Madonna, Angie Stone, Gwen Stefani... all coloborrated... it just didnt' work. People who work with R Kelly, the effort is appreciated by the masses. Now go on and say the masses are whacked... but if *I* needed a producer, I would pick R Kelly... that is if I want to have a chance at a career. I bet Tamar wishes she could have worked with R kelly instead of Prince, just like Bonnie, Rosie Jill, and Mazarati.

prodigalfan said:

First of all, his collaboration with Madonna was GREAT!! It's a brilliant track that only the simple minded have problems with. I don't remember anyone not liking it at the time, and that includes people who didn't even like Prince. Also, Sheena Easton had her career revived by working with Prince. The Time and Sheila E wouldn't have had recording careers in the first place if not for his work with them. Martika hadn't been doing all that great after "Toy Soldiers", but Prince gave her hits. He also gave Tevin Campbell a top ten hit with "Round and Round" as well as an album track that everyone loved without knowing it was by Prince ("Shhh"). The bottom line is the best of P's productions would wipe the floor with the best of R's. End of.
[Edited 4/26/08 17:20pm]

sosgemini said:

Sos, its a mystery. That's not hard to solve once you open Pandora's Box. Are you ready to open that box? Once you open it, you'll find an overflated ego along with golddigging groupie hags looking for a hand out( no disrespect to those who supposedly had true intentions towards the artist,you know who you really are in the matrix.) All this unnecessary drama will detracts from the focus which should be the music.

BlaqueKnight said:

You've got a point.

midnightmover said:

Prince: Martika, Tevin Campbell, Sheila E, the Time

R. Kelly: Aaliyah "Debut Album", Isley Brothers "Contagious', Ja Rule & Ashanti, Usher "Same Girl" , Maxwell, Janet Jackson "Any Time, Any Place"
Charlie Wilson (of Gap Band) "Charlie, Last Name Wilson"

NOw I am not saying that I prefer hip hop to 80s Minneapolis sound... I don't.
But with the exception of Sheila E and the Time... both of which was a parody of the real thing, Prince... Prince production efforts do not compare to those of R. Kelly.

BTW, I didn't know R. Kelly worked with Janet Jackson on the "Janet" album, or Charlie Wilson... which was a GREAT comeback song, along with the resurrection of the Isley Brothers... which Prince was not able to accomplish with Chaka Khan, George Clinton, Mavis Staples, Larry Graham, ... Did I miss anyone?

prodigalfan said:

R. Kelly produced none of the janet album. He simply did a remix of one of the tracks. Those songs he did for Ja Rule and Usher were shit. You should keep quiet about them. Also remember, P produced Jill Jones's album which was great, and some seriously funky stuff for Mazarati (shame he didn't hire a decent singer for that project). He even managed to make great tracks with an awful singer like Appolonia. For that alone he deserves a medal.

R. has produced some good stuff, but nothing on a level with "Love Thy Will Be Done", "Shhhh", "A Love Bizarre", "Violet Blue", etc. Now I'm bored of this topic. I know krayzie is having a field day reading this thread.

U have got 2 be fucking kidding me!U must didn't have anything else better 2 come up with. All R. Kelly shit sounds the same & the lyrics get worst & worst,Hairbraider anyone?

midnightmover said:

oops, didn't know Kelly only did remix on the janet album. I think the work he did with Aaliyah is in the same level as the work he did with Sheila E...

The thing is, Love Bizzare, sounded like a Prince song... you can even hear him singing along with Sheila. same for the Time albums.
I like Jill Jones, but I don't think her album with him was that good at all... and love Mayte, but again, not a good effort.
As far as Usher, I saw that video along with the Maxwell video, both of those songs are great, very accessible to the masses... if I needed a producer I would want someone who is going to help me produce a song that appeals to the masses, not for his hardcore audience. Mazarati???

BTW, why did you skip Isley brothers, and Charlie Wilson.

I am sure they were very happy with their collaborations with R. Kelly

BlaqueKnight said:

I agree that for producing other acts, Prince does tend to just produce his acts exactly as he would himself (we all know he lays guide vocals that sound exactly like the real thing, Prince's version of Paula Abduls "u" being a good example), but as mentioned, he doesn't always do that (time, carmen electra), but your right in that more often or not, he does do that.


But actual production for themselves? No question Prince is better. More versitile, more creative and much more interesting. I think R Kelly is a great producer at times, but compared to Prince, no way is he better.

But again I see your point and agree about other acts being produced by them though.

thesexofit said:

I agree that for producing other acts, Prince does tend to just produce his acts exactly as he would himself (we all know he lays guide vocals that sound exactly like the real thing, Prince's version of Paula Abduls "u" being a good example), but as mentioned, he doesn't always do that (time, carmen electra), but your right in that more often or not, he does do that.


But actual production for themselves? No question Prince is better. More versitile, more creative and much more interesting. I think R Kelly is a great producer at times, but compared to Prince, no way is he better.

But again I see your point and agree about other acts being produced by them though.[/quote]


You have failed as a producer if the artist you are producing doesn't have their own sound. The very fact that nobody calls Prince to produce their artists is proof that people in the business are well aware of his flaws as a producer. The songs or material was not the question. Prince writes better music than R. Kelly - no questions on that. Prince is not a better producer, though. Only on Prince.org is this a debate. The REALITY of it is in the fact that labels aren't trying to get Prince to produce their acts.

BlaqueKnight said:

You have failed as a producer if the artist you are producing doesn't have their own sound. The very fact that nobody calls Prince to produce their artists is proof that people in the business are well aware of his flaws as a producer. The songs or material was not the question. Prince is not a better producer, though. Only on Prince.org is this a debate. The REALITY of it is in the fact that labels aren't trying to get Prince to produce their acts. [/quote]

Yes, I agree you cant be called much of a producer if you copy yourself for other acts (though as you also said, the song material is a different matter), but the reason why record execs dont want Prince anymore is simply because he is not very good anymore LOL. For a good 10 years, loads of artists wanted to work with Prince, and indeed did.

