blackguitaristz said:

No burh, JJ is completely different band from IASW/BB. no matter what, the latter two are still jazz records. The instrumentaion may be electric, but it's really jazz with a large ensemble. IASW is trancey ambience while BB is very abstract.

JJ breaks off as a new direction. Pushing into Jimi-Sly rock funk. Miles stripped the BB band down and led with a r&b guy, Michael Henderson, to hold it down. Granted Cobham, Herbie Chick and John McLaughlin are holdovers, but their mission is verdifferent tis time. Think of this as the prelude to OTC, which results in DARK MAGUS AGHARTA and PANGAEA. Especially after you dig into the CELLAR DOOR.

blackguitaristz said:

No burh, JJ is completely different band from IASW/BB. no matter what, the latter two are still jazz records. The instrumentaion may be electric, but it's really jazz with a large ensemble. IASW is trancey ambience while BB is very abstract.

JJ breaks off as a new direction. Pushing into Jimi-Sly rock funk. Miles stripped the BB band down and led with a r&b guy, Michael Henderson, to hold it down. Granted Cobham, Herbie Chick and John McLaughlin are holdovers, but their mission is verdifferent tis time. Think of this as the prelude to OTC, which results in DARK MAGUS AGHARTA and PANGAEA. Especially after you dig into the CELLAR DOOR.

PFunkjazz said:

Uh, I don't know who said all that, but somehow u got my name on some shit that I didn't post. I NEVER said Bitches Brew wasn't my favorite Miles album. I don't even own Pangaea. Who's post was that u responded to PFunk Jazz cuz it sure isn't mine.

blackguitaristz said:

Ok, but it's your fault though. You were replying to a post that Miles put up, but you forgot to bracket the quote, so it looks like its your original statement, matter-of-fact, you listed it twice.

In bruh's defense he didn't say he didn't like BB, but it "wasn't his favorite" Miles record. He thinks it gets continued into the later Agharta/Pangaea phases, instead of a total break in a new direction with JJ.

Man, this is funny. My words seem to be going into someone else's mouth here. For the record, yes, I said BB wasn't my favourate Miles album - JJ and Agharta/Pangaea (which I count as sort of one record) I like more. I find some of the tracks on BB to be overlong and a little too harsh and abstract for my ears - they're their own thing really; more jazz than anything else for sure, especially if we're talking about the rhythms.

One thing BB has in common with JJ is that Miles has entered a new era in his trumpet playing. His tone on BB and JJ in particular is shining, golden and powerful. Not 'golden' as in Armstrong, but Miles, in BB especially, takes centre stage at times like he's preaching to the other instruments through his trumpet. On JJ, he's continuing the same kind of thing, only the context has changed from abstract, electric jazz to funky blues/jazz/rock, so Miles plays more blues.

As to a 'total break' between BB and JJ, I'd say Miles' whole career is one long track in some ways and if there's any real break in this period it's between JJ and the more 'Stockhausen meets funk' of 'On the Corner'. Miles seems to have nailed the BB/JJ sound into the ground live in the unrecorded (officially) 1971 concerts, before taking it to the next stage with Paul Buckmaster and co for 'Corner' (where he also debuts his wah wah trumpet style); a phase which goes right through to '75 with his concerts in Japan and the US later that year.

On a related issue, anybody here hip to the band 'Yo Miles!'? Led by fusion guitarist Henry Kaiser and trumpeter Wadada Leo Smith, they've released 3 or 4 double albums of 'covers' of the electric Miles stuff, plus a handful of their own originals in the same vein. They cover the whole first electric Miles era except 'Silent Way' and even do studio versions of some of the 'Agharta' thangs and obscure jams like 'Corrado' and 'Jabali', and even weave in a bit of the '80s jam 'One Phone Call' on one track .

It's quite cool stuff, tho they could do with getting a little more style of their own here and there. Other players on there include John Medeski on the first album (just called 'Yo Miles!') and on the later 'Sky Church' (I know I'm missing one in between these but I don't have that one ), they have guests like Zakir Hussain, Dave Creamer (actual Miles guitarist briefly), Tom Coster, Greg Osby, Mike Keneally and ROVA Sax Quartet.

Worth checking out if you can't get enough electric Miles .
[Edited 4/27/08 9:46am]

Pete Cosey has Children of Agharta

the OTC lineup from '73

Miles said:

Yeah, we got it figured out.

I'll just say there's a continuity in the JJ>>OTC rhythm section that makes this period "more listenable" than BB. Also Miles played trumpet through a wah-wah to sound more like a guitar, doubled and tripled guitar leads and used fewer keyboards and in a more disparate manner (slamming broken chords on his own).

Miles said:

yeah, there's a slew of post 80s Miles projects that try to tie stuff all together:

Various - FUSION FOR MILES

Cassandra Wilson - TRAVELING MILES

Dave Liebman - BACK ON THE CORNER

and Pete Cosey has Children of Agharta and Michael Henderson has Children On The Corner There are live recordings, but both seem to be concert or nightclub bookings.

blackguitaristz said:

Ok, but it's your fault though. You were replying to a post that Miles put up, but you forgot to bracket the quote, so it looks like its your original statement, matter-of-fact, you listed it twice.

In bruh's defense he didn't say he didn't like BB, but it "wasn't his favorite" Miles record. He thinks it gets continued into the later Agharta/Pangaea phases, instead of a total break in a new direction with JJ.