From about 1996, he, to me, he has lost it and is merely average most the time now. He had a good run of albums so Iam not mad or upset, but record companies see he has not had a big hit since "TMBGITW" and see he is not capable of producting hot new singles anymore. He is not cutting edge or interesting to pop music anymore, thats why record execs wont hire him. But that has nothing to do with his producer skills. He simply cant write good top 40 stuff anymore.

If R Kelly suddenly didn't have a hit for 5 years, record companies wouldn't bother calling him anymore either. But yet, he could be be producing amazing work regardless.

Of course the reality is R Kelly is still hot and Prince ain't. But that does not make R Kelly a better producer. Stock Aiken And Waterman were hugely sucessfull in the late 80's as producers, but they were shit producers though. I dont think R Kelly is a shit producer, but because he is popular and Prince ain't does not make him a better producer overall.

BlaqueKnight said:

I'll still have to disagree. Overall, Prince still edges Robert Kelly out. R kelly could never produce "3 chains of gold" "sexy mf" "lovesexy" "1999" "now" "dinner with delores" etc... Prince is an amazing producer at times. He needed a co-writer and maybe a co-producer at times (and indeed did have people like that), but for himself, for his own records, his body of work is enough to surpass R Kellys nack for being able to produce work for other artists. I like R Kelly, so iam not biased to Prince, and I own a couple of his albums, and whilst there are good songs on each of them, his production skills arn't that interesting.

Main selling point for me is versitity within Prince's own albums, something R Kelly doesn't have, and for you its being able to work well with other artists. So its just a matter of priorities. I still give it to Prince though, but I do think R kelly is a good producer though as an artist, he is burning out, and he needs a break LOL.

Actually, to slightly re-tract my previous post, R Kellys "R" album was good production wise, as were parts of "the chocolate factory" to name a few examples, so he is very capable of versitity on his own stuff. And Iam well aware of his work with other artists, so it is a closer call then I initially thought.

Give R Kelly a couple more years, and see if he can get himself out of this rut he has had since his "happy people" album. On their body of work for themselves, which is where it counts most for me, I give it to Prince. Close call though, and Mr Kelly remains interesting enough to watch for the future, whilst I cant see anything above average from Prince now. He is 50, let him be average LOL. He has enough work to be considered good/great to be proud of.

BlaqueKnight said:

prodigalfan said:

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Tamar- CD was not even releashed to the public so we really do not know how well it would have done. The few tracks I heard I liked in fact I think it was one of his better projects.

R Kelly works with people who are already established he has never produced a new act and continued to take them to the next level.

BlaqueKnight said:

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He was not producing to develop artist. He was producing to get more of his music out. I do not think people are not checking for him because every time you read an interview with a lot of top artist today. They all say they would like to work with him. I think Prince sees producing as a vehicle to get more music out and artist today are looking for a producer to work on all their projects and take them to next level. We can see from history that is something P is not interested in doing.

"versitity within Prince's own albums, something R Kelly doesn't have,
"

Exactly,
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thesexofit said:

laurarichardson said:

First off, artists don't usually hire producers, the label does. LABELS aren't checkin' for Prince's production. Many artists admire Prince's work because it is creative and prolific. His track record as a producer is the exact opposite of what's best for the artist, therefore he FAILS to be a good producer for anyone other than himself. Labels are in business to develop artists, not cater to one artist's ego. The business model for music is not like it was in the 80s.
"artist today are looking for a producer to work on all their projects and take them to next level"
That has ALWAYS been the case. That's what producers do. Its because that's not what Prince is interested in doing which makes him the lesser of the two choices between him and R. Kelly.

BlaqueKnight said:

BlaqueKnight said:

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"Its because that's not what Prince is interested in doing which makes him the lesser of the two choices between him and R. Kelly."

We will agree to disagree. It is about the quality of the music overall and the era of the super producer may be one of the things that is wrong with the industry. You could use Janet Jackson as an example. An artist who stayed with Jam and Lewis to long and at some point there was no new level they were able to take her to. In addtion, if P had not pissed off the record lables he might have some work thrown is way but we will never know what could have been.

midnightmover said:

Midnightmover! I thought you told me you were never gonna give Madge a compliment!

You've let me down

woogiebear said:

WILL YOU BE MY FRIEND?

bboy87 said:

WORD!!!!!

woogiebear said:

GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE!!!


Let that R. Kelly hate out!

laurarichardson said:

You're actually changing the subject. Its not about the quality of the music alone if you sacrifice the artist for the song. You CAN NOT be a good producer if you are not taking the artist to the next level. I'm sorry, but that is the exact OPPOSITE of what a good producer is. We are talking Artist production, not song production. Prince can make a much better song than R. Kelly with one hand tied behind him. That's not even at question. If you are screwing up the artist in favor of the song, you are in fact a poor producer because labels don't sign songs, they sign artists. I do agree that the "super-producer" has in fact hurt the music industry. The industry is based around numbers and averages, so the super producers come in and make songs that they think the public will like and then labels assign said songs to diferent artists.

bboy87 said:

Nah, I'm actually praising Prince for pimping her ass so brazenly and with such impeccable style. His track sounds nothing like Madonna. It sounds like Prince, which makes sense since he did the music, not her. The fact that she included it on her album, even though he's the star of the track, shows that he was the man. Madonna was willing to let Prince take over 5 minutes of her album, because she was honoured to be working with him, and to have such a daring and original track on what was otherwise a totally commercial pop album.