PFunkjazz said:

Man, this is funny. My words seem to be going into someone else's mouth here. For the record, yes, I said BB wasn't my favourate Miles album - JJ and Agharta/Pangaea (which I count as sort of one record) I like more. I find some of the tracks on BB to be overlong and a little too harsh and abstract for my ears - they're their own thing really; more jazz than anything else for sure, especially if we're talking about the rhythms.

One thing BB has in common with JJ is that Miles has entered a new era in his trumpet playing. His tone on BB and JJ in particular is shining, golden and powerful. Not 'golden' as in Armstrong, but Miles, in BB especially, takes centre stage at times like he's preaching to the other instruments through his trumpet. On JJ, he's continuing the same kind of thing, only the context has changed from abstract, electric jazz to funky blues/jazz/rock, so Miles plays more blues.

As to a 'total break' between BB and JJ, I'd say Miles' whole career is one long track in some ways and if there's any real break in this period it's between JJ and the more 'Stockhausen meets funk' of 'On the Corner'. Miles seems to have nailed the BB/JJ sound into the ground live in the unrecorded (officially) 1971 concerts, before taking it to the next stage with Paul Buckmaster and co for 'Corner' (where he also debuts his wah wah trumpet style); a phase which goes right through to '75 with his concerts in Japan and the US later that year.

On a related issue, anybody here hip to the band 'Yo Miles!'? Led by fusion guitarist Henry Kaiser and trumpeter Wadada Leo Smith, they've released 3 or 4 double albums of 'covers' of the electric Miles stuff, plus a handful of their own originals in the same vein. They cover the whole first electric Miles era except 'Silent Way' and even do studio versions of some of the 'Agharta' thangs and obscure jams like 'Corrado' and 'Jabali', and even weave in a bit of the '80s jam 'One Phone Call' on one track .

It's quite cool stuff, tho they could do with getting a little more style of their own here and there. Other players on there include John Medeski on the first album (just called 'Yo Miles!') and on the later 'Sky Church' (I know I'm missing one in between these but I don't have that one ), they have guests like Zakir Hussain, Dave Creamer (actual Miles guitarist briefly), Tom Coster, Greg Osby, Mike Keneally and ROVA Sax Quartet.

Worth checking out if you can't get enough electric Miles .
[Edited 4/27/08 9:46am]

PFunkjazz said:

Man, this is funny. My words seem to be going into someone else's mouth here. For the record, yes, I said BB wasn't my favourate Miles album - JJ and Agharta/Pangaea (which I count as sort of one record) I like more. I find some of the tracks on BB to be overlong and a little too harsh and abstract for my ears - they're their own thing really; more jazz than anything else for sure, especially if we're talking about the rhythms.

One thing BB has in common with JJ is that Miles has entered a new era in his trumpet playing. His tone on BB and JJ in particular is shining, golden and powerful. Not 'golden' as in Armstrong, but Miles, in BB especially, takes centre stage at times like he's preaching to the other instruments through his trumpet. On JJ, he's continuing the same kind of thing, only the context has changed from abstract, electric jazz to funky blues/jazz/rock, so Miles plays more blues.

As to a 'total break' between BB and JJ, I'd say Miles' whole career is one long track in some ways and if there's any real break in this period it's between JJ and the more 'Stockhausen meets funk' of 'On the Corner'. Miles seems to have nailed the BB/JJ sound into the ground live in the unrecorded (officially) 1971 concerts, before taking it to the next stage with Paul Buckmaster and co for 'Corner' (where he also debuts his wah wah trumpet style); a phase which goes right through to '75 with his concerts in Japan and the US later that year.

On a related issue, anybody here hip to the band 'Yo Miles!'? Led by fusion guitarist Henry Kaiser and trumpeter Wadada Leo Smith, they've released 3 or 4 double albums of 'covers' of the electric Miles stuff, plus a handful of their own originals in the same vein. They cover the whole first electric Miles era except 'Silent Way' and even do studio versions of some of the 'Agharta' thangs and obscure jams like 'Corrado' and 'Jabali', and even weave in a bit of the '80s jam 'One Phone Call' on one track .

It's quite cool stuff, tho they could do with getting a little more style of their own here and there. Other players on there include John Medeski on the first album (just called 'Yo Miles!') and on the later 'Sky Church' (I know I'm missing one in between these but I don't have that one ), they have guests like Zakir Hussain, Dave Creamer (actual Miles guitarist briefly), Tom Coster, Greg Osby, Mike Keneally and ROVA Sax Quartet.

Worth checking out if you can't get enough electric Miles .
[Edited 4/27/08 9:46am]

Various - FUSION FOR MILES

Cassandra Wilson - TRAVELING MILES

Dave Liebman - BACK ON THE CORNER

PFunkjazz said:

I actually have 'Travelling Miles' and have been grooving to it recently. 'Tis a cool record, especially for her takes on 'Run the Voodoo Down', 'Tutu' and 'Blue in Green', but then I dig Cassandra in general.

My magnifying glass tells me that 'Fusion for Miles' there has some cool guitar players on it; Eric Johnson, Mike Stern, Bill Frisell, Pat Martino, Bireli Lagrene, with a nice rhythm section + Mr Leibman too . All must pay homage to the mighty Miles D